This shit is hilarious Jessica looks like she was a little upset.
LMFAO here goes another one
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
Yeah depends on what you mean, just because you skin is a certain shade doesn't mean you are or you aren't and neither do borders. Plains Indians or Native Americans populated from the Midwest as North as Canada, and as South as Mexico, there are different Tribes in their Confederations broken down even further by bands.
I wouldn't Lakota or Pawnee as explicitly the same anymore than I would say they aren't closely related.
The whole thing about Ethnicity and cultures goes more to peoples choices rather than genetics.
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
Yeah people just want to be right so much on shit that doesn't matter, especially when it comes to science telling them some shit they don't want to hear or letting them down from their stupid ideas.
Like I.Q test, people love them as long as they interpret their meaning as something they want, but when they recognize what it actually means over what they wished it did, suddenly it doesn't really matter.
As if I.Q was completely responsible for bad choice.
Or Genetics some people have particularly higher testosterone levels, or at least until we recognize that doesn't have shit to do with anything, because again it comes down to choice.
Your Ancestry is really really no indication of anything you have done or what you are capable of either, because again it comes down to choice.
The problem is none of these things science itself can remedy people who act and choose to be stupid.
It can only remedy ignorance, that's it.
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
I tried one of these tests now im getting interviews with American detectives about the zodiac killings
Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.
Nope, not in my opinion nor based on history. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much in fighting between similar or exact groups, if there was any such thing as purity, or one true way, then there would be less diversity, not more.
Whether that is better or not is entirely based on what perspective you have, which has fuck all to do with where you live, or who or what you were born as per say. Obviously it has and can have an impact, but then so to are many many other things.
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Finally Ted Cruz we got YOU!
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
Mate I'm fine with discussing things, but stay respectful. Some parts of your response are truly bombastic/demagogue-like in nature. Please don't.
If you truly are educated on the subject, or are at least knowledgeable enough to find scientific valid information, you would find that the things I mentioned are widely shared critiques to the direct-to-consumer ancestry tests. Current methods only really allow one to give a statistical approach to how e.g. SNPs in current populations are correlated. Something I've forgotten to mention, which I'm sure you are aware of, is that due to the randomness of Mendelian inheritance and the hard-to-predict process of homologous recombination (linkage can help us to a degree) it's very hard, and in my personal opinion currently impossible, to find out your true biological genealogy, hence why the percentages are likely not very accurate (I think you mentioned that also). I've never claimed the tests cannot be reasonably accurate, at least to a degree, but there is certainly room for improvement and critique. Maybe I should have worded it as "take the result with a grain of salt", given the statistical shortcomings and as you mentioned further below, the not insignificant probability of consumers not educated on the subject to misinterpret the results.
Last edited by Arenis; 2019-02-20 at 09:31 AM. Reason: quote was lost
But now the biggest part,
is all about the imageand not the art
First off don't try to make pronouncements about things you declared I have done to try to control or manipulate the conversation.
I haven't attacked you personally, and if you are that attached to what you are saying as though you authored the arguments, well then there really isn't anything more to discuss. This is a forum dude, your credentials are up for grabs and You in no way authored the arguments you are making, I am!
And I am telling you from my opinion, and based on the same common references and knowledge I cede you having. I don't at all agree there is a majority or a consensus on what you are presenting.
DNA is a rock solid science, these DNA kit sites are exploiting that, if your argument is that there is something nefarious or more to it than they are applying, well then you are going to need to prove that.
However if it's to suggest that the science isn't valid because some other rhetoric is not, you are wrong.
I think were we can agree is that there is a stark difference between what science said, and what can sometimes being interpreted.
The Science in no way can explicitly determine things like traits and how they would effect individually specifically, especially with spit test.
But they can identify lineage, they do tell depending what I said, an estimate as to percentages based on matches and values for samples taken. It's a 60 to 200 Dollar test.
