Anthem: Bioware's next Mass Effect-like IP

[Bugg]

I don't know if this same thing applied. SWTOR has been out for a LONG time. And IMHO it's still one of the best F2P story RPGs on the market. You just have to recognize that all you're getting is the single-player story, and not any of the multiplayer stuff like PVP, dungeons, raids, auction house, etc. Not only that, but SWTOR is an MMORPG with a LOT of dev time required to support it.

Regarding the SWTOR story:
From Wikipedia: "An October 2008 preview noted some of the 12 full-time writers had been working on The Old Republic for more than two years at that point."
They had at that time many veteran and gifted SF writers (Drew Karpyshyn and others).
Someone in the management of the game decided that the Story should be good. And resources were allocated, able people found and the result speaks for itself 10 years later.

Today we have a different reality.

[Thelyron]

Speculation: The game world is an allusion to it being a game world. The shaper gods (programmers) created the world using the anthem (code). The code occasionally freaks out and creates unforseen events and things (bugs). One npc even refers to things going wrong as "glitching out".

[Gorsameth]

Well at least from earlier comments from devs they was upfront(as if it maters) the game was not going to be story focused. Feels as if it is just like destiny that the devs are more focused on the end game loop. I feel BW and others forget that a good portion of what kept destiny fanbase even if hidden behind text was what the story the previous writer left leaving many hoping on potential. D2 ended up getting heavily criticized on lack of story with the bit that was put in various scannables in the game still limited in comparison to the overall. Still feeling from the trial that the game is in the same boat as D2 that it will get better later on and little will be missed to wait for a more polished product. Than again that is my view with WoW now.

But they didn't focus on the end game loop. Because the one that exists won't keep people entertained past the first day.

Your going to endlessly run dungeons and freeroam but for what? I'm not seeing the carrot that keeps people playing.

[Lindon]

Regarding the SWTOR story:
From Wikipedia: "An October 2008 preview noted some of the 12 full-time writers had been working on The Old Republic for more than two years at that point."
They had at that time many veteran and gifted SF writers (Drew Karpyshyn and others).
Someone in the management of the game decided that the Story should be good. And resources were allocated, able people found and the result speaks for itself 10 years later.

Today we have a different reality.

Yeah, now they don't tunnelvision the story aspect of games anymore.

instead of going full ham on the story they put quite alot of time into making the gameplay fun, which is something that Bioware is notoriously bad at. Just look at SWTOR and mass effect. The overall gamplay in those games are quite bad but they make up for it in an overall good story. The same thing is happening with Anthem but the other way around. They've put more effort in making the gameplay extremely fun.

The story of Anthem is not some masterpiece nor is it bad, I'd place it just below "great".
The story is a little rushed, and like in Destiny 1 some lore tidbits are placed in journal logs that you find in the world. Which in turn makes it harder to understand subjects that are mentioned in the game unless you free up some time and read them (Something I guess a lot of players won't do).

But they didn't focus on the end game loop. Because the one that exists won't keep people entertained past the first day.

Your going to endlessly run dungeons and freeroam but for what? I'm not seeing the carrot that keeps people playing.

I agree, the end game content that exists in the game right now won't be enough to engage players for a large stretch of time. The good thing is though that starting next month they will start what they call "Act 1" which is a form of content patch/DLC. Some things it will add is one additional stronghold, cataclysms and changes to the open world.

Exactly how their content drops will pan out is TBD at this moment since we hardly know anything about what's to come.

[Gaidax]

But they didn't focus on the end game loop. Because the one that exists won't keep people entertained past the first day.

Your going to endlessly run dungeons and freeroam but for what? I'm not seeing the carrot that keeps people playing.

This is a genuine issue, that's why this game will live or die depending on what Bioware puts in in March.

[SirCowdog]

The entire state of the gaming industry as a whole and the acceptance of the dimwitted of said practices is downright depressing.

Well....having seen the rate at which cosmetics can be earned just by playing the game(and NOT spending real money), I'd have to say that your argument doesn't really apply very well to Anthem.

Look, I'm pretty critical. But I'm also fair when I see the evidence. Will some people decide to pay real money for cosmetics instead of earning them? Certainly. Is that actually hurting the game? I highly doubt it.

I get the principle of what you're saying. I really do. But Anthem doesn't appear to be following that stereotype.....unless you know something the rest of us don't have access to?

