Sixth Grader charged with not standing for the pledge.

[Xath]

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/39980611...-of-allegiance

Kid decides he doesn't want to stand for the pledge. I'm sorry, I thought this was America if I don't want to stand then I don't want to stand.

Substitute teacher gets made and tells the child to go back to Africa on some passive aggressive bullshit.

Kid knows his 1st Amendment gave his best Randy Marsh impression, "I'm sorry, I thought this was America. Not communist Cuba". I might have paraphrased but I feel like he said that.

SUBSTITUTE teacher calls the office because she got schooled on her 1st Amendment rights. Some genius in the office obviously failed civics as well because of telling her to let the kid shit then they send the police to remove the child.

Patriot-1 (the kid if you can't follow) is like, "WTF? Why are you calling the cops? This is America and I did nothing wrong. People died so I can sit". The kid fought the 'law' and lost. They charged him with some bullshit and took him to juvie.

Suddenly the district wants to cover its ass and say the kids don't have to stand...j guess except for that particular day. So now this kid has some bullshit on his record. Hope they sue.

There is a difference between not wanting to stand and telling someone the flag is racist against black people. That's likely what set the substitute off especially since it sounds like she's a cuban refugee.

That said why in the hell was he sent to juvie instead of just going to the principal's office that's weird and dumb. And likely a slam dunk if they decide to sue the district. I would like to know if there is more to this story because I don't think you can send someone to juvie for not standing for the pledge.

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Literally the only item in the list of things mentioned in the article that could warrant police involvement is that he threatened to beat the teacher.

And given that he says he didn't, and that presumption of innocence is a thing, and that he's 11 fucking years old, I'm gonna expect that teacher to have video evidence or the support of multiple corroborating witnesses, at a bare minimum.

Being disruptive, refusing to stand for the anthem/flag, calling teachers and staff "racists", refusing to follow their orders? That's administrative shit you deal with in the school, you have no fucking business calling the cops. Do your goddamned jobs, you fucks.

The word of an adult is going to beat that of an 11 year old 100 percent of the time unless it's involving violence of some sort against the child. But yes if an adult takes the stand and the oath and then swears that the child did threaten them with physical violence it will absolutely beat the word of an 11 year old. I said a lot of stupid shit when I was 11 and if I had the cops called on me for it you can bet I would have lied my ass off about it of course I never threatened to beat people up but talking about how adults were idiots and that kind of stuff definitely did that. What was left out of the op is the claim that he would commit physical violence that's why the cops were called.

[Zaydin]

I agree with his right to do what he did, but wtf... the flag is racist and the national anthem is offensive to black people? Seriously? That's just stupid.

Considering the Constitution as it was originally written literally considered black people as 3/5ths of a person...

[Sezh]

Ahahah, so now deciding not to aprioritistically believe what's claimed by someone who sound exactly like your typical entitled, arrogant teenager means being authoritarian. Thanks for the laugh.

Says the person who immediatly believes what's claimed by someone who called the cops on a kid and might have realized that they fucked up and might need to make up a legitimate reason for calling the cops to save their own ass.

You don't get to call out others for taking sides without knowing all the facts when you take sides without knowing all the facts.

[Coolthulhu]

Says the person who immediatly believes what's claimed by someone who called the cops on a kid and might have realized that they fucked up and might need to make up a legitimate reason for calling the cops to save their own ass.

You don't get to call out others for taking sides without knowing all the facts when you take sides without knowing all the facts.

I don't call out others for taking sides, I call out others for drawing ludicrous assumptions.

[Super Kami Dende]

I don't know who is more retarded in this story. The teacher for calling the Police, or the Police actually showing up to arrest the Child.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well the kid is a fucking asshole and he will grow into an even bigger one with time, I'm sure of that. But arresting someone over this, a kid no less? Well they cited another reason for being arrested, even though I'm not quite sure how exactly these would constitute grounds for arrest either. Just send the little shit home or expell him from school if you can't deal with the twat.

