So apparently sub is dead?

[ornichi]

Checked the latest parses for mythic.


Apparently we can forget about playing sub this tier?

[AceofH]

is anyone surprised to see the 3 multidotting ranged classes at the top?

no? didn't think so.

on topic - mythics been out a week. to early to judge.

[ornichi]

How long has the raid been out on mythic? The people who parse mythic the first few weeks probably only play the top DPS specs, so this is not surprising. It is possible that you only have a small sample size.

I don't know if sub really is as bad as the parses say, but I think you should take these numbers with a grain of salt for the time being. There could be several explainations for this

Thank you. This reply actually gives me hope :3

[Varolyn]

Yes, sub is bad. Best trait was heavily nerfed, brings nothing over sin or outlaw in M+, and lost some of its niche aspects like shuriken combo. It’s bad in pvp as well.

[Danuel]

Bad dps is last problem of sub. Give me late WOD mechanics and rotation and I will gladly return to this spec.

[shoegazing]

Bad dps is last problem of sub. Give me late WOD mechanics and rotation and I will gladly return to this spec.

Say it louder please for the folks in the back!

I mained Subtlety since 2004 in every patch regardless of tuning. Bad numbers are not even close to being as big a problem as the boring garbage pruned one dimensional gameplay and hamfisted nu-Rogue aesthetics.

Subtlety doesn't even deserve to be called a Rogue anymore. It has absolutely nothing in common with the absolute masterpiece I loved for so long.

[mojusk]

so you take very early logs from 1 mythic boss, and conclude that 1 spec is dogshit and 3 range dot classes are OP?....
your way of thinking is flawed as fuck.
do just a little more research and educate yourself more on what all the data actually means, before you try to be smart.
theres dumb people, and then theres dumb people who think they know what theyre talking about, but they actually dont know shit. the latter is infuriating to witness, because they spread false information.

if you think that the logs picture you copy pasted is an accurate representaion of current balance, youre a absolute fucking moron.

Infracted.

[Restors]

is anyone surprised to see the 3 multidotting ranged classes at the top?

no? didn't think so.

on topic - mythics been out a week. to early to judge.

yeah, im actually surprised that shadow priests are this good in this tier. And its bout time they finally got some love.

[cparle87]

yeah, im actually surprised that shadow priests are this good in this tier. And its bout time they finally got some love.

Weren't they very strong in Emerald Nightmare when they had that Surrender to Madness talent which made them do insane damage for a period of time before they self-destructed?

[Micronetic]

How is Outlaw nowadays? Just started playing it and I really like it.

[McFuu]

Bad dps is last problem of sub. Give me late WOD mechanics and rotation and I will gladly return to this spec.

For as maligned as WoD was, class design was just... next level. All the rogue specs I liked, gladiator warrior... it was just fun to play, too bad there wasn't much to do.

[lolpve]

For as maligned as WoD was, class design was just... next level. All the rogue specs I liked, gladiator warrior... it was just fun to play, too bad there wasn't much to do.

Combat was jokes in WoD. Literally mashing sinister strike until red buff 9 second kidney shot free kill. Other than that, yes class design was pretty good although inferior to some earlier expansions.

[ornichi]

so you take very early logs from 1 mythic boss, and conclude that 1 spec is dogshit and 3 range dot classes are OP?....
your way of thinking is flawed as fuck.
do just a little more research and educate yourself more on what all the data actually means, before you try to be smart.
theres dumb people, and then theres dumb people who think they know what theyre talking about, but they actually dont know shit. the latter is infuriating to witness, because they spread false information.

if you think that the logs picture you copy pasted is an accurate representaion of current balance, youre a absolute fucking moron.

Do you even try to understand the reason of the post be4 unloading a pile of shit that you call "reply"?

1) Statements. I never concluded anything, especially about ranged classes. My post was written in an interrogative tone.
2) Data checking. The logs i've reposted were not taken from one boss. It was an average for all of BoD on 90+ percentile for the time of publication. But be4 shitposting, you could check all other fights (hc or myth, each percentile above 50%), there is no single fight Sub is on top of meters.
3) Research. I did enough research to publish my concerns on this topic, from warcraftlogs to bloodmallet trait perfomance and stacking calculations as well as checking raider.io data daily.
4) Insulting. Do you speak to all people like that? Do you think you are entitled or that your opinion matters? Do you seriuosly find it justified to call strangers "morons" and "dumb" just because your opinion on the subject is different? I am not your friend to talk to me like that and I feel sorry for your parents, who raised such a toxic and ill-mannered schmuck.

[Alcsaar]

Weren't they very strong in Emerald Nightmare when they had that Surrender to Madness talent which made them do insane damage for a period of time before they self-destructed?

IDK that a niche talent for one fight made them "good". It just made them op for one fight and dogshit for basically everything else, while also having to play a really poorly designed talent.

[dkey89]

Guess sub needs to be reworked again. Man I hate that they design sub around a gimmick and the moment that gimmick is fun they nerf it or remove it.

[Naiattavain]

blizzard really pisses me off.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

So far has the lowest raid representation as well in mythic, heroic and normal. By a lot.

[Demeia]

Combat was jokes in WoD. Literally mashing sinister strike until red buff 9 second kidney shot free kill. Other than that, yes class design was pretty good although inferior to some earlier expansions.

To be fair, they had to do some serious work on rogues for legion. Now, obviously, what they did did not please everyone but they did do quite a bit for rogues.

[Coldkil]

Just for updating, here's the current mythic parses scores.



Clearly the fights promote cleaving a lot, plus Outlaw has the sword/ring combo that gives an additional edge over our other specs. Sub being basically all about burst and single target gets gutted. Assasination is still strong but is less effective with cleaving.

[therealstegblob]

Say it louder please for the folks in the back!

I mained Subtlety since 2004 in every patch regardless of tuning. Bad numbers are not even close to being as big a problem as the boring garbage pruned one dimensional gameplay and hamfisted nu-Rogue aesthetics.

Subtlety doesn't even deserve to be called a Rogue anymore. It has absolutely nothing in common with the absolute masterpiece I loved for so long.

Shoegazing made a good post?

?????

Huh?