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Regarding the SWTOR story:
From Wikipedia: "An October 2008 preview noted some of the 12 full-time writers had been working on The Old Republic for more than two years at that point."
They had at that time many veteran and gifted SF writers (Drew Karpyshyn and others).
Someone in the management of the game decided that the Story should be good. And resources were allocated, able people found and the result speaks for itself 10 years later.

Today we have a different reality.

Eh...does EVERY title from the same studio have to follow the same mold. SWTOR was sold largely based on its story. Anthem appears to be sold based largely on its gameplay. One is an RPG, the other is a looter-shooter with some rpg elements(stats, builds, etc) but no actual roleplaying choices that I'm aware of.

Again, I don't think the comparison between the two that you're using is fair. Was Anthem ever sold to us as being PRIMARILY a heavily story-driven game where your choices would influence the outcome? Or just that it would have a story?

This honestly sounds more like you wanted something they weren't selling. Could Anthem have been overall better if they'd hired 12 high-end writers? Probably. I think most games could benefit from such an injection of creative writing. I just don't think that's what they set out to do, though. Maybe I'm wrong?

[Gaidax]

Really two issues now for otherwise decent experience:

1. Very small selection of things to do once story is done - technically you do not run out of stuff, it's just it's all super repetitive - events feed from a very limited pool of things to do - it's really a bunch of "stand in the circle", "bring glowy thing to the sparkly noisy thing" and "kill the bad guy" glued together making a contract where every objective you are swarmed by Scars/Dominion/Elementals/Scorpions.

Honestly it's similar to ME, but I think in ME it was much nicer because you had more pressure on you and especially such big profile towering enemies like Atlas, Brutes, Banshees or some super cool ones like Phantoms, which were very distinct from the crowd and felt special. Something like Atlas is really missing - a big ass mech that slowly and inevitably closes in onto your positions, Titans and Lumiaries are just not that really, because they aren't really moving anywhere. Phantom blocking your abilities, stealthing and sneaking in for one hit K.O. is also a really cool type of enemy that is just not there.

There is this melee kind of enemy with shield and armor used by Dominion, that's sort of nice, but rest is meat because you can just unload LMG or Whirlwind into them and then one shot with Ranger combo.


2. Loading screens, especially with this objective leash thing and respawns. Bioware really needs to figure something out there, because it's ridiculous at times. I don't know if it's because of consoles or other reason, but it's simply excessive.

[Bugg]

Again, I don't think the comparison between the two that you're using is fair. Was Anthem ever sold to us as being PRIMARILY a heavily story-driven game where your choices would influence the outcome? Or just that it would have a story?

This honestly sounds more like you wanted something they weren't selling. Could Anthem have been overall better if they'd hired 12 high-end writers? Probably. I think most games could benefit from such an injection of creative writing. I just don't think that's what they set out to do, though. Maybe I'm wrong?

Sorry, I'm not criticizing Anthem, that was not my point. I only played the Demo that was available in the past. Not currently playing it and no plans to buy it yet.

My point was: If someone with decision power from a software (game) company wants something done, the thing will be done at accordingly.

[Shiny212]

Well....having seen the rate at which cosmetics can be earned just by playing the game(and NOT spending real money), I'd have to say that your argument doesn't really apply very well to Anthem.

Look, I'm pretty critical. But I'm also fair when I see the evidence. Will some people decide to pay real money for cosmetics instead of earning them? Certainly. Is that actually hurting the game? I highly doubt it.

I get the principle of what you're saying. I really do. But Anthem doesn't appear to be following that stereotype.....unless you know something the rest of us don't have access to?

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Eh...does EVERY title from the same studio have to follow the same mold. SWTOR was sold largely based on its story. Anthem appears to be sold based largely on its gameplay. One is an RPG, the other is a looter-shooter with some rpg elements(stats, builds, etc) but no actual roleplaying choices that I'm aware of.

Again, I don't think the comparison between the two that you're using is fair. Was Anthem ever sold to us as being PRIMARILY a heavily story-driven game where your choices would influence the outcome? Or just that it would have a story?

This honestly sounds more like you wanted something they weren't selling. Could Anthem have been overall better if they'd hired 12 high-end writers? Probably. I think most games could benefit from such an injection of creative writing. I just don't think that's what they set out to do, though. Maybe I'm wrong?

