The alliances attack on dazar'alor failed in their intent

[Mardux]

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Are you bulshitting now or just stupid? Zandalari provided Horde with ports, military bases, gear, supplies, staging areas for attacks and in later patches openly joined forces to attack Boralus and do Incursions. What about that is not an open act of war that makes them enemies of the Alliance? Plus we can go deeper and remeber how they tried adn failed to take over the world twice but that might be written off as "history" (despite happening not so long ago honestly.) But by all means go preach about "salty humans" and poor wittle Zandalari.

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Agreed. Teldrassil was pure Horde lore vehicle and i gonna bet my hat and pants that "kaldorei dark rangers" will be now HUGE part of the plot when Shadowlands patch hits probably as Sylvanas new "army" but whole "Army of the Dark Moon" will stay just a cosmetic crap with a serious possibility of turning Tyrande "evil" like Yrel. Plus Delaryn who was first good new character in stale pool of Night Elven hero cast got first sassily murdered by Bitch Queen and later became her adoring fan to completely take away ANY inspiration that Teldrassil could give us.

Providing ports and supplies is an open act of war, but kidnapping a member of a foreign nation's royal family isn't. Obviously.

[VladlTutushkin]

Well maybe you see it like that. In game it looks more like Forsaken and Sylvanas personal gloryfest where night elfs portrayed as jobbers to the point where they starting jobbing for the enemy after they die and come back. It is like pure rain of feces and piss raining like a downpour atop the kaldorei already VERY damaged race (Cata was not as humiliating but still very painful) and then followed with a big dirty wallop of undead in our face. While yes Saurfang sulks in the background and gets two cinematics while Tyrande gets shitty cutscene and i REALLY feel that "Yrel second coming" vibes here. Aka Lightbound = "Elunebound"? You see what i mean you dont have extra chromosomes. So in the end despite showing Sylvanas in bad light it also completely crushed night elfs to the point of no return (maybe). Omly hope that is left is MAYBE if Sylvanas dies or Horde gets completely brutalized by the Kalimdore warfare we can have a "butwe came back!" vibe. But if they follow on "Red Kalimdore , Blue EK" and stuff night elfs to Gilneas or just leave them without a capital that will end the Night Elfs as a race and leave "Cheap copy of High Elfs".
P.S. Lets bet against one another Dickmann? I bet that she will NOT betray Sylvanas in any condition or form and be her loayl crony with Sira. What say you?

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Sure thing, but Zandalari were ALREADY at war with Alliance (after two attempts of taking over the world). And orchestrator of that war was Zul who was on the same boat with Talanji. So it wasnt an unprovoked attack.

[Super Dickmann]

Well maybe you see it like that. In game it looks more like Forsaken and Sylvanas personal gloryfest where night elfs portrayed as jobbers to the point where they starting jobbing for the enemy after they die and come back. It is like pure rain of feces and piss raining like a downpour atop the kaldorei already VERY damaged race (Cata was not as humiliating but still very painful) and then followed with a big dirty wallop of undead in our face. While yes Saurfang sulks in the background and gets two cinematics while Tyrande gets shitty cutscene and i REALLY feel that "Yrel second coming" vibes here. Aka Lightbound = "Elunebound"? You see what i mean you dont have extra chromosomes. So in the end despite showing Sylvanas in bad light it also completely crushed night elfs to the point of no return (maybe). Omly hope that is left is MAYBE if Sylvanas dies or Horde gets completely brutalized by the Kalimdore warfare we can have a "butwe came back!" vibe. But if they follow on "Red Kalimdore , Blue EK" and stuff night elfs to Gilneas or just leave them without a capital that will end the Night Elfs as a race and leave "Cheap copy of High Elfs".

It depends on which version you follow. In the in-game version, the Horde, not so much the forsaken since they're barely there, come across as steamrolling. But in the supplemental novellas, there's a fuck ton of effort put in by Saurfang and Sylvanas to distract the Alliance fleet to make them go elsewhere, ensure that only Malfurion and the home guard, not the bulk of the night elves are there and they attain an eight to one advantage. Despite this, the Horde suffer more casualties than the Alliance and it's mentioned that were Tyrande there, the Horde would surely lose. Malf singlehanded almost wins the fight for the night elves. They get a fairly decent shake there.