That being said, forcing people to pledge their allegiance day in and out is such an unbecoming thing for a free country, the US is truly pitiful in that regard and on the same level as facist regimes. This fixation goes beyond simple national pride and patriotism.

[Puri]

The only question here is how the teacher became a teacher if she cannot handle or deal with a pupil that is not her opinion.
Oh, and another question is why the police actually showed up to arrest a kid instead of ridiculing the calling teacher and post this on facebook.

[Mihalik]

Or you can use your brain and realize he was not arrested for "not standing for the pledge" and that he was arrested for his own actions taken and threats made. You can debate the moral grounds of the actions/opinions of both the boy and teacher and district all you like, but trying to bait the thread is just pathetic.

The kid is 11. He was just probably reciting something he picked up from an edge lord uncle/aunt/parent/parent of a friend.

But that is moot one way or another. He is still well within his right to refuse to recite the Pledge, which is in and onto itself stupid in the first place and it's adoption should have been struck down by SCOTUS the second someone came up with it.

I think I recited it a couple of times as a kid but where I grew up (upstate New York) it wasn't something we were beaten over the head with.

As an adult I would refuse to recite it for its implicit statement of faith and religious dimension.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The only question here is how the teacher became a teacher if she cannot handle or deal with a pupil that is not her opinion.
Oh, and another question is why the police actually showed up to arrest a kid instead of ridiculing the calling teacher and post this on facebook.

P: 911/<police station>/whatever, what is your emergency?
S: We have a student that threatens the teacher and disrupts class.
P: We will send an officer.

It's really not that compilcated. Do you honestly think the cops get a full briefing when they show up the the place they were called to? They are lucky to know even some details other than the broad (claimed) reason why they were called. When they arrive at the scene and you are greeted by a twat like that kid (especially with the standards of the US police) it's hardly surprising that they just baged the kid.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Wrong. The Romans never used any such salute. That claim was invented by the Italian fascists for their propaganda.

Yes and no. I was simplifying, focusing on how the US has used it, but yes I also could have been more specific.

The claim was not invented by Fascists, just adopted by them. The idea is generally believed to have originated in the later 1700s in several works of art.

(1780s)

These were in turn based on the famous classical statues.


After that it gets murkier. There is little clear description of an official Roman salute, and generally when described it was similar to the statue of Augustus above of but was typically only the leader/high ranking officer addressing soldiers, and accounts are often inconsistent.

So yes, I should have said, "It was based on interpretations of the classical Roman salute referenced in classical depictions of Roman leaders though with unclear or inconsistent application and adapted by European artists in various works during the 1700s which brought their version into the common lexicon and was later again adapted and modified by various groups or nations as a formal salute until the Fascist movements of the early 1900s seized on it and adapted/modified it again fortheir own usage and ruined it for everybody."

But I thought that was a bit wordy.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

i don't understand how exactly he got arrested.

[Razamith]

i don't understand how exactly he got arrested.

According to the expanded story this morning:
- He refused to leave the classroom and was causing a disturbance
- He refused officer commands
- He made threats of violence against others (along with other threats that wouldn't be considered disorderly conduct)

It doesn't matter who was in the right when the police were called; it doesn't permit anyone from doing whatever they hell they want regardless of law. The school supposedly says it didn't request him to be arrested (as in it was the officer's call) but doesn't really matter as they (the school/teacher) are gonna look bad and face the consequences either way.

[Independent voter]

The kid is 11. He was just probably reciting something he picked up from an edge lord uncle/aunt/parent/parent of a friend.

But that is moot one way or another. He is still well within his right to refuse to recite the Pledge, which is in and onto itself stupid in the first place and it's adoption should have been struck down by SCOTUS the second someone came up with it.

I think I recited it a couple of times as a kid but where I grew up (upstate New York) it wasn't something we were beaten over the head with.

As an adult I would refuse to recite it for its implicit statement of faith and religious dimension.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Very short. Written around 1870-1880

It's a loyalty oath for the Southern man. We lost more people in our Civil War than any other war, more than all the other wars combined.

