Arcane Torrent, a Plea, a Compromise

[legendaryusername]

belf racial was the dumbest ever in pvp. it made human racial look like nothing

[NatePsy]

As a Tauren Paladin, warstomp is the most useless racial I've encountered.

Sorry what? Free stun and interrupt of reaping mobs or mobs packs in general in M+

[Druitz]

Arcane torrent was retarded in pvp. it was like melee = blood elf if they could play specific class. Double melee like TWD were so retarded -> grip and you can;t even cast for so long because of 2 interupts and 2 arcane torrents - it's just example.

Arcane torrent wasn't considered op and changed because of m+, it was changed because of pvp. Imo it should only generate a lot of rescources so it will work similliar to orc racial depending on class

[Varx]

You obviously don’t PvP at a high level but ya go ahead and think old AT wasn’t as busted as EMfTS

Im 2.2k exp so yes I know what im talking about. You sound like you just experienced high end matches and suffered a lose from a clutch AT. Which makes you biased against them.

But many other racials can be clutch too, i know warstomp has a cast but your kidding if you dont see the potential in it at high end, low end, side ways, etc.

Like i said it was Powerful compared to the rest but that just means the others needed a buff.

If it really was as OP as you claim then they could have just given it the dwarf treatment and give it a 30 sec shared cd qith trinket. But nope they didnt cuz it wasnt OUTSIDE of mythic+.

[legendaryusername]

Im 2.2k exp so yes I know what im talking about..

this isnt high rating.
play any fotm comp u want to and you can get this rating pretty easily.

[Darkspawn]

Did OP just conveniently forget to mention in that long winded speech that it also gives a small boost to mana/pain/rage/energy to help with clutch PvP kills? Or is this just a thread about how it's ok to nerf Alliance racials (EMfH) and not horde ones? AT WAS too strong, and now is ok.

[sam86]

Standard denial. Your opponent wouldn't say the same.

The AoE interupt was stupidly overpowered. Especially in arena.

as someone who follow arena tournament since ages, can u show me when did belfs every dominate it ? at best belf is stuck to caster, if any race was dominating arena, it was humans everything except shaman dwarf or druid nelf during entire WoD, and when an asskisser broadcaster said that pvp was balanced because 1 team (was something red, whatever it was) used for only once a horde team and said that blizzard is 'balancing pvp' and how all races are valuable they lost (only match in entire tournament) and immediately switched back to humans + dwarf shaman or nelf druid
if AT was OP at any moment it surely wasn't in top 3v3 arena rating, which i follow closely (until bfa, because f8ck bfa), i'm pretty sure u can easily dig past tournaments and check how belfs weren't dominating, in general there is many different races, except in WoD era where it was any class that can be human was human
So if u claim AT was OP in pvp, tell me in which environment, because i can easily say 100% not in 3v3 ever in entire tournaments history

[Varx]

Did OP just conveniently forget to mention in that long winded speech that it also gives a small boost to mana/pain/rage/energy to help with clutch PvP kills? Or is this just a thread about how it's ok to nerf Alliance racials (EMfH) and not horde ones? AT WAS too strong, and now is ok.

AT is on the GCD so for many classes its not wise to cast for the extra resource at a clutch moment.

[Druitz]

Im 2.2k exp so yes I know what im talking about. You sound like you just experienced high end matches and suffered a lose from a clutch AT. Which makes you biased against them.

But many other racials can be clutch too, i know warstomp has a cast but your kidding if you dont see the potential in it at high end, low end, side ways, etc.

Like i said it was Powerful compared to the rest but that just means the others needed a buff.

If it really was as OP as you claim then they could have just given it the dwarf treatment and give it a 30 sec shared cd qith trinket. But nope they didnt cuz it wasnt OUTSIDE of mythic+.

It was retardly op in pvp... Maybe it wasn't easy to see at 2.2k because ppl at 2.2k have no idea how to make good use of racials but at little higher rating it was nightmare for healer if 2 melees sapped on him with brain. Double blood elf for melee cleave was something normal.

