[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Eleccybubb]

I don't expect any from you because all you do is whine about stuff you dislike. Funny how that works, eh?
@Eleccybubbs answer is what interests me more because he seems to agree unilaterally with these new rules and I'd like his thoughts on the passages I linked (the rest of the rules was fine).

My 2 cents is this.

Rule changes have happened in other games and nothing really changed.

It's gonna be the same for this game.

I get where you are coming from I really do. But I think you are worrying about nothing personally. Admittedly they seem a bit vague but still I don't think anything bad is going to come out of them. And even if they do they will have to be taking note of the feedback and could potentially adjust them accordingly.

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Yes congrats I dislike when fake outrage mongers flood more threads than the already obnoxiously high amount on this forum feigning offense at a nothingburger and then proceed to spout the shallowest slippery slope arguments possible as to why they're wrong.

Come on dude. There's no reason to start insulting people. @Granyala does make some good points on the matter and even I will admit there is some vagueness in the new written up stuff.

[Granyala]

My 2 cents is this.
Rule changes have happened in other games and nothing really changed.
It's gonna be the same for this game.

I get where you are coming from I really do. But I think you are worrying about nothing personally. Admittedly they seem a bit vague but still I don't think anything bad is going to come out of them. And even if they do they will have to be taking note of the feedback and could potentially adjust them accordingly.

Considering that the trend is downsizing of CM/CR staff I pretty much expect the same as you do.
The few GMs we have will probably be busy with real cases that warrant their attention.

Thinking about it, it is possible they formulated the rules this vaguely as a shock approach.
Psychologically speaking, formulating the rules at 150% and only taking action on 80% will still net more subdued player behavior that stating 100% and acting upon 100%.

Personally I am not worried for me because I never even managed to get banned in their forums, so I must be doing sth. right.

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fake outrage mongers

I'm calmly sitting here, reading.... pulse is steady.
Most these rules elicited were a few eyerolls/raised eyebrows and I chuckled at the "intentional disconnect" rule.

If that classifies as outrage in this day and age, then yup: consider my old fart rear end "guilty as charged".

[StrawberryZebra]

Erm.. okay, that one is probably due to Eureka. Can kinda understand it, doing it once or twice is fun but some people have been doing that for the entire run.

I got the feeling that a lot of the "obstructive behaviour" bullet points are in relation to the new dungeon in Eureka. They've made it sounds as though the place is quite easy to abuse and spoil it for other players. I'm assuming this is simply a means to allow them to punish griefing there.

If Squenix are planning on adding more of the same kind of content in Shadowbringers then they could be required for that too. As it stands though, they're worded in such a way where they could have broad and far reaching implications if they're ever strictly enforced.

Yes congrats I dislike when fake outrage mongers flood more threads than the already obnoxiously high amount on this forum feigning offense at a nothingburger and then proceed to spout the shallowest slippery slope fallacies as possible as to why this new thing is worth freaking out over.

From skimming through, there's very little outrage here. There's a lot of criticism for the changes, but nothing that's inciting others to "freak out" over them. There may be lots in other places, like the offical forums or Reddit, but I'm seeing very little of it on MMO-Champion.

Being critical isn't the same as being outraged. Criticism is expressing the flaws and shortcomings of these changes. Lots of posters here are doing that because there are lots of deficiencies that can be brought up. Outrage is little more than directed anger. We're not angry with Squenix on the whole, just disapproving.

We all know how much youtube loves the outrage clickbait algorithm and it looks like another case of someone chasing the outrage culture meme like some kind of parasite or remora like yongyeah or any other of the 1000's of these gossip rag vlogs.

Honestly, I thought this was an internet meme. Until I watched the video link and my YT recommendations are clogged up with YongYea (Whoever that is), Azmongold, and his weird looking faces, and Jim Sterling videos. Turns out the algorithms really do jump the gun on serving up this kind of content. I realise that a lot of that is coming from it's self learning and that people who look for this kind of content are probably watching a ton of it. But to get so much of it after watching just one video? Very excessive.

There really does need to be more of an ongoing discussion about this in a more appropriate place. Not only with YouTube, but I'm more inclined now to believe that other companies use blackbox algorithms that work pretty similar.

[dope_danny]

Or just a bloody block button like twitter.

[Granyala]

Hmm. I only get piano music in my recommendations.

[Wrecktangle]

I've got MHW on Steam, but it's quite far down my backlog at the moment. I might have to bump it up the queue, but I'm currently half way through watching One Punch Man. It's going to have to wait a while longer.

Hit me up if u want to play together, I've been dying to try a new weapon out.

[Katchii]

Yes congrats I dislike when fake outrage mongers flood more threads than the already obnoxiously high amount on this forum feigning offense at a nothingburger and then proceed to spout the shallowest slippery slope fallacies as possible as to why this new thing is worth freaking out over.

Your attempts to bring up other topics are cute, though.