As for the tree itself, the Night elves lose land and get fucked over, but as a result of this, they recommit to themes that have been lost since WC3 and win part of their land back. Compared to their complete gutting on a thematic or uniqueness level for the entirety of WoW's time span, it's a godsend. Mind, I agree that it's ultimately hollow because at the end of this Tyrande will forgive Saurfang and hug it out with him and the Horde and the night elves will be teaming up with Calia's Forsaken vs tentacle monsters.

Horde-side, while I enjoyed A Good War, it created huge division in the Horde and ensured we'd overthrow another Warchief at the end of this and the Forsaken would be the next after the blood elves and especially orcs on the chopping block for muh honor. A faction war expansion where you help a bunch of Alliance lackeys overthrow your leader because shes the only one actually advancing the faction war narrative as everyone else has been enlightened by Anduin into love and pacifism isn't especially appealing.

[Magnagarde]

While I consider it to be a victory for the Alliance in terms of resources and military elements (ie size of remaining fleets), what did not and still does not make sense is that the Alliance hoped to make the Zandalari surrender. The whole reason why they say they went there in the first place doesn't make much sense.

The Zandalari sank a fleet of warships that was in pursuit of a Zandalari boat that had Horde higher-ups on board at the very start of the expansion. It's obvious that they made their choice; they made their choice then and there. The Zandalari are fighting the Alliance all over the place and they've sunk a mini-fleet of 7th Legion warships right at the start.

The logical approach would've been to go in there to render the Zandalari capital as irreparable as possible and to make their losses as irrecoverable as possible. They instead go in to request their king to surrender, a dude who would rather make a deal with death itself and would bind his bloodline to it, rather than ending up a loser.

[Synros]

Anduin even says the intention wasn't to kill Rastakhan, and was more of a "spur of the moment" kind of thing after finding out he had made a pact with a death god.

[VladlTutushkin]

I see your point. It actually is kinda true, i agree. Also what about bet, huh? And i am telling you - you will be wearing that shirt , i am no Nostradamus but it dosent takes a seer to predict that Delaryn will be new Forsaken "sad girl". Maybe she will just stay with "Voss Party" where while not openly opposing Sylvanas she will just "wait out" the whole shitfest and then be "sylvanas less powerful replacement" with same irrational hatred towards Alliance and similary irrational loyalty to the Horde and FOrsaken as a people that Voss shares. But in her case that is even MORE unreasonable. What else... As i said i dont give a shit about faction war since Alliance is not allowed to actually wage war against the Horde. So i cringe in disgust every time when i hear "vengeance" or "revenge". We are told (and shoved down the throat) that 'any kind of revenge is innately bad thing" so i know that such words will either ring hollow or even worse - turn the vengeful leader into a boss or "oh i was wrong" charcater later on.

[McNeil]

The SI:7 needs a huge boot up their ass as they couldn't even uncover the actual relationship between the Horde and Zandalari. The Zandalari under Rastakhan had no intend to actually join the Horde, but to just be an ally who was willing to lend out his fleet if the Horde were to help him with the troubles occuring in Zandalar. It was Talanji who wanted to join the Horde. If the Alliance was smarter they would've tried to raid another Horde city instead, like Silvermoon or Orgrimmar.

[VladlTutushkin]

But that could actually HURT the Horde! No, we cant have such things happening in war, nuh huh.

[Leodok]

Absolute superiority in the war, the the possibility of a full victory "within weeks."

[Budong]

Not sure why you people even argue this stuff. None of this will matter in the long run because the story exists in a game with a split player base. No one with a shred of sanity would risk alienating half of their playerbase by allowing the other half to defeat them. No one is going to win this war. No one is going to lose. Both sides will win and lose battles but will ultimately end up in a similar place at the end. Blizzard simply has no other choice.

[GetCrunk]

Not sure why you people even argue this stuff. None of this will matter in the long run because the story exists in a game with a split player base. No one with a shred of sanity would risk alienating half of their playerbase by allowing the other half to defeat them. No one is going to win this war. No one is going to lose. Both sides will win and lose battles but will ultimately end up in a similar place at the end. Blizzard simply has no other choice.

They did this in MOP why they would have a problem with it now?

[Budong]

They did this in MOP why they would have a problem with it now?

Not sure what you tried to say but I'll guess you meant something about MoP having a losing side and that side didn't complain?

There was no winning or losing side in MoP. Both sides joined together to depose Garrosh who had kind of created his own third side. For the moment, not the same thing as BfA.

Besides in BfA defeat looks more like total annihilation instead of living to fight another day.

