DKs rock bottom again in Dazar'alor?

[BlackBoss]

The wound mechanic is actually pretty annoying. Would love to go back to a dot/pet centered spec.

[msdos]

Also a pain that there's no real stat priority for DKs. I think it really impacts performance when you can't specialize.

I dunno about Frost, but it's basically still haste, unfortunately.

[Sulika]

I want to add something important here that I feel often gets missed. Looking at the heroic data a 75th percentile DK parse for either spec is higher than the best performing specs 50th percentile parses. It is easy to get distracted by looking at how much better a shadow priest has it over an equally performing DK but to some extent that is a cop out. The far more interesting comparison is to look at how much damage a 75% DK does compared to a 50% DK, if you do that you will see that almost regardless of your current ability you can gain more DPS by upping your DK game than you can by swapping spec and playing some other spec at the same level you play DK now.

It is easy to fall back on the excuse of saying "there's nothing I can do, it's just my spec" but the reality is that pretty much everyone (regardless of their class or spec or where the individual specs line up in competitiveness in the current tier) can gain far more just by improving their own play than they can by swapping to another class and playing it at the same level and doing so is both more rewarding in the short term since it means you can keep playing the spec you love while improving and keeping your raid spot very safe indeed and also more rewarding in the long term since you can effectively become immune to the typical back and forth of balance changes.

I'm not trying to trivialise balance issues or dismiss them with a "lol get good" post, I just want to point out that to some extent it is disingenuous to complain about the fact that you could do more damage if you just rerolled warlock while failing to point out that by putting the same amount of hours and effort as it would take to level and gear an alt into improving your DK gameplay pretty much anyone can gain similar DPS increases without the need to reroll. Obviously the larger state of balance matters and no matter what you do in the current raid you won't be beating any very skilled warlocks but you know what, there aren't all that many very skilled warlocks out there but there is a hell of a lot of mediocre warlocks and as long as you are beating them your spot in your raid is safe as houses.

[Shelly]

I dunno about Frost, but it's basically still haste, unfortunately.

Most times if you weigh out your stats you'll get everything simming extremely close together with just weapon damage and strength standing out.

Not that you shouldn't aim for something like haste/mastery, but in really the amount of scaling per point seems extremely small in comparison to other classes - with the possible exception of mastery for blood.

[Th3Scourge]

Most times if you weigh out your stats you'll get everything simming extremely close together with just weapon damage and strength standing out.

Not that you shouldn't aim for something like haste/mastery, but in really the amount of scaling per point seems extremely small in comparison to other classes - with the possible exception of mastery for blood.

You don't want Mastery for Blood. Versa/Haste is far better. Mastery is a preferred stat for M+ for unholy/frost for the raw aoe dps output DKs can dish out

[Sarrgoth]

Sometimes you're king sometimes you're shit.. stop crying... you can't be top of the charts all the time. End of story.

This is the most shit type of answer. Acceptance of bad gameplay design

[msdos]

Most times if you weigh out your stats you'll get everything simming extremely close together with just weapon damage and strength standing out.

Not that you shouldn't aim for something like haste/mastery, but in really the amount of scaling per point seems extremely small in comparison to other classes - with the possible exception of mastery for blood.

It's still haste.

[Shelly]

You don't want Mastery for Blood. Versa/Haste is far better. Mastery is a preferred stat for M+ for unholy/frost for the raw aoe dps output DKs can dish out

I was speaking purely in regards to % gain per point. Vers seems flatline for just about everyone, but a lot of classes start with a secondary stat boost which can make adding onto that easier.

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It's still haste.

It certainly leads but if you have a choice in armor that's a 15 level difference that was hate/mastery or haste/crit at 385 and your other option was verse/mastery at 400, you'd take the 400.

Whereas on a fury warrior the 385 more often than not would sim higher depending on the level of haste.

Strength just wins out for DKs to the point where you'll always pick the higher item level over attempting to maintain a specific secondary stat gearing.

I'd still love to get to 25 to 30% haste on my Unholy but I don't see that coming anytime soon.

[Th3Scourge]

I was speaking purely in regards to % gain per point. Vers seems flatline for just about everyone, but a lot of classes start with a secondary stat boost which can make adding onto that easier.

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It certainly leads but if you have a choice in armor that's a 15 level difference that was hate/mastery or haste/crit at 385 and your other option was verse/mastery at 400, you'd take the 400.

Whereas on a fury warrior the 385 more often than not would sim higher depending on the level of haste.

Strength just wins out for DKs to the point where you'll always pick the higher item level over attempting to maintain a specific secondary stat gearing.

I'd still love to get to 25 to 30% haste on my Unholy but I don't see that coming anytime soon.

