UK's richest man plans move to Monaco in a bid to 'avoid £4bn in tax'

[Acidbaron]

The lesson from the Soviet Union is that is you put incredibly tight controls on wealth and personal advancement, no one bothers to advance. Enterprising individuals are prone to flee to other nations where they are allowed to operate. And your nation begins to lag behind others due to brain drain.

But as a mental exercise, let's imagine the UN had the power to levy and enforce taxes around the world, so there was nowhere to flee to. There is a solution to THAT too because in THAT environment, the enterprising people will devote 100% of their attention on corrupting THAT system so that there are plenty of loopholes that free them from the burden of those requirements. So you still lose.

The Sovjet union was a communist regime it wasn't a matter of taxes, it was a matter of assets being nationalized, private ownership being destroyed. That's a whole different ball game and honestly a dishonest attempt at best to defend tax reduction for those who don't need it and at the cost of making the worker class constantly foot the bill of society the most while the earn the least.

Tax havens are found out all the time, so the idea to just let them go about and do their thing is disturbing. Why have any laws to begin with than?

[schwank05]

I'd be curious to hear what your definition of 'bare necessities' is in detail.

Military
Police Force
Fire Dept.
Infrastructure like Roads.

But I believe the last 3 should basically be left up to individual states in the end and the Federal government shouldn't have much say in it.

[Nehezbegar]

Good for him, most of this money would be probably spent on a welfare leeches.

I approve his actions.

[Nerovar]

I guess money knows no borders. If only the plebs had this freedom of movement...

[grexly75]

Good for him with the way things are going in the UK I would be getting out as well.. lol

[Unholyground]

We had something similar happen in the state of New Jersey were a billionaire moved to Florida. New Jersey lost so much tax money that they had to implement austerity measures.

But in another way, you're stupid if you pay more taxes than you're legally required to.

Would you pay more tax than the law said you had to?

Are you so patriotic that you'd stay in your birth country even though you had to pay much more in taxes?

If you are a billionaire you can put money back into your country, don't be a greedy piece of shit because guess what, you cannot take it with you when you die.

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Good for him with the way things are going in the UK I would be getting out as well.. lol

They will reverse it and bail on the exit I can guarantee it.

[Bigbazz]

Good For him, Taxation beyond the bare necessities the country needs to provide is a complete joke.

Well the country isn't doing that well, general population is heavily taxed and they are finding new things to add special taxes to all the time. Meanwhile the Police is heavily underfunded, many schools are closing early on fridays to save money because their budgets were cut and council level mismanagement of funds/wastage is on an astronomical level of stupidity, that's not to mention the NHS.

Billionaires not paying their taxes puts the burden on everyday folk who don't have the benefit of being able to tax dodge. So yeah let people be pissed off at the billionaires playing the system.

[grexly75]

They will reverse it and bail on the exit I can guarantee it.

That I do believe, can say I am glad I do not live in the UK especially if the story I heard is true, of a woman being arrested and detained for several hours all because she said something someone didn't like on twitter..

[Unholyground]

That I do believe, can say I am glad I do not live in the UK especially if the story I heard is true, of a woman being arrested and detained for several hours all because she said something someone didn't like on twitter..

That shit has been happening a lot in the EU, just look at the guy from Scotland who made his dog do the Nazi thing as a joke which he indicated several times. It is utter bullshit, people just need to abandon social media and life gets a lot easier though. I know I did and I enjoy life a lot more now.

[grexly75]

That shit has been happening a lot in the EU, just look at the guy from Scotland who made his dog do the Nazi thing as a joke which he indicated several times. It is utter bullshit, people just need to abandon social media and life gets a lot easier though. I know I did and I enjoy life a lot more now.

Pretty much and not surprised and there is a lot of that sort of thing happening now unfortuantely, what made this story worse is that police arrested her in front of her children, all because she made the mistake of misgendering someone on twitter..

[schwank05]

Well the country isn't doing that well, general population is heavily taxed and they are finding new things to add special taxes to all the time. Meanwhile the Police is heavily underfunded, many schools are closing early on fridays to save money because their budgets were cut and council level mismanagement of funds/wastage is on an astronomical level of stupidity, that's not to mention the NHS.

Billionaires not paying their taxes puts the burden on everyday folk who don't have the benefit of being able to tax dodge. So yeah let people be pissed off at the billionaires playing the system.

Or be pissed off at the shitty system and either vote the idiots out, or leave.

[Unholyground]

Pretty much and not surprised and there is a lot of that sort of thing happening now unfortuantely, what made this story worse is that police arrested her in front of her children, all because she made the mistake of misgendering someone on twitter..

This is why I don't use it anymore, I would rather offend people in person then I can at least have a conversation with them.

[Endus]

Then they just say "no fuck you" and leave anyway

What makes you think their money can leave with them? International transfers of money are regulated and monitored. Already. With an "exit tax", there's no legal way to get that money out of the country without paying the tax on it.

Sure, he could stuff it into a suitcase and lie about it, but "he might be able to commit a crime and get away with it" isn't a solid argument.

[Chemii]

I don't, it's probably annoying as fuck always having to deal with shit. You can't go anywhere because some unsavory chap could recognize you and kidnap you. All they can do is sit in their ivory towers and count their money or attempt to go out and it'll become some big spectacle.

This dude could walk down a road with his family and barely anyone would bat an eyelid. There is a huge difference between being famous and being rich. There are loads of rich people you wouldn't know if they were stood right next to you.

[Alexeht]

What makes you think their money can leave with them? International transfers of money are regulated and monitored. Already. With an "exit tax", there's no legal way to get that money out of the country without paying the tax on it.