@Granyala brought up very good points in the post regarding specific verbiage in the new rules. That's not outrage, she's just trying to have an objective discussion about those points and you're, ironically, kind of going full SJW on her on the subject trying to shut her up because you don't like what she's saying.

I agree with those specific points, but SE has always been intentionally vague with most of their wording like saying "adjusted" in the patch notes for ability damage, drop rates, monster spawns, etc... rather than saying increased, decreased or providing a specific number. Based on past experience in the game, I dont' think they'll use it as an excuse to just start banning anyone for anything just because some snowflake complained about it, BUT the verbiage is written in such a way that feasibly allows that interpretation.

[Beastiel]

Yes congrats I dislike when fake outrage mongers flood more threads than the already obnoxiously high amount on this forum feigning offense at a nothingburger and then proceed to spout the shallowest slippery slope fallacies as possible as to why this new thing is worth freaking out over.

Your attempts to bring up other topics are cute, though.

Can you stop spamming the thread telling other people to leave and thinking that it's somehow more pleasant to see than people having a conversation you don't particularly approve of? Also stop with the buzzwords, it's clear you have no idea what the term slippery slope means, why it's typically a fallacy, or how it pertains to this conversation.

But boy you sure think you do.

[Wrecktangle]

Oh I did see that, that's the freakout? I mean I saw the official article, not the freakout that I guess was being had.

I dont even know whats objectionable about it.

To be fair there IS a such thing as too much moderation. We could argue all day whether the above new rules qualify, but I can tell you that going too far that way is what the official forums are known for and not in a good way.

Example, I was banned there for 10 days, for a first offense. My offense was merely responding to someone who had said that "parsers" are awful because they have no context and can't tell things like how many times a RDM raised someone. I had corrected this poster by explaining that ACT, and more specifically logs, capture both context and resurrections quite easily and explained to them where to look in both scenarios if they were interested in learning more.

I got a 10 day ban for this, because someone somewhere felt that me using the word ACT had offended them and reported me. All I did was correct misinformation. I didn't use an iota of questionable language or negative connotations. I got a 10 day ban for this. I vehemently disagree with this.

I later got a permaban (so 2 strikes and gone). The second was a situation that I knew going in COULD have potential consequences because I directly linked a players logs, but it needed to be done to set precedent. This player was giving Paladin feedback saying he clears all content just fine when his logs show him pressing just Rage of Halone over and over, with sub 10th percentiles in every category, and ignoring 75% of his abilities. Like literally using shield oath as off tank, or not using Holy Spirit at all, etc.

Here's a link to the transcript that got me permabanned if you're interested: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post50306948

At the end of the day I'm personally not convinced it's going to be a big change, but I at least wanted to provide some insight into why some people might be uncomfortable if moderation is as heavy handed as say the OF are.

[Faroth]

Basically people blowing it out of proportion in some comments.

The change was made just so people can't get around account action with loopholes. And because ingame harassment had seen a rise according to the live letter.

Increase in WoW Refugees
Increase of in game harassment
"You don't get away with that crap here."

Coincidence, not causation, etc. but I can't help but suspect there's a likely connection.

I'm fine with it.

I don't see any likelihood that Square Enix, and Yoshida's team in particular, has suddenly had a complete culture shift and will be suddenly locking accounts that have been fine for years. It's going to be the same moderation and the same actions it's always been.

I'm not fishing for sympathy in saying this, but I'm going to note it as it may contributing to my mindset:
My dog died on Wednesday. Terms of service meant to enforce some modicum of civility is absolutely trivial and I don't remotely see a reason to be upset over it. Honestly, a lot of things people are worked up over seem like trivial BS to me right now.

[Eleccybubb]

@Faroth.

Think the WoW refugee thing has no correlation personally. Although as you said there has been a rise on harassment.

Also. Ouch man. Sorry to hear about your dog. . Always heartbreaking when you have to say goodbye to family. One of my retrievers passed a couple of months back and I was upset for a good few weeks.

[Wrecktangle]

Increase in WoW Refugees
Increase of in game harassment
"You don't get away with that crap here."

Coincidence, not causation, etc. but I can't help but suspect there's a likely connection.

I'm fine with it.

I don't see any likelihood that Square Enix, and Yoshida's team in particular, has suddenly had a complete culture shift and will be suddenly locking accounts that have been fine for years. It's going to be the same moderation and the same actions it's always been.

I'm not fishing for sympathy in saying this, but I'm going to note it as it may contributing to my mindset:
My dog died on Wednesday. Terms of service meant to enforce some modicum of civility is absolutely trivial and I don't remotely see a reason to be upset over it. Honestly, a lot of things people are worked up over seem like trivial BS to me right now.

I am sorry for your loss man, losing a pet hurts bad. I lost my childhood cat last year to kidney failure. She had a great 20 years though!