Bioware devs did at multiple times state that we could expect the same bioware goodness in terms of story and characters as we've come to expect, even though it's a multiplayer game. As a matter of fact they took great care to address this to alleviate people's fears that the narrative would take a backseat. It's very clear that it does, but they sure didn't tell us that.

I played the demo but haven't played the real game yet, and in my eyes the most offputting thing is the contrived and horrible way they chose to make your "hub" where basically all story interaction occurs as I understand it. Very, slowly, moving around the same area over and over to speak to NPCs, major disconnect between what happens outside in your javelin and the hub in 1st person. Looks like a chore; I used to really enjoy walking around the normandy.

[Lindon]

Bioware devs did at multiple times state that we could expect the same bioware goodness in terms of story and characters as we've come to expect, even though it's a multiplayer game. As a matter of fact they took great care to address this to alleviate people's fears that the narrative would take a backseat. It's very clear that it does, but they sure didn't tell us that.

I played the demo but haven't played the real game yet, and in my eyes the most offputting thing is the contrived and horrible way they chose to make your "hub" where basically all story interaction occurs as I understand it. Very, slowly, moving around the same area over and over to speak to NPCs, major disconnect between what happens outside in your javelin and the hub in 1st person. Looks like a chore; I used to really enjoy walking around the normandy.

Source?

Everything I've ever read and everything I can find only mentions people expressing conserns regarding storytelling in a multiplayer setting and Bioware retorting that the've "got a solution for it".

Edit:
I don't really understand your argument that you liked walking around the Normandy but running around in Fort Tarsis is somewhow different/worse? They are the exact same thing. Both are a relatively small space filled with NPCs you can interact with that provides quests and/or lore.
The "disconnect in Mass Effect regarding the normandy and the outside should be even bigger than what it is in Anthem considering it's litterally the end days outside the Normandy whilst everything is "normal" inside the ship.

[apelsinjuice]

The story is pretty meh imo, walking around the city talking with npcs, cutscenes and then missions out in the world that often feels disconnected from the story, just the same kill hordes of scars/dominion and "defend this point" or "get x of this to point a"

but for me it does not really matter in a looter shooter as long as the gameplay and endgame grind is fun

[Shiny212]

Source?

Everything I've ever read and everything I can find only mentions people expressing conserns regarding storytelling in a multiplayer setting and Bioware retorting that the've "got a solution for it".

Edit:
I don't really understand your argument that you liked walking around the Normandy but running around in Fort Tarsis is somewhow different/worse? They are the exact same thing. Both are a relatively small space filled with NPCs you can interact with that provides quests and/or lore.
The "disconnect in Mass Effect regarding the normandy and the outside should be even bigger than what it is in Anthem considering it's litterally the end days outside the Normandy whilst everything is "normal" inside the ship.

Watch the youtube announce video with all the devs talking. Game director and casey hudson both try to ease our fears and promise bioware level storytelling.

Why don't you do a poll and see if anyone on gods green earth agrees with that. I'd bet a fortune that 99% of people consider running around the normandy interacting with the crew a bzillion times more stimulating than Anthem's Tarsis.

I don't claim to know exactly why, but I suspect a number of things:

1: It's 1st person, I don't know why, to save dev time? It makes no sense if they want you to feel like you are the character and not just the robot.
2: Normandy wasn't the only place you could walk around and interact with people in ME
3: Shepard more or less looks the same in a mission and on the ship unless you choose to wear a face covering helmet at all times.
4: The narrative in Anthem could be substantially worse. From what I saw in the demo it wasn't great, I didn't feel very invested and there was a great lack of urgency or any real drive to the plot.

[jstnw89]

I share the same feeling as shiny212.. Can't really put my finger on the why but maybe because it was populated by all your companions and crew members that I actually cared about and enjoyed talking to..

Fort Tarsis is full of random npcs strewn around that talk about random stuff (that isn't even necessarily relevant to anything about the world or story).. you get the two dialogue options but every conversation is just the stupid hollywood witty humor shit that carried over from Andromeda. Granted ME had it's cringe humor but it was a good type of cringe (to me) whereas this stuff falls flat, "sexy danger.. SEXY DANGER" .. "we're best friends right!! I'm your friend!! right?!!" .. "i'm safety guy in the fort.. random cables should be outlawed". These aren't companions.. for the most part most of them aren't accompanying you and fighting side by side in the missions.. Nothing motivated me to give a shit about being inside this space of the game and if anything it caused me to be resentful that it was a bunch of shitty loads preventing me from doing the best part of Anthem, actually playing it.