Sure, he could stuff it into a suitcase and lie about it, but "he might be able to commit a crime and get away with it" isn't a solid argument.

What if he already paid his tax?

[demonyaa]

What makes you think their money can leave with them? International transfers of money are regulated and monitored. Already. With an "exit tax", there's no legal way to get that money out of the country without paying the tax on it.

Sure, he could stuff it into a suitcase and lie about it, but "he might be able to commit a crime and get away with it" isn't a solid argument.

This is a corporate move. The company Ineos is considering moving, not the individual shareholder.

Furthermore you can't tax future income, taxation is backward looking.

[exochaft]

I wish I knew what it feels like to be rich.

Having more money than you could ever spend in your life, but being so worried about taxation that you won't even notice that you are willing to uproot your life to avoid it.

So odd.

Well you just answered why you likely don't understand the issue, as you perceive rich people as completely different from your average person. In most cases, they are not.

Most rich people are rich because they live within their means, to the point where they'd give the most savvy coupon shopper a run for their money. For example, there's an Ocean State Job Lot nearby (basically super cheap shopping in New England for those not familiar with the places), and you'll see $150k vehicles in the parking lot and their owners shopping there. Everyone has the mindset that low income shoppers are their only clients, but that's not the case at all. It quite embodies the typical mindset of someone who is wealthy and wants to remain wealthy: you can splurge on certain things that you want, but if you don't stay within your means you'll go broke in no time. This is why lottery winners typically end up miserable and broke in the end, as they did not acquire their wealth through hard word and discipline, so they tend to lack the self control to live within their means and end up spending frivolously.

Now, if we extend this to companies and businesses at large, the concept tends to be similar... however, there's quite a bit of misconception about the wealth that people want to tax to death. Everyone assumes that the money is static, that these companies and owners have billions in wealth shoved under their mattresses, and any profit they make gets added to the pile that hides away. That's completely inaccurate, as that money is generally mobile and getting used. There's a common phrase of saying you have to spend money to make money, and this line of thinking is fairly accurate when it comes to this massive amount of wealth and the costs/investments these wealthy people make. If you start massively taxing this wealth, you limit the abilities of these companies to actually grown/invest/develop... or even just disincentivize companies from wanting to grow or make products.

To make things worse, many wealth taxes aren't just about 'income' but total assets every year. So suppose you've accrued $10mil total in wealth over your entire life, which includes on-hand cash and property, but you make $0 a year in income now that you've retired. These taxes tend to go towards your assets, so you'll get taxed based upon what you've already paid taxes on and own, and you'll have to liquidate your belongings in order to pay taxes. It gets even worse when it starts hitting people like farmers, whose net gain is pretty minimal considering the massive amount of investment and cost of their operations.

I get taxes are a necessary evil, but when rich people start to flee, perhaps people should start wondering if their tax code has moved from a necessary evil to blatant theft. As I said, most wealthy people (at least in the US) work to get there, being disciplined and fiscally responsible... yet somehow the governments who tend to be undisciplined and fiscally irresponsible are somehow benevolent when they take wealth from those people? This is why property rights are so important and should always be part of a taxation discussion.

[Akka]

Are you so patriotic that you'd stay in your birth country even though you had to pay much more in taxes?

Of course.
If I have to pay that much in taxes, it means I have so much money I can't spend it during my lifetime in any case.
Save looking at a meaningless number rising, being an asshole and abusing the country that allowed me to get so much of money in the first place, what would be the point of cheating taxes ?

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Most rich people are rich because they live within their means, to the point where they'd give the most savvy coupon shopper a run for their money.

Yeah, sure, people accumulated hundred of millions by saving 15 bucks on grocery lists

The brainwashing into believing that people can gain 1000 times what other get because they have 1000 times more merit (instead of simply having maybe twice as much merit and 500 times more leverage) is just baffling.

[Nerovar]

Now, if we extend this to companies and businesses at large, the concept tends to be similar... however, there's quite a bit of misconception about the wealth that people want to tax to death. Everyone assumes that the money is static, that these companies and owners have billions in wealth shoved under their mattresses, and any profit they make gets added to the pile that hides away. That's completely inaccurate, as that money is generally mobile and getting used. There's a common phrase of saying you have to spend money to make money, and this line of thinking is fairly accurate when it comes to this massive amount of wealth and the costs/investments these wealthy people make. If you start massively taxing this wealth, you limit the abilities of these companies to actually grown/invest/develop... or even just disincentivize companies from wanting to grow or make products.

Yet somehow all we see is massive stock buybacks and little to no increase in investments and wages when the rich get what they want.

Sounds good, doesn't work. Never gonna happen.
smh tbh fam

[Bigbazz]

Or be pissed off at the shitty system and either vote the idiots out, or leave.

You can't really vote the idiots out, because you're voting more idiots in. The problems are at the local level just as much as they are at the higher level, and the politicians at the top level are all cut from the same cloth, same educational institutes, similar backgrounds. Yes a lot of problems can be fixed if funds are given to the right causes, but the wastage has been a problem for a long time.

An anecdotal example, but the council for my area used to dig up the road outside my house every year just before the end of the fiscal year, they would dig the road and then re-fill the road over and over for a few weeks. So every year during this period I would wake up to roadworks directly outside my house in what was a quite upmarket small village on the outskirts of large town.

Effectively they were using up their leftover funds in order that they didn't get cut funding for the next year. It's just one example but this happens all over the UK in all public sectors and there is clearly no easy fix for what is incompetence and corruption. Yes people should be mad at the system, and this billionaire is only playing the system like smart businessman, but let people be mad at him, let them vent at a guy who clearly drove a bus over a lot of people to get to where he is.