Regarding harassment - I'd honestly be surprised that they could even revamp their rules and publish it in such a short time frame. It's probably been a long time coming. I'd also be surprised if it had anything to do with WoWfugees tbh.

[Katchii]

I am sorry for your loss man, losing a pet hurts bad. I lost my childhood cat last year to kidney failure. She had a great 20 years though!

Regarding harassment - I'd honestly be surprised that they could even revamp their rules and publish it in such a short time frame. It's probably been a long time coming. I'd also be surprised if it had anything to do with WoWfugees tbh.

Probably means there's not really any core changes to the policy they work to, they're just adding verbiage to the policy that prevents offenders from getting out of stuff they should be able to get a violation for.

[Granyala]

My dog died on Wednesday.

My condolences. That sucks.

[Faroth]

Very unlikely that "more harassment" has anything to do with "refugees" or any other external influence. Much more likely that the game community/culture is just following the natural curve of people tending to be less tolerant, more impatient, and so on as a game ages.

/shrug

There's a notable uptick of interest in XIV, an increase in "WoW refugee's guide to XIV" videos on YouTube, from a game that's become noted for toxic community and was always at least a little known for being shocking in General Chat as a point of "for the lulz" but I'm sure all those lining up right now with noted increase of harassment in the only other major MMO has absolutely no connection whatsoever at all, in any way, shape, or form.

I'm sure it's the community that has been present for 6 years just suddenly decided to stop acting like they have for years and be the exact opposite. Yeah, that one seems to logically fit much better.

You won't take my tinfoil hat from me, cow god!

(I don't mean to say it's the sole reason, but the timing of everything lining up makes me suspect it's one factor)

[Faroth]

Okay, man. Sure. Whatever you say. There's no point going through the laundry list again.

[StrawberryZebra]

There's a notable uptick of interest in XIV, an increase in "WoW refugee's guide to XIV" videos on YouTube, from a game that's become noted for toxic community and was always at least a little known for being shocking in General Chat as a point of "for the lulz" but I'm sure all those lining up right now with noted increase of harassment in the only other major MMO has absolutely no connection whatsoever at all, in any way, shape, or form.

Does WoW have a toxic community? I've been playing it again for the past 4-5 months and honestly, it's probably the best I've ever seen it. There was so much bad blood that went around in Vanilla. People screaming at each other, open flame wars in Trade chat, dungeon runs that frequently went tits up because everyone was trying to prove that they were the best and no one wanted to work as a team... There were basically two or three communities that were constantly at each others throats on my server, and that didn't start to break down until WotLK made pug raiding more possible. It was awful.

Come BFA things are a lot calmer. There's less random abuse thrown around, no ninja looting anymore, no angry whispers for tagging mobs first. No arguments that take over trade chat. People tend to treat others much better now than I ever remember in the past and a lot of that is a direct result of systems changes.

There's a lot more elitism, certainly, but I don't really consider it to be a form of toxicity. When I think of toxicity I think of knowlingly engaging in behaviour which is deliberately harmful to other players experience. Elitism, while it can be damaging, isn't usually done with the sole purpose of deliberately excluding players from content. A lot of it stems from the more competative nature of the game at the moment.

I'm probably as guilty of being "elitist" as anyone. Earlier today I was the RL of a Battle for Dazar'alor raid and, for various reasons, required a Mage for the last spot. To all the people I had to decline, I'm probably "That elitist dickhead who wouldn't invite me!". It's mostly a problem of perception more than one grounded in reality.

You're also being pretty dishonest if you're claiming that somehow WoW is "The game known for being toxic" as if it's somehow the outlier in an otherwise kind and friendly internet.

I was under the impression that it was MOBA's were always the "games known for being toxic". That has some basis in truth, a single bad player is all it takes for an entire team to crash and burn, but on the other hand I've been playing DOTA since it was a WC3 mod and I can say with confidence that the toxic players are a tiny minority in that community as a whole.

[Poppincaps]

Hey guys quick question. So I got FF14 for free from Twitch Prime and I've been enjoying the game, so I bought Stormblood. I really want to Race change my main to Au Ra, but I found out that you get a free race change when you subscribe, but it won't let me subscribe since I have 16 days on my account still. Is there any way to circumvent this? I'd like to race change ASAP.

[Kaelwryn]

Hey guys quick question. So I got FF14 for free from Twitch Prime and I've been enjoying the game, so I bought Stormblood. I really want to Race change my main to Au Ra, but I found out that you get a free race change when you subscribe, but it won't let me subscribe since I have 16 days on my account still. Is there any way to circumvent this? I'd like to race change ASAP.

You no longer get a fantasia for subscribing for 30 days, it has been moved to being rewarded upon completing the lvl 50 main scenario quest "the Ultimate Weapon"

[Poppincaps]

You no longer get a fantasia for subscribing for 30 days, it has been moved to being rewarded upon completing the lvl 50 main scenario quest "the Ultimate Weapon"

Oh snap, cool thanks for the info