It was like 90% ppl were playing blood elf in horde if they could pick class they want because of how retarded this racial was. I can remember when during wod nobody played pvp in horde but after horde racials boost people started moving to horde and we ended with horde dominating in pvp.

[Varx]

Ok ok we're getting off topic.

The main point of this thread is that current AT needs fixing. It's a dead racial that is complete rng in pvp while still on the gcd and needs to be addressed.

I know there are other over nerfed racials like emfhs but this isnt about those.

[Lothaeryn]

I agree, I really really miss the interrupt the old Arcane Torrent gave us. Used it as a part of my rotation for many years. Such a shame they changed it. :/

The fact that you used it as a part of your rotation should be more than evidence to point out it was inherently broken as a racial, it should never be that useful.

AT was always overtuned, an AoE interrupt is something no class save for Boomkin(With justifiably long CD) in recent years ever had. When AT was introduced with Blood Elves, the problem was always there, but it was exacerbated tenfold when successful interrupts started locking out entire magic class skill trees instead of only the skill type it was interrupting. with a long lockout period to boot.

Back in BC and Wrath, I recall AT only interrupting the cast and maybe locking out the skill for the duration of a GCD. Interrupts now, however, lockout every skill for that magic type (be it holy, fel, shadow, arcane, etc) for a good 3-5 seconds. 3-5 seconds is a life or death sentence for any PvP bracket worth its salt. No race should have that huge of an edge against another race in performance; but due to Blizzards lack of attention to PvP balance over the years the racial was never addressed in any fashion even as combat mechanics evolved with time.

It was only until M+, a PVE system, became popular and highlighted how useful the Racial was that it caught Blizzards eye; when you HAD to have a BE in high M+ keys(In the eyes of upper bracket players) because of how useful that skill is, it is inherently broken.

IMHO, it should be a targeted skill, not an AoE mechanic, then it would have more utility (Read: utility, what all racials should be).

[McFuu]

Sorry what? Free stun and interrupt of reaping mobs or mobs packs in general in M+

Reaping mobs aren't that dangerous, and the actual things it does stun/interrupt seems limited in Mythic+ vs normal dungeons. As if it's value was artificially lowered by Blizz. This is VS BE Dispel which is really useful in a lot of dungeons, or even when you switch to Dreneai in BoD, the heal is way more useful. As a Paladin you can talent blinding light which works better. On the Horde side, I'd much rather have the dispel/purge vs the stomp.

[Kemsa]

The problem with Arcane Torrent, its not the Ability itself, it was that the ability was paired with Mana Tap, so in paper its not bad having an AoE silence or an AoE dispel, the problem is how much op vs the pasives of the Belfs, the base stats of the race and vs other Horde racials (lets me honest we can only compare it with Horde) and let me tell you, that being a Belf its has been the worst idea for my Paladin (since tbc) and for my rogue (since legion) the amount of Dps loss because i am not a Goblin a troll or a FOrsaken its huge, dont believe that "niche" that says yeah Belf are ope because some fights you need that dispel. I think a DK Tauren its 10 times better for a good bwosamdi pull than the average dispel.

But hell who knows.

[Kynario]

The fact that you used it as a part of your rotation should be more than evidence to point out it was inherently broken as a racial, it should never be that useful.

AT was always overtuned, an AoE interrupt is something no class save for Boomkin(With justifiably long CD) in recent years ever had when AT was introduced with Blood Elves. The problem was always there, but it was exacerbated tenfold when successful interrupts started locking out entire magic class skill trees instead of only the skill type it was interrupting. with a long lockout period to boot.