Specifically for tanks because of the % damage reduction

[msdos]

I was speaking purely in regards to % gain per point. Vers seems flatline for just about everyone, but a lot of classes start with a secondary stat boost which can make adding onto that easier.

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It certainly leads but if you have a choice in armor that's a 15 level difference

You're preaching to the choir. Maybe if I validated you before hand you wouldn't have felt the need?

Our best traits are flat strength buffs. I think we know the strength of strength.

[Raiz]

This is the most shit type of answer. Acceptance of bad gameplay design

Acceptance of bad gameplay design ? Come on... You're overexagerating.

[Xath]

I don't really understand all of you...

The difference in DPS is NEGLIGIBLE. You're crying about 15% difference at best (not counting the top one because there will always be an exception).
You know what's even more laughable ? That most of us, even myself, can't play at our best. Which means we could've narrowed the gap especially since our class is easier to play than some of the top ones.

For Eff Sake, I think you guys need to take a break.

Edit : Just realized I said exactly the same thing a few post earlier. I guess it went in deaf ears. Which is pretty ironic considering I'm deaf... Oh well, I guess I'll avoid this thread for a while then.

15% is a massive difference lol let's say it's 2k which is assuming everyone in the raid is doing under 14k by a decent margin which yikes. Over the course of a 240 second fight that adds up to 480k damage. let's say Jaina has 48 million health which is roughly accurate during the course the boss fight you do a full percent less of the bosses health than an optimal class and that's assuming it's only a 15% gap. Considering how many first kills are with few people up that 1% damage means a lot especially since jaina is a lot longer than a 4 minute fight.

[Baddok21]

Well they did the standard spec nerf going into 8.1 with the BoS 10% nerf, however they didnt buff unholy in PvE enough for it to be the new DPS spec as they seems to want everyother tier to have a different dominant DPS spec.

I think they held off on buffing Unholy more in PvE Because of its PvP strength so that its not Unholy or bust in PvE and PvP however this has left us in the spot of having 1 good PvP spec and no good PvE specs (DPS).

Legion
Emerald Nightmare = Unholy
Nighthold = Frost
Tomb of Sargeras = Unholy
Antorus = Frost

WoD
Highmaul = Frost
Blackrock Foundry = Unholy
Hellfire Citadel = Frost (then nerfs after week 1) = Unholy

I dont view this as coincidence I just swap specs as nessecary and pray i dont have to play Oblieration Antorus Frost (except the one fight i got too go BoS).

[msdos]

If you don't do M+, then yeah, I can see why you look at Unholy as not good in PVE. If you're guildless and surrounded by koolaid drinkers, then you may struggle with Unholy, people take stigma in this game and really run away with it.

But if you're actually able to perform in a high key, people will be blown away by the numbers and the utility. You still add grip to the group, 2 stuns and people don't talk about how good chains of ice is on necrotic week until they see someone using chains on every single mob to help the tank kite.
Unholy utility blows myself away. I feel like I'm getting away with something too good to be true.

I think they held off on buffing Unholy more in PvE Because of its PvP strength

It's weird to me how they do this, but then they nerf Frost's pvp toolkit in the name of M+ balance. Without the stuns, Frost is unplayable in PVP. Frost also becomes more useless in PVP the more central BoS becomes.. It's a disaster.

[Somewhatconcerned]

The wound mechanic is actually pretty annoying. Would love to go back to a dot/pet centered spec.

Agree 100%.

I wish they would make it either play like Survival Hunter (dots that play off one another and change your rotation) or Demo Warlock (summon hordes and hordes of minions).

Wound mechanic sucks.

[Ange]

Buffing unholy while keeping PvP balance in check is not that hard:

=> get rid of necrotic strike

If DH, Fury, ... can get away with insane PvP damage I dont mind getting the same numbers without necrotic strike.

[Muajin76]

ahh...the days where DKs did sick damage. Blizz likes to eliminate and nerf fun..

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Well, DW Frost overtook Blood quite easily and left it in the dust. So it was only king for one patch cycle which was Ulduar and a bit of ToC.

DW frost is better than DW unholy or DW blood. :P

[msdos]

Taking away Necrotic Strike would be like taking away Soul Reaper. I believe it's been there since day one and used to remove HoTs?

Anyway, I still agree over all. Just remove it and make the Abom baseline because it's cooler and better because it doesn't cost runes.

[Adlian]

At this point i dont care anymore, simply waiting for Classic. Blizz dont care about DKs and providing feedback is like talking to the wall.

[Kendros]

Taking away Necrotic Strike would be like taking away Soul Reaper. I believe it's been there since day one and used to remove HoTs?

Anyway, I still agree over all. Just remove it and make the Abom baseline because it's cooler and better because it doesn't cost runes.

Nah necrotic was introduced in cata so was SR.