Is Calling CNN 'Fake News' an assault on Freedom of the Press?

[Orbitus]

Is he banning them from publishing something he doesn't like, under threat of penalties?

The answer to that is: No.

He is trying to. Threatening to have NBC have their license to publish revoked. Same with CNN.

[Theodarzna]

You keep ignoring why freedom of the press exists. That doesn't make your point valid, however.

You can't seem to explain what your point is other than some vague notion that it is very super duper important that political leaders treat a handful of media conglomerates as respected and revered institutions of truth. An odd notion that we would privilege CNN and the NYT's in such a way given neither institutions existed when the First Amendment was crafted and thus could not have been what the framers had in mind. Freedom of the Press, is freedom to be a journalist or report the goings on of the world, not a granting of some privileged status to any specific class of people a revered place in society or as the eternally trusted gatekeepers of what is true in the world.

[Rennadrel]

It really isn't, if you use anything to the right of say, the Hill, then yes it is pretty much accurate.

It's a good thing then that I am neither A) An American B) someone who relies exclusively on one news source for my information C) not a gullible retard when it comes to the screeching that comes from media outlets like CNN and Faux News

[Orbitus]

It's a good thing then that I am neither A) An American B) someone who relies exclusively on one news source for my information C) not a gullible retard when it comes to the screeching that comes from media outlets like CNN and Faux News

I don't rely on one news source either. And 9/10 I don't cite CNN. And I am also not a gullible retard. That is why I am not a Republican.

[xChurch]

Can we please stop acting like CNN is the biggest name in liberal news? I'm pretty damn sure if it just up and vanished one day, most liberals wouldn't even notice or care. They are just as much of a joke has Fox is, just for different reasons. They also gave Trump massive free air time just like most of the other TV news, not very liberal of them.

[timberx]

No, but I don't see why Trump or anyone has to hold these specific institutions or specific reporters in high esteem or with reverence for the First Amendment to hold stable.

And I ask again, why does it have to be one or the other? Why are you trying to make it seem like reverence of the media is the only alternative to demonizing them?

[Theodarzna]

Can we please stop acting like CNN is the biggest name in liberal news? I'm pretty damn sure if it just up and vanished one day, most liberals wouldn't even notice or care. They are just as much of a joke has Fox is, just for different reasons. They also gave Trump massive free air time just like most of the other TV news, not very liberal of them.

Depends on how we define Liberal. Liberal =/= Left, and they are not synonymous terms except in the mind of Rush Limbaugh. I mean, my main Left Wing source is going to be Chris Hedges, Jimmy Dore, Abbey Martin, and I guess Kyle Kulinski. But I'd call these people various types of Left-Wing. CNN, MSNBC and even Fox News are all fairly Liberal in the conventional meaning of the term with perhaps Fox being the closest to Conservatism in that it has Tucker Carlson on. I'd say America has no Left-Wing mainstream news sources.

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And I ask again, why does it have to be one or the other? Why are you trying to make it seem like reverence of the media is the only alternative to demonizing them?

As Edge- and others have intimated, it seems that at least to some people, the Presidents job is to recognize specific journalists from specific outlets has some sort of respectable outlet and to give them some level of deference. None of this behavior is mandated by the First Amendment, a working professional relationship with such outlets is not spelled out in the First Amendment.

[Nellise]

As Edge- and others have intimated, it seems that at least to some people, the Presidents job is to recognize specific journalists from specific outlets has some sort of respectable outlet and to give them some level of deference. None of this behavior is mandated by the First Amendment, a working professional relationship with such outlets is not spelled out in the First Amendment.

It is the one profession specifically mentioned in the First Amendment and those presidents that actually care about the Constitution understand that means respecting the institution and not randomly saying stuff like "THE RIGGED AND CORRUPT MEDIA IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!"

[Theodarzna]

It is the one profession specifically mentioned in the First Amendment and those presidents that actually care about the Constitution understand that means respecting the institution and not randomly saying stuff like "THE RIGGED AND CORRUPT MEDIA IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!"

The press, or being a reporter isn't exactly a specific class of people. As mentioned elsewhere, anyone can be a reporter. It is an action one can take, not a class of people or some privileged few working for some organization. Freedom of the press is the principle that communication and expression through various media, including printed and electronic media, especially published materials, should be considered a right to be exercised freely. It is a right held by all, not by CNN, NYT, or any specific class of people working for some organization. The First Amendment is generally understood to prevent the government from interfering with the distribution of information and opinions. Trump has not violated this principle by insulting them, disparaging them, or calling any set of journalists or media outlets as corrupt shills.

Branzburg v. Hayes defined it as "a fundamental personal right", not confined to newspapers and periodicals. Thus CNN, the New York Time and the Washington Post have no exclusive claim to being "The Press". We are the Press, all of us. Trump's statements, when viewed in light of what the First Amendment actually means and what case law has expanded upon reveals the facts of what he is even talking about; namely that a specific group of media corporations and their employees are enemies of a group of people. Though I doubt Trump was smart enough to know this himself and I'd add he didn't articulate that these specific groups only are enemies of just SOME of the American people but not all.

Still, in light of what Freedom of the Press means, his statement is either being radically misunderstood and misrepresented, OR it doesn't make any sense given that the Press IS the people, so it doesn't logically follow that the People are the enemy of the People.

[Nellise]

The press, or being a reporter isn't exactly a specific class of people.

You're misinterpreting that decision. There are many state laws defining what a journalist is: https://www.rcfp.org/journals/the-ne...ons-journalis/ and they are a specific group of people.