Back in BC and Wrath, I recall AT only interrupting the cast and maybe locking out the skill for the duration of a GCD. Interrupts now, however, lockout every skill for that magic type (be it holy, fel, shadow, arcane, etc) for a good 3-5 seconds. 3-5 seconds is a life or death sentence for any PvP bracket worth its salt. No race should have that huge of an edge against another race in performance; but due to Blizzards lack of attention to PvP balance over the years the racial was never addressed in any fashion even as combat mechanics evolved with time.

It was only until M+, a PVE system, became popular and highlighted how useful the Racial was that it caught Blizzards eye; when you HAD to have a BE in high M+ keys(In the eyes of upper bracket players) because of how useful that skill is, it is inherently broken.

IMHO, it should be a targeted skill, not an AoE mechanic, then it would have more utility (Read: utility, what all racials should be).

True, all your points are valid. You're completely right about this.

But gutting it completely, getting rid of its essence, makes me sad. They should've made it a targeted skill indeed. The developers often go from one extreme to another. Taking something OP and completely destroying it until it becomes useless and never used again.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Seriously... did you even read your own post before making this thread?

It was too good and you even acknowledge that in your text, but you're too biased to realize it and now you miss your upper hand so much you gotta cry about it.

[mostvp71]

Im 2.2k exp so yes I know what im talking about. You sound like you just experienced high end matches and suffered a lose from a clutch AT. Which makes you biased against them.

But many other racials can be clutch too, i know warstomp has a cast but your kidding if you dont see the potential in it at high end, low end, side ways, etc.

Like i said it was Powerful compared to the rest but that just means the others needed a buff.

If it really was as OP as you claim then they could have just given it the dwarf treatment and give it a 30 sec shared cd qith trinket. But nope they didnt cuz it wasnt OUTSIDE of mythic+.

Lmao ok, I have glad and hero xp, and I am telling you that you are absolutely wrong and AT was busted. I’ll tell you what, go post on arena forums and ask them if they think AT was broken in Legion.

You’re too biased for your own good, it was just as broken as EMfTS.

It was retardly op in pvp... Maybe it wasn't easy to see at 2.2k because ppl at 2.2k have no idea how to make good use of racials but at little higher rating it was nightmare for healer if 2 melees sapped on him with brain. Double blood elf for melee cleave was something normal.

It was like 90% ppl were playing blood elf in horde if they could pick class they want because of how retarded this racial was. I can remember when during wod nobody played pvp in horde but after horde racials boost people started moving to horde and we ended with horde dominating in pvp.

This guy gets it.

[Clash the DK]

It's funny to see a thread complaining about AT. It was always the most OP racial. And at least it has some use still.

EMFH, on the other hand, is now absolutely worthless. It is literally always on cooldown every single time I might need it. So, from my perspective, humans don't even have a racial. Therefore, that means your Belf and Horde still has OP racials comparably. AT could just give the resources and it would still be better than EMFH.

So stop complaining. You will get no sympathy.

[Ealyssa]

as someone who follow arena tournament since ages

Stop following and start watching maybe. Cause at this point you're surely blind.

Nice whataboutism on human racial tho. It was nerfed for that reason. Just like the BE after that, when every single PVP players switched horde once human became garbage.

[ONCHEhap]

As a belf,the belf racial never felt so powerful

Sure,it's situational,but an aoe offensive dispel is incredibly powerful,when you can use it,it can change the tide of a fight

[Merpish]

I think interrupts are far too strong to give as a racial. Both in PvP and in PvE. Especially since Belves can be priests+monks. Bringing an extra interrupt on your healer is huge. Interrupting the enemy healer or his off-heal one additional time is almost guaranteed victory. I don't know how you want to balance that.

I think M+ just made the problem more obvious to the point where they could not ignore it any longer. Accoriding to realm-pop 20% of all max-level characters are Belves. That is almost the number of the #2+3 races COMBINED. And the racial was changed before players had to level to 120. So i think Belves really don't need a stronger racial at all.

Also it was part of the reason we saw so many kiting Strats in M+ last expansion. If you have all belves you can just keep mass gripping and kitting and AoE silences going.