The Normandy (even if just a galaxy map and then load screen) accompanied the player throughout the story, world to world, the chase for Saren, it's destruction at the beginning of 2, suicide mission, etc etc.. Things actually happen within it and to it throughout. It was the refuge after every mission to catch up with all of the people you grow close to throughout each game.. it was given to the main character by basically their pseudo father figure

[Gorsameth]

The story is pretty meh imo, walking around the city talking with npcs, cutscenes and then missions out in the world that often feels disconnected from the story, just the same kill hordes of scars/dominion and "defend this point" or "get x of this to point a"

but for me it does not really matter in a looter shooter as long as the gameplay and endgame grind is fun

The Normandy was smaller, had less empty space, characters were closer together and you could run.

The fact you can't run in town in Anthem is a big negative to the experience. Yes they added 'sprint' in live compared to the demo. But the increase in speed is negligible.

[D3athsting]

Your GPU might be toast...

Try doing a fresh driver install with dry and see if the problem persists

Did a fresh driver install and nothing changed, in the end it turned out to be depth effects for wow, at none/low those artifacts disappear completely while can be seen at "good" and more evident and "high", switching from dx12 to dx11 doesn't change anything

[SirCowdog]

I used to really enjoy walking around the normandy.

Wait...so walking around the normandy is ok, but walking around Fort Tarsis isn't? o_O

In the article by Kotaku, they even specifically say "...the game’s developers say there won’t be any sort of branching narrative the way there is in Dragon Age and Mass Effect."

Having a good story doesn't necessarily mean it has to be presented in the exact same way.

I know it might sound like I'm defending Bioware on this, but I'm just trying to be objective. Maybe Anthem's story presentation will fall flat on its face. I don't know. I haven't bought the game yet because I'm waiting for more bug fixes, more features, and more content. Maybe someone who's already cracked out on the story missions and completed everything that's available can chime in on this and clear the air? That'd do us all some good, I think.

[Baconeggcheese]

And with a "games-as-a-service" model like Anthem where there's a bunch of planned releases and updates at regular intervals, it encourages you to stay subbed.

All in all, though, the more that I think about it, the more it just seems like giving the consumer more options. I mean, it would take ~4 months to equal the cost of the full priced game. How many games last you 4 months? The access to other games by the publisher is just extra incentive, I guess.

Part of me still REALLY wants to find the trick here. But either I'm not smart enough or it's actually not a ripoff like so much of EA's other business models.

Its actually even better because if you intend on being subscribed for a long time its 99$ for the year which is 8.25 a month.

Subscription services like these are incredible for the consumer as long as you're taking advantage of them. They make their money on people like me who have prime but are not using it like at all besides my monthly twitch (family uses it to get 10% off at the grocery store though so I keep it).

That's the whole point, though: To play different builds and classes, making a slightly different experience each time based on how the class interacts with the random tilesets.

The tilesets are absolutely not what you interact with in diablo, its the monsters. There's no time you start up a greater rift and go "SWEET, I GOT X MAP WOO!". You're just entirely looking for what random monsters you're fighting hoping for the easiest thing so you can push higher. And if you push really high you eventually get to a point where you're just herding groups of mobs and smashing them in the face in a single spot for most of the map.

Its not variety that makes it enjoyable there, its the player enjoying what buttons they get to press and the loot grind. Which again, is what this game is offering. Warframes an extreme example of this, if you don't like it within maybe the first hour, you aren't going to like it because nothing meaningfully changes.

I said something similar in another reply to someone else, but with only 4 javelins even a randomized dungeon or map would get tired real fast. But I really hope this is something Bioware is looking into for later on down the road, when there are more javelins, more weapons, more components, etc etc. With more build variety a procedural area could bring a lot of value to the game.

Really depends on what kind of player you are, almost the entirety of my play time on games tends to be on 1 class. The Javs have a handful of different abilities and I've yet to experience how masterwork affixes shake that up. The guns are also pretty unique in how they each feel, which adds a little general variety since not every Jav uses or favors an individual one.

If one is the type of wow player who just constantly rolls new alts and never really plays at end game then yeah I guess there's not a ton to chew on there. But for me right now interceptor feels so damned good to play I can't imagine touching anything else anyway.