It doesn't do or have the same meaning as obviously a blood test screened and evaluating thousands, upon thousands of genes by a specific process that can range into the Thousands of dollars.
Which are typically used for things like determining disease, paternity, and so on
That doesn't mean Spit test aren't as accurate, they simply are limited in scope for information provided. It's legit, and any other details have been evaluated other than the Medical as being legally allowed.
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
You pretty much accused me of being some sort of copy-paste troll of random shit I find on the internet and being someone who has zero idea of what he is talking about. Next you just start calling some things 'bullshit', especially the disease screening (as far as you can call it screening). You can see perfectly well I'm not making egregious claims, but instead am fairly nuanced (in as far as I can judge myself). This does not give me the impression you go on rationale here.
As far as credentials go, I'm not comfortable with just openly displaying my real-life ID on a gaming-related forum. However, if it matters to you what I do, fine: I'm a bio-informatician by profession. While the spectra is wide, it can roughly be generalized to being a data-scientist/analyst (based on degree and subject occupancy) in the field of microbiology.
And, for the third time, I do not question the scientific method of using biological markers to cluster traits/features. Almost the entirety of genetics is based on statistics/stochastics or however you would please to define it. While we can be very certain of certain things, there always remains an aspect of uncertainty, therefore experimental verification is necessary for validation and falsification. The only thing I mentioned as possible shortcomings, are not directed at the method of clustering markers, but at the data-set used by these companies. The data-set is heavily skewed towards European subjects, and more distant / less-studied populations are hard to detect due to the scarcity of data. They also quite heavily rely on self-evaluated responses from their customers. So there is some uncertainty with their results; they don't tell the whole story.
In that sense I want to reiterate: I agree with you in that they are fine for the scope they are intended for: "how does my exome compare to other known exomes based on the current level of knowledge on markers?". But again, there are some limitations to it that do not allow it to tell the entirety of ones' ancestry and therefore the results should be taken with a grain of salt.
But now the biggest part,
is all about the imageand not the art
I didn't accuse you of anything, I simply commented on your post where you link unrelated or misapplied criticisms about the DNA testing from someone who is very much offering a qualified opinion.
As to the limitations of DNA kits, I am glad we agree there should be understandings about what those limits are, however I think that is emphasized, I mean it is a company and their rhetoric is chalked full a lot of emotion to sell their product, I applaud taking issue with that. I don't anyone taking what Scientific America is saying or even what you're saying as suggesting and being misapplied another which is to say.
DNA testing kids aren't based on rock solid science in and of themselves, despite however company break them down and suggest what they mean. Such as the % of different nations and origins, because I agree, that isn't so much science
In short it's based off science, but I don't think doing a DNA test could should be done out of anything but fun, or general interest, I don't think it should be taken as to confuse people as to who they are, based off what DNA results suggest.
Because you are correct, the article is in line with that as well.
My concern would always be where science ends, and magic and opinion begin there should be a clear distinction. Which is why I am glad all the sites 23andMe and AncestryDNA had to publish and make it clear about those limits especially like when it comes to traits and trying to diagnosis people with medical conditions or imply as such.
The best Comparisons I can make is for example I.Q which is also rock solid hard science, however what people interpret and apply that towards can be completely inappropriate.
And it doesn't matter what ones opinion is, the Researchers being biased, or some groups using I.Q as a way to apply bias and a belief system. Which shouldn't happen
One can disagree with the methods, I don't think the results can really be questioned, however what it means and how it is applied I think can.
It's science of course its not perfect, but as more data becomes available then and only then once it goes through the process will it change.
But like the DNA Science whether people like or dislike it or even the nonsense that gets misrepresented with it, the science is sound.
Last edited by Doctor Amadeus; 2019-02-20 at 12:40 PM.
Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis
Just be ready for what the results tell you about your heritage and don't invest too much of your identity in where you're from or you'll end up like this chick LOL
That reaction... haha amazing