Why didn't Baine challenge Sylvanas to mak'gora?

[Kyphael]

The worse thing that pharse actually fits to Baine, most of the forsakens, belves and goblins

Yeah but at least Forsaken, Goblins and Blood Elves make no bones about not giving a shit about the Horde and love of honor for the faction. (All three joined out of convenience and need.) Tauren were original members of Thrall's honor Horde, and Baine's yellow ass fears the monster destroying the founding values his own father died for.

[laplacedemon]

Its not a horde tradition. Its a orcish one.

Just like being a Warchief or naming the Warchief after you... You don't get to accept the good parts of the position while denying the bad half.

[prwraith]

I've given up trying to figure out the writers. It's bad writing if character X does Y just like because. There should be a reason they do Y instead of the more obvious Z.

[Syegfryed]

Thrall didn't cheat during either of his Mak'goras. Its as simple as that. There is no rule stating that one cannot use magic.

Please stop making things up and actually go learn about the *orcish* custom.

its explicit says you can only use one weapon, when it falls you use your fists

Thrall already had the doomhammer

you are welcomed about me teaching you the horde custom

[omeomorfismo]

even dont counting magic. but natural abilities? sylvanas can possess bodies, why she couldnt do it?

[Azelas]

1) Sylvanas would refuse

2) Baine would lose

3) If Baine was anywhere close to winning, Sylvanas would cheat, she doesn't give a shit about honor (rightly so if I might add)

4) If Baine loses then she just gives Sylvanas an even bigger legitimacy to her "government", it can backfire bad.


People love screaming BAD WRITING but don't stop 25 seconds to consider the consequences of what they're proposing.

[steelballfc]

Shortest anwser: because baine knows sylvanas Will cheat. And in a way he can't prove

why he can't prove ?!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Saurfang agreed to the terms of the war, and took part in its execution. It was only an unforeseen outcome (the burning of Teldrassil) that prompted him to consider Mak'gora against Sylvanas - but his standing was weakened by the fact he had not spoken out until that point. He lacked the standing to challenge her when he himself had originally agreed to the war, especially as the current course had directly or indirectly been a product of his own actions with regard to Malfurion.

i don't know why so many people ignore that Saurfang agreed to go to war willingly.

[Dagoth Ur]

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Saurfang agreed to the terms of the war, and took part in its execution. It was only an unforeseen outcome (the burning of Teldrassil) that prompted him to consider Mak'gora against Sylvanas - but his standing was weakened by the fact he had not spoken out until that point. He lacked the standing to challenge her when he himself had originally agreed to the war, especially as the current course had directly or indirectly been a product of his own actions with regard to Malfurion.

Does one even need a justifiable reason to invoke Mak'gora? Never heard of it before but now you've peaked my curiosity.

[steelballfc]

Sounds like the beginning of a joke lol

"So, a tauren and an undead engage in an orcish ritual..."

they need one shaman and one warlock for blessing

[Aucald]

Does one even need a justifiable reason to invoke Mak'gora? Never heard of it before but now you've peaked my curiosity.

Not specifically, no - it's a personal determination on the part of the person declaring it. Mak'gora is important to the Orcs, though; so I think the general view is that it's not to be called lightly or without substantial cause. Saurfang felt he didn't have one, and so didn't declare it against Sylvanas. Ga'nar was moved to declare it against his brother but was dissuaded as his challenge wasn't legitimate enough to carry through on.

[Wyattbw09]

i don't know why so many people ignore that Saurfang agreed to go to war willingly.

Because it’s a absurd argument. A solider, general, or even allied commander, in World War Two, could very well for the war itself, but find the dropping of nuclear weapons, a bridge too far. The fact that the bombs got dropped anyway does not make them complicit in the decision especially if they argued forcefully against it.

Saurfang, was for the taking of Tessidrill. He was even for holding the population hostage to ensure good behavior of the Alliance. However, he also actively tried to stop the men and women working the catapults to stop. He spoke out against the burning, loudly and forcefully. I don’t think simply because one chooses to go to war it means you are then choosing to be complicit in ANY act of war no matter how disgusting.

- - - Updated - - -

Does one even need a justifiable reason to invoke Mak'gora? Never heard of it before but now you've peaked my curiosity.

One thing that may have colored his decision not to challenge Sylvanas is that he does not want to lead the Horde. He wants to die, he wants honorable combat in which he can end his life in the way he feels a true orc warrior should.

The other reason is that Saurfang has a large part to play in the expansion, and they obviously want the Sylvanas/Saurfang storyline to be stretched out over the course of the entire expansion.

[steelballfc]

Because it’s a absurd argument. A solider, general, or even allied commander, in World War Two, could very well for the war itself, but find the dropping of nuclear weapons, a bridge too far. The fact that the bombs got dropped anyway does not make them complicit in the decision especially if they argued forcefully against it.