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The fact you can't run in town in Anthem is a big negative to the experience. Yes they added 'sprint' in live compared to the demo. But the increase in speed is negligible.

That's not true at all, walking in the demo felt like you were trying to run underwater. Sprinting on live feels like you're actually moving at a brisk and reasonable pace.

The only thing that's off about it to me is that there's an option to walk at all. I can't imagine any reason why you'd ever not want to be at sprint speed.

[Gaidax]

I don't really understand your argument that you liked walking around the Normandy but running around in Fort Tarsis is somewhow different/worse? They are the exact same thing. Both are a relatively small space filled with NPCs you can interact with that provides quests and/or lore.
The "disconnect in Mass Effect regarding the normandy and the outside should be even bigger than what it is in Anthem considering it's litterally the end days outside the Normandy whilst everything is "normal" inside the ship.

I think ME overall did it better because you were not just locked into your tiny prison with a bunch of NPCs, but also had a lot of places of interest outside. Ship crew members did not just appear out of thin air - we had whole missions to recruit them, fight alongside them and shag them if that's your cup of tea. I guess the limitation is that Anthem is not really single player there, but that sounds more like excuse to me, because during story they did quite a bit of stuff that sort of assumed you were the only guy there.

IMO being glued to Fort Tarsis is a mistake on Bioware part, they should have added another couple of settlements. I think after such places like Citadel or even smaller hubs in various ME games, Tarsis feels seriously cramped.

[SirCowdog]

I share the same feeling as shiny212.. Can't really put my finger on the why but maybe because it was populated by all your companions and crew members that I actually cared about and enjoyed talking to..

Can I pose a theory to you? It's very likely because many of those crew-members would go with you on missions. And even the ones that didn't often had important roles on missions.

You got to talk to them on the Normandy, then take them with you and see them in action, often with fighting styles or abilities that were in line with their personality. Combat chatter and warcries, etc fleshed this out even more. Hell, even Destiny had the Ghost that followed you around.

This all made each character distinct. More real. More present.

But in Anthem it's all passive. You get a voice on you radio, and that's about it. This is because Anthem isn't a single-player game. Your teammates are other players. Maybe Bioware should have considered more NPC companions to go along with you in solo missions? I don't know. That's a drawback of the design decision they made to focus on the multiplayer aspects, I guess.

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The tilesets are absolutely not what you interact with in diablo, its the monsters. There's no time you start up a greater rift and go "SWEET, I GOT X MAP WOO!". You're just entirely looking for what random monsters you're fighting hoping for the easiest thing so you can push higher. And if you push really high you eventually get to a point where you're just herding groups of mobs and smashing them in the face in a single spot for most of the map.

I guess when I said "tilesets" I meant everything that comes along with them. The monster types and their position. The dynamic of all that contrasting with your build.

Its not variety that makes it enjoyable there, its the player enjoying what buttons they get to press and the loot grind. Which again, is what this game is offering. Warframes an extreme example of this, if you don't like it within maybe the first hour, you aren't going to like it because nothing meaningfully changes.

But that variety is what draws players in. Some people like playing barb, others go for Sorc, or monk. And while Diablo3 only really has 1 or 2 SUPER effective builds within each class, there is more variation when you're not pushing for top 100 GR ranking. Diablo 3 has 7 classes, and Warframe has.....a lot(I don't know the exact number). And Diablo has the advantage of seasonal play.

Really all I'm saying is that Anthem is running thin right now. Only 4 javelins and only 3 strongholds is not much, even with 6 difficulties to choose from. Even with a LOT of build diversity, that content is going to wear out in a hurry.

What I think will be the true indication of where Anthem is going is what we see the game focus on in the following months. If we see more strongholds, solo modes, new areas or other game mode, then everything is cool. But if all we see are a plethora of cosmetics without anything of real substance, I'd say the game is in trouble.

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IMO being glued to Fort Tarsis is a mistake on Bioware part, they should have added another couple of settlements. I think after such places like Citadel or even smaller hubs in various ME games, Tarsis feels seriously cramped.

Doesn't open play have those tallboy mecha-dinosaur things walking around that are supposed to be bases of operation?

[infinitemeridian]

So it looks to be about 5 hours of story "content", then you just grind missions until the end of time? How is this game worth $60 again? Most FTP games have more than this.