[PosPosPos]

Can we please stop acting like CNN is the biggest name in liberal news? I'm pretty damn sure if it just up and vanished one day, most liberals wouldn't even notice or care. They are just as much of a joke has Fox is, just for different reasons. They also gave Trump massive free air time just like most of the other TV news, not very liberal of them.

There won't be any liberal news sources at the end of the day, just by that metric of how much air time Trump has.

He's the nation's president, even if it's clearly for worse, but I am not sure how news sources can just leave him out of news reporting.

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You're misinterpreting that decision. There are many state laws defining what a journalist is: https://www.rcfp.org/journals/the-ne...ons-journalis/ and they are a specific group of people.

Alt-righters aren't alt-righters without blatantly misinterpreting or ignoring laws, tbh.

[Theodarzna]

You're misinterpreting that decision. There are many state laws defining what a journalist is: https://www.rcfp.org/journals/the-ne...ons-journalis/ and they are a specific group of people.

Not really relevant as shield laws don't mean that anybody can't be a journalist. In most shield laws I've seen, anyone who reports the news can be considered a reporter. They are not a privileged class set above or in difference too "the people".

If you want threats to Freedom of the Press, just look at who is attacking Wikileaks. And it should be noted, the desire to destroy those journalists is bipartisan in America.

[Nellise]

Not really relevant as shield laws don't mean that anybody can't be a journalist. In most shield laws I've seen, anyone who reports the news can be considered a reporter. They are not a privileged class set above or in difference too "the people".

Everybody can be an astronaut too, doesn't mean everybody is one. The press, whoever it may be, is offered a special protection by the constitution that other professions are not. The government can say "only government employees can be an astronaut", it can't say the same for journalists.

[Slant]

You can't seem to explain what your point is other than some vague notion that it is very super duper important that political leaders treat a handful of media conglomerates as respected and revered institutions of truth. An odd notion that we would privilege CNN and the NYT's in such a way given neither institutions existed when the First Amendment was crafted and thus could not have been what the framers had in mind. Freedom of the Press, is freedom to be a journalist or report the goings on of the world, not a granting of some privileged status to any specific class of people a revered place in society or as the eternally trusted gatekeepers of what is true in the world.

I have explained it to you. It's not vague, it's fundamental understanding of democracy. Something you repeatedly display to not have.

[Cthulhu 2020]

If someone acts like your enemy, you should be able to call them on that.

Or maybe, just maybe, you and others are being paranoid about the media being your enemy? Novel and unique thought I know.

[Theodarzna]

Everybody can be an astronaut too, doesn't mean everybody is one. The press, whoever it may be, is offered special protection by the constitution that other professions are not. The government can say "only government employees can be an astronaut", it can't say the same for journalists.

The Constitution says no such thing, some states have shield laws for people who make a job out of spreading information, but the Constitution doesn't designate it as such. They are afforded say protection from being shut down by the state, they are not assured friendship or a cozy relationship with politicians.

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I have explained it to you. It's not vague, it's a fundamental understanding of democracy. Something you repeatedly display to not have.

You said its fundamental to democracy, you never defined what IT actually is, just that it is a thing that is important. Why its importance means that CNN, NYT, MSNBC or Fox News must be held in reverential esteem is not described but you do say simple things as if they are profound. Kinda what I'd expect from Donald Tusks biggest fan, but not a terrible insightful or interesting statement to bring to the table.

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In the abstract, you're right. Of course the President has no mandate to endorse literally everything and anything the media publishes.

It is also true that the sitting President is an objective asshole who employs actual falsehoods and demeans important institutions of our democracy in order to advance his own corrupt goals. Maybe if the mainstream media was rampant with fake news there could be an argument, but there just isn't. If your point is to take the abstract truth and apply it to this single case example, then you're suffering from a terrible fallacy called a strawman.

Donald Trump is a fucking liar and the American press isn't letting him get away with it. We should be defending the press in this case.

Entering this thread, I was sure to find the remarkably clever Theo thought making a non-sequitur to an article she clearly didn't read would make a persuasive argument. But it *never* is.

See, I love that you come in and try to act like you want to have a discussion but have to make sure there is petty insults so you can save face with a group of rando-nobodies on a World of Warcraft message board.

CNN, the NYT, Fox News and the MSNBC network did not exist at the time of the nation's founding, how any of them got pushed up to be the most critical parts of a nation's democracy is beyond me. Given their legacy of being stooges for the State and their advocacy for foreign wars and glossing over other American attrocities; I am astonished that a LARP'er such as you would make the mistep of praising them, unless all that Lefty talk of yours was just pretensious garbage and you didn't mean a word of it.

[Slant]

I wont repeat myself just so you can ignore the post again.

[Theodarzna]

I wont repeat myself just so you can ignore the post again.

Granted, you said nothing before so you saying literally nothing isn't a huge change up.

[Cthulhu 2020]

See, I love that you come in and try to act like you want to have a discussion but have to make sure there is petty insults so you can save face with a group of rando-nobodies on a World of Warcraft message board.

At least you don't try to pretend you want to have an honest discussion, and skip right to the petty insults so you can save face with a bunch of rando-nobodies on a World of Warcraft Message board. Remember how you put everyone on ignore who hands your ass to you in a discussion? Yeah, that's a thing.

[Dhrizzle]

At least you don't try to pretend you want to have an honest discussion, and skip right to the petty insults so you can save face with a bunch of rando-nobodies on a World of Warcraft Message board. Remember how you put everyone on ignore who hands your ass to you in a discussion? Yeah, that's a thing.

In fairness Theo has had their ass handed to them for 15 pages so far and they're still going.