Bernie Sanders back again

[tyrlaan]

Not really. While I'm still holding the cards close to my chest in terms of who I'd support, far too many candidates on the field right now, I'd have to say I support Elizabeth Warren over the rest at this particular point in time.

Yeah Warren's great. I'm curious how you are differentiating her from Bernie though.

[Fugus]

Yes, to clarify I did say with the finer portions of his proposals. Ultimately, I diverge with his views because he believes that the best way to encourage people to enter the market with a college degree is to remove barriers to education, where I believe that the best way is to provide economic incentives, even at private institutions, for fields of interest that are desperately needed in the country.

Completely understandable, I personally don't know where I stand on that one for sure. I went through college from 2000-2002 and Bush made it hard as hell while my friend went to college for longer and we both ended up having to drop out due to funding.

My friend was stuck with about $28,000 in debt. Ended up working 2 full time jobs to try and pay it off while taking care of himself and a child for over a decade. I ended up having to drop long before he did because I couldn't afford college while also trying to put a roof over my head.

Working 40 hours a week, I was only making about $218 a week after taxes (Made about $6 an hour working under cars getting burnt and covered in 100+ degree motor oil at Jiffy Lube). Tried to apply for government aid but they told me that my father made to much off of medical retirement for me to qualify for anything even though I didn't get any of it and didn't even live with him. But they told me that I had to legally be out of his house for 2 full years before his income didn't count towards mine.


Also back then, I tried for Food Stamps to try and keep me going, they told me that in order to qualify for it, I had to make less than $800 per month before taxes in total income and have less than $2,000 in total assets including my car and even then, I would only qualify for $50 a month as a single white male with no children. I would need a dependent to qualify for more. Was kinda sad when I mentioned it to one of my black friends only to have THEM look at me and say "Chad, you know you are too white for government aid". Never expected them to say that.

I know getting food stamps is easier now (On them while fighting the VA over a spinal injury and nerve damage) but no clue over college stuff because I have been out of that for about 15 years now.

[Adam Jensen]

We all know Trump is going to win, so why even bother?

No he's not.

He's lost the support of many of the independents who voted for him. He barely won 2016 and that was against a Democratic opponent who was already critically unpopular. He's not winning in 2020, even if he makes it to 2020.

[JohnBrown1917]

Sanders is on the very, very short list of people who I wouldn't vote for against Trump. And while people can and do get upset with that all they'd like... it's hardly a unique opinion. His popularity kind of plummets when you get away from online message boards and forums. And his particular brand of socialism is exactly what would help stir up Republicans and Libertarians to come out in force, and believe it or not they are a massive chunk of the country as much as people keep trying to wave that fact away.

You mean the brand of socialism that is not socialist at all and probably the most moderate you can get for a left-wing candidate?

- - - Updated - - -

Someone please tell Bernie to sit this one out.

Looking at all the donations he already got, its obvious plenty actually want him to run. I get that the centre and right-wing is against it, but tough luck, I suppose?

[Wyrt]

If you mean the type of socialist that points at a completely different system, from the ground up, and goes "you're an evil conservative if you don't want that?" without laying out any framework for how to make such a system possible, such as the Canadian health care system which would be impossible to implement in the US with the political and bureaucratic situation as it is without doing years if not a decade of ground work? Yes.

Ah yes, the classic "The system that works in other countries won't work in the US because reasons so we shouldn't even try" argument. Great one.

[Yuujin]

Ah yes, the classic "The system that works in other countries won't work in the US because reasons so we shouldn't even try" argument. Great one.

That's my personal favorite argument.

[Edge-]

Ah yes, the classic "The system that works in other countries won't work in the US because reasons so we shouldn't even try" argument. Great one.

That's not what they said at all. They said it would take years, if not a decade, of work to make it possible. Which isn't remotely unreasonable, especially considering the uphill battle it currently faces. The ACA was a great example of this, the Obama administration spent a year+ trying to educate and inform the public about the bill and it was still very controversial and poorly understood (in no small part due to misinformation and lies from conservatives like "death panels"). It took years before folks really started to see the benefits and understand the legislation, which is why we're now seeing people wanting to keep may aspects of it rather than simply "repeal and replace".

Big pivots like that require a whole lot of public buy-in that can only come from effective education on the topic.

[Kasierith]

Ah yes, the classic "The system that works in other countries won't work in the US because reasons so we shouldn't even try" argument. Great one.

More "this system won't work in the US without the proper groundwork being laid in terms of the government infrastructure, and if you aren't planning on building that up there's no point in discussing the matter further.". It can be done, but it's going to be a process that takes years, spanning several administrations.

That doesn't mean that it's not impossible to work towards the end goal. The best intermediary would be publically funded privately administered MCOs, since the issue at hand is that the government doesn't have the resources to manage the workload, not does it have the flexibility. It can't even handle the VA, a tiny snippet of the entire US population, but MCOs are far more flexible and significantly better buffered against politicking interfering with day to day care.