[Torto]

The whole war campaign from either side makes zero sense. Both Zandalar and Kul Tiras being the prime focus for attacks is absurd. If the Alliance amassed their full force and wiped Ogrimmar off the map (which Jaina could do on her own really), then the horde would become a scattered mess and the war is over. The whole storyline this expansion is filled with plot contrivance simply to progress a narrative through two new zones through a new expansion.

For this war to make any sense at all it needed to be fought in Kalimdor and possibly EK, not on two islands in the middle of the ocean.

[nothingsjim]

The attack would make far more sense if Alliance tried to capture King Rastakhan as a hostage instead of just killing him.

In a way that's not too different from the Spain's capture of Emperor Atahualpa of Inca in order to force Inca empire to pay huge sum of ransom. The Alliance can use the captured Rastakhan as a bargain chip to force Zandalar to cut all ties with the Horde. Hell, Dazar'alor is even inspired by Inca, both being Mayincatec and all. (And Hakkar's Blood Plague = Smallpox)

The fight would be much more lore-friendly if, say at 20%, Jaina teleports in and freezes Rastakhan, but Bwonsamdi intervened and overloads Rastakhan with his power, forcing the king to fight to his death and go out in a necrotic blaze of glory, ruining Alliance's plan.

[VladlTutushkin]

Thats what happens actually aside from him being frozen. He would have fallen without energy to fight if not for Bwonsamdi but Bwon also overcharged him on Death magic so Rastakham fought better but also died from “overdose” in the end.

[nothingsjim]

Thats what happens actually aside from him being frozen. He would have fallen without energy to fight if not for Bwonsamdi but Bwon also overcharged him on Death magic so Rastakham fought better but also died from “overdose” in the end.

Sure, but the lack of any effort shown from Alliance side to capture King Rastakhan is what spurs all the "Alliance attack doesn't make sense" and "Alliance are idiot for attacking Dazar'alor" in the first place.

A "Jaina Freeze Event", or even a single dialogue like "He's too powerful, we can't take him alive!" would solve all these complaints. But no, let's not show anything and make Alliance look like some big idiots.

[Qualia]

A "Jaina Freeze Event", or even a single dialogue like "He's too powerful, we can't take him alive!" would solve all these complaints. But no, let's not show anything and make Alliance look like some big idiots.

I don't know. From the perspective of a Horde main, even though the Alliance failed their main purpose of the assault, they still gained way more than what the Horde actually gained. In a way, this is like Undercity - the Alliance technically failed, but the Horde was (and is) the one who had to suffer the most.

[formerShandalay]

I'm not sure where the 'they didn't even try telling Rastakhan to surrender' comes from. When I did the raid Alliance side I was a little taken aback by how humble Genn sounded when addressing Rastakhan and how much serenity and even a little sorrow he seemed to feel when telling the 'champions' to attack. Afterwards when Anduin starts complaining Genn even kind of defends Rastakhan's decision not to surrender and to sacrifice his life for his people.

Of course Horde-side you get told something very different, but I'm not sure how happy the Zandalari would have been with their king had he simply given in to the Alliance. That sounds like a really bad move.

.... which is something the Alliance should have known, of course. But the fact that attacking Zandalar as a means to divide the Horde and the Zandalari was a stupid thing was a given anyway. The Alliance took out the fleet and that's the win here, nothing else. The other goal was 'head in the clouds'-Anduin wishful thinking.

[Maxilian]

The bad part about this, is that the Alliance does the same thing to the Vulpera that are working with the Horde as transport units.

Lets see if it doesn't blow back in their faces again. (i will assume it does, as is pointed out to Talanji that the Vulpera are her allies -even joining the council-)

Though it makes me wonder of the fate of the Tortollans, will they become a ally of the Horde? (not complete members of them, but an ally)

[Kithelle]

The Alliance attacked Dazar'alor for the same reason they attacked Taurajo.

The humans are still salty that they lost the First War so they are hellbent on punishing anyone who dares associate with orcs. Doesn't matter who they kill. Military personnel, hunters, civilians are all fair game.

Good thing Baine was there to set things straight and remind everyone that the Alliance has the moral high ground despite murdering civilians and the Horde should just surrender.

Still Horde unironically bringing up Taurajo like it's even a comparison to of the damage the Alliance has suffered all these years.

But yes, you keep pretending one outpost is even comparable to three major cities!