"one Nation" means you can't turn it into 2 nations like the Souther people tried to.

"indivisible" again you can't divide it into 2.

In exchange everyone gets "liberty and justice for all", including the Southern people.

"under God" was added like in 1950.

A preacher wrote it after considering the horrors of the Civil War, he thought it might prevent a second Civil War. In that light it's not such a bad idea.

[Pat McGroin]

Apparently he was “charged” with being disobedient to school officials( teachers, councilors, principal etc.). The article doesn’t mention this though.

[Kathandira]

Very odd that his behavior came with charges and detainment. I know each state has their own laws, but this seems like quite the overreach.

I guess the physical threat could be seen as something worth charging him for, but it also seems like something that a good talking to could have corrected.

[Unholyground]

I stopped standing and singing the national anthem in highschool and was put out in the hallway a few times, they eventually just stopped caring that I wasn't going to stand, though it could be that I was six foot and 230lbs and did not want to anger me lol.

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Apparently he was “charged” with being disobedient to school officials( teachers, councilors, principal etc.). The article doesn’t mention this though.

So? That happened all the time when I was in school and no one ever pressed charges, you were either sent home or to the office if you got too out of hand.

[Katchii]

Considering the Constitution as it was originally written literally considered black people as 3/5ths of a person...

Still not understanding why history, in and of itself, is racist. It's not that way anymore, things have changed.

[Worvon]

Apparently he was “charged” with being disobedient to school officials( teachers, councilors, principal etc.). The article doesn’t mention this though.

And all that is from the PD. The school is backing way off and in full damage control mode claiming they had nothing to do with it, in an effort to soften their eventual payout to the kid.

[Mihalik]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Very short. Written around 1870-1880

It's a loyalty oath for the Southern man. We lost more people in our Civil War than any other war, more than all the other wars combined.

"one Nation" means you can't turn it into 2 nations like the Souther people tried to.

"indivisible" again you can't divide it into 2.

In exchange everyone gets "liberty and justice for all", including the Southern people.

"under God" was added like in 1950.

A preacher wrote it after considering the horrors of the Civil War, he thought it might prevent a second Civil War. In that light it's not such a bad idea.

The original pledge was worded as "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

It's a significantly less "Constitutionally challenged" version, but even in this form every court has consistently agreed at every challenge that the idea of anyone ever being required to recite it is profoundly opposite to the principles of the Constitution.

The "under God" clause violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, but is usually defended in court successfully by the supposed voluntary nature of the pledge (as in, it's not unconstitutional because it's not mandatory).

But in reality since day 1 it has caused more problems than it was worth and was consistently used to exclude people, not to create inclusion. It has been used to attack religious minorities like Jehova's Witnesses (whose opposition to the Pledge predates the "under God" addition) and Atheists, and it has been used for political persecution.

Again at its core, the Pledge is deeply un-American, and only seems American to those who don't understand the Constitution from the get go.

[Noradin]

Well we are debating whether or not this is OK - but you can get a disorderly conduct ticket at 12 or above.

Wasn't this kid eleven, though?
Or is this a case of "it doesn't matter how old you were when the incident occured it matters how old you are when you appear before the court"?

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My schools stopped doing it once kids reached an age where they actually understood what the fuck they were being forced to say.

Yes, the damage is mostly done by the time they reach that age.
Brainwashing in general works best when you get to them before they understand what you are doing.

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The word of an adult is going to beat that of an 11 year old 100 percent of the time unless it's involving violence of some sort against the child. But yes if an adult takes the stand and the oath and then swears that the child did threaten them with physical violence it will absolutely beat the word of an 11 year old. I said a lot of stupid shit when I was 11 and if I had the cops called on me for it you can bet I would have lied my ass off about it of course I never threatened to beat people up but talking about how adults were idiots and that kind of stuff definitely did that. What was left out of the op is the claim that he would commit physical violence that's why the cops were called.

My condolences.