Saurfang, was for the taking of Tessidrill. He was even for holding the population hostage to ensure good behavior of the Alliance. However, he also actively tried to stop the men and women working the catapults to stop. He spoke out against the burning, loudly and forcefully. I don’t think simply because one chooses to go to war it means you are then choosing to be complicit in ANY act of war no matter how disgusting.

any war have civilians casualty, even in fictional world, he agreed to put his people and the enemy in danger, after furious battles aganist the legion, and he with other "honor" leaders ignored Sylv actions for years ( and the forsaken in general ), they have been doing shade-shit for ever, and all the horde leaders for the most part ignore it, he understood that His warchife is a Forsaken who can and will cross the line, from his view slyv is not Trustworthy, and YET he agreed willingly to go to war, so the burning of that tree is his fault as it's Sylv fault because she is the Warchife.

you as military leader can't control every solider, and civilians casualty is inevitable.
he didn't spoke about the burning loudly, it was 2 sentence, one of them "they will come to us now all of them" which mean you did something stupid because now they will attack us more.
War is un-Honorable act in it self.

[Mardux]

its explicit says you can only use one weapon, when it falls you use your fists

Thrall already had the doomhammer

you are welcomed about me teaching you the horde custom

The rules for mak'gora are dynamic (that means they change) for each fight. The only consistent rule across challenges is that its a fight until death or submission. Seeing as there were no ground rules set for the fight between Thrall and Garrosh, using magic wasn't forbidden, nor was using magic *and* the doomhammer. The only thing you taught me was that you don't actually understand the challenge. Hopefully, this helps you. "You are welcomed."

What next though? Are you going to try and say Thrall cheated for wearing armor? Or him cheating was why the doomhammer stopped working?

[Wyattbw09]

he didn't spoke about the burning loudly, it was 2 sentence, one of them "they will come to us now all of them" which mean you did something stupid because now they will attack us more.

Unfortunately, the cinematic lacks the time to sort of give anything much scope. However, I believe it was the online comic they released to supplement the in game story (correct me if I’m wrong). Makes it explicit that he actually spent the day trying to shut down the catapults and trying to get Sylvanas to stop.

[steelballfc]

Unfortunately, the cinematic lacks the time to sort of give anything much scope. However, I believe it was the online comic they released to supplement the in game story (correct me if I’m wrong). Makes it explicit that he actually spent the day trying to shut down the catapults and trying to get Sylvanas to stop.

he was trying to yell " stop please".

[Syegfryed]

The rules for mak'gora are dynamic (that means they change) for each fight. The only consistent rule across challenges is that its a fight until death or submission. Seeing as there were no ground rules set for the fight between Thrall and Garrosh, using magic wasn't forbidden, nor was using magic *and* the doomhammer. The only thing you taught me was that you don't actually understand the challenge. Hopefully, this helps you. "You are welcomed."

What next though? Are you going to try and say Thrall cheated for wearing armor? Or him cheating was why the doomhammer stopped working?

The other consistent rule is that mak'gora is a duel in equal terms, thats why they are dynamic, they adapt to be in the same ground, thats why only one weapon for each, magic only when the other use magic, and why that on ws bullshit

Again, you are welcomed.

[Jastall]

As a revealed traitor to the Horde at the time, I don't think Baine has the weight of authority to issue a true Mak'gora - everyone would see it through the lens of him attempting to escape punishment, not prove the rightness of his claim. He's no doubt aware of this fact himself which is why he doesn't issue the challenge, it's bad optics for him no matter what he does. You seem a similar situation with Ga'nar and Durotan in WoD, Durotan ignores Ga'nar's challenge because he knows it arises from emotionality without any loss of face to himself.

Mak'gora isn't just a "get out of jail/punishment free" card by challenging whoever it is that is charging you - you need standing in order to make the challenge, and the weight of authority or "honor" in order for it to stand.

That, and Sylvanas probably doesn't even need to cheat in order to wipe the floor with him, reinforcing her legitimacy. If she's allowed to use her bow and magic, he's not touching her. And he most definitely does not have the authority to demand a trial by melee only right after being outed as a traitor.

The time for Mak'gora was after the events of the pre-patch, or when she raised Derek. Now it's too late for Baine.

[Broken Fox]

The time for a Makgora was at the Battle for Lordaeron and he didn't call for one then cause he knew he'd lose. Sylvanas wouldn't even have to cheat, especially after they buffed the shit out of her in BFA.

[Lupinemancer]

Not sure if it didn't notice, but Baine is not an Orc.

[Verdugo]

Not sure if it didn't notice, but Baine is not an Orc.

Neither was Cairne.