[Yuujin]

Big pivots like that require a whole lot of public buy-in that can only come from effective education on the topic.

Come on, Kiddo. We're the greatest country in the world! That's why we pay three times more than other developed countries for the SAME DRUGS manufactured by AMERICAN DRUG COMPANIES.

Because we have access to... the same... but better... drugs... cause... America...

[Edge-]

Come on, Kiddo. We're the greatest country in the world! That's why we pay three times more than other developed countries for the SAME DRUGS manufactured by AMERICAN DRUG COMPANIES.

Because we have access to... the same... but better... drugs... cause... America...

Not disagreeing in the slightest. But again, this takes time to address and isn't something that you can rush through no matter how much we may want it because we're sick of getting screwed over on pricing.

I'd much rather they took their time and do it right, with some intermediary steps to help ease things, rather than follow this administrations Bill O'Reilly approach to everything which amounts to, "Fuck it, we'll do it live." That's how you get better, longer term solutions and it's what we should be demanding.

[Yuujin]

Not disagreeing in the slightest. But again, this takes time to address and isn't something that you can rush through no matter how much we may want it because we're sick of getting screwed over on pricing.

I'd much rather they took their time and do it right, with some intermediary steps to help ease things, rather than follow this administrations Bill O'Reilly approach to everything which amounts to, "Fuck it, we'll do it live." That's how you get better, longer term solutions and it's what we should be demanding.

Yeah, or else we'll end up with another college loans for everyone, enjoy being in debt for a good part of your adult life, system we have today.

Though, the problem as I see it is unless you have a forced, quick change, no one in this day and age, baby boomers and millennial alike, are going to wait for the positive to take hold. You've got a country where at any given time 30-40% of its people are voting against their own best interest. How you plan to educate them is beyond me, but I'm down for camps if you are.

[matt4pack]

Sanders is on the very, very short list of people who I wouldn't vote for against Trump. And while people can and do get upset with that all they'd like... it's hardly a unique opinion. His popularity kind of plummets when you get away from online message boards and forums. And his particular brand of socialism is exactly what would help stir up Republicans and Libertarians to come out in force, and believe it or not they are a massive chunk of the country as much as people keep trying to wave that fact away.

So his popularity kind of plummets away from message boards but somehow the polls showed him performing better then Clinton if he was the candidate. Yeah ok.

And if you actually look at polling on specific issues you'll see most people tend to agree with his positions. It's just the socialism fear mongering that makes people vote against their own self interests.

[NED funded]

A shame because he will probably suck the air of more worthy candidates that have well thought-out plans.

[jeezusisacasual]

A shame because he will probably suck the air of more worthy candidates that have well thought-out plans.

I disagree he is wanting us to be more like Europe and less like America of 1983. Other ones include the disgusting ass likes of Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Joe Biden types who still love to hop in the sheets with corporations. He is forcing them to the left how is that a bad thing?

[Jimmy Woods]

Fucking love this guy already. Was watching Fox and Friends this morning talk to people in a diner in Florida about Bernie running and LOL the mouth breathers are all shitting in their pants with no good reason to not like Bernie and it makes me so happy to see these idiots lose their minds because they get triggered by a word. The one guy said his small business would collapse with a 70% tax rate LOLOL A few were talking about Venezuela and Cuba and one guy brought up arming teachers and gay night clubs LOLOL. Only person they interviewed with a rational opinion was a democrat who thought Bernie brought some good ideas to the table but was worried about him dividing the party.

[NED funded]

I disagree he is wanting us to be more like Europe and less like America of 1983. Other ones include the disgusting ass likes of Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Joe Biden types who still love to hop in the sheets with corporations. He is forcing them to the left how is that a bad thing?

More like Europe but what country? Because the more successful smaller countries in Europe are straight up tax havens.

[jeezusisacasual]

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Belgium. Those are the ones i am speaking about specifically with healthcare related policies that i would like to see expanded upon here. I want someone who will challenge corporations akin to FDR, bring back the busting of large scale corporations and the like.

[Kasierith]

So his popularity kind of plummets away from message boards but somehow the polls showed him performing better then Clinton if he was the candidate. Yeah ok.

And if you actually look at polling on specific issues you'll see most people tend to agree with his positions. It's just the socialism fear mongering that makes people vote against their own self interests.

The polls that said he would beat Clinton with the popular vote? The polls that said Clinton would beat Trump?

You put far, far too much merit on polls. Once the election is over, polls are meaningless. Even with Sanders pulling massive support from independents and even Republicans, he couldn't beat Clinton, either in delegates or votes Despite what you want to infer from your polls.

[Sunseeker]

While I support Sanders and his attempts to push Democrats to the left, I will not be voting for him.

[Collegeguy]

Bernie is the only one that stands a chance even though he would be old as hell.