Sick of negativity against WoW!

[Frontenac]

I'm tired of negativity. Period.

It's like nothing can be done anymore without an uproar of rage and negativity. "It sucks!" "The producers hate the fans!" "This is just a cashgrab!" "This is not my [insert favorite franchise]!" "They are raping my childhood!" "This is made by a bunch of SJWs!" "No, this is racist (or homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic, antisemitic, etc. etc.)!" They are goind to do X? It's gonna suck so hard!" "RRAAAAAAAAGE!"

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The negativity comes from love, not hate for the game.

Yes, and that's a part of the problem.

[Tazr]

Change can be good.
Cancer is also change, but not good.
BFA is cancer.

This. It seems every change that adds quality of life and/or fun, and that players universally like (Have Friends Will Travel, leveling with flying, automagically getting flight paths when you hit a certain level - I think all from Cata - and in Legion, getting honor via World Quests) gets taken away or badly nerfed. Unpopular features get doubled down on.

Features that SEEM like they'll be good turn out to be PR-spinned. War Mode sounded terrific. No more force flagging if you're a PvE player. No worrying about PvP realms if you want to play with friends and you get moved to their realm. Instead, I get force flagged constantly because they designed BFA to trick you into stumbling into near invisible PvP camps that abut or block easy access to WQs. Even the terrain funnels you into opposing faction flag areas. Of course, when you get force flagged, you don't get any War Mode perks. I also have a much harder time finding groups for anything, because it's often a dozen war mode groups and one non-warmode group. Given I was on a PvE realm that had War Mode forced upon it, this is NOT acceptable. I started on PvP realms and paid to move to a PvE realm for a reason. And even in non-war mode, I still have to apparently suffer quality of life losses and class nerfs because of things that are "too OP" for PvP. Gee, that seems fair.

That said, the biggest cancer for BFA is the "hours played" metric used for shareholders. Counting paid subs made it behoove devs to design for player enjoyment. "Hours Played" has changed that to a need/desire to design for extending that metric at all costs. The result: RNG that seems TOO coincidentally predictable (you need it, you don't get it. You DON'T need it, you get it), gating compounded by rep grinds, compounded by a zillion unique currency grinds, compounded by achievements and/or RNG. I find myself frequently afking (like I am now) due to lack of interest in what I'm doing - which of course benefits the "hours played" metric! I'm logged in and it's counting as "hours played" - doesn't matter if I'm actually DOING anything. Does this seem like a metric that encourages good/entertaining game design?

People like GOOD change. I've played since vanilla. I've seen a lot of GOOD change (no need to stock ammo, worry about pet happiness, no need to train different types of weapons, no need to endlessly grind shards for locks). I love having new classes and (if there's actual entertaining content) new races, but there's also a lot of BAD change (no flying and flying that is increasingly delayed -even upon level cap, the original standard), even as terrain is more annoying and difficult to traverse with every new expac).

They fired the wrong people. We need MORE CMs, GMs and QA, and different Devs.

[crono14]

When you change your MMORPG so much that it can not really even be called an RPG anymore, you are probably gonna get some negativity for it. We have enough games out there that provide inst-gratification and are more suited for casual play. I want to play an RPG where I have some control and progression is meaningful for my character. I could argue this has largely been abandoned since probably WoTLK or so. Overall though, my class is boring as hell to play right now, so it makes interacting with anything in the game even worse.

[Fabinas]

WoW sucks since Legion. Even WoD was tolerable, despite the evident lack of content. There can be no positivity with the current dev team.

[Exkrementor]

I don't understand people that can be so against changes. Does people really want the game to stand still forever and never evolve?
So things changes, everything changes. I do enjoy every expansion because they are different, not every may had the best systems.
But i like when the developers are going out of their comfort zone and try new things and new systems, and not just stay in the past.

We want the game to be good. BFA isnt good. Legion had tons of new things and most of them were good.

The problem is that everyone told blizzard since Bfa alpha that the game is shit but they dindnt do nothing. Thats why people are rightfully angry.

[Bigbazz]

If it wasn't so shite people wouldn't be negative, no need to be sad.

[Adamas102]

/snip

Going back to your original post you said that getting rid of the “40-50 point skill tree” made no sense. I said that it did make sense because it wasn’t designed for this many expansions. The rest is just semantics. It’s one of several systems encompassed within the overall character progression system and is therefor not necessary for character progression.

Going from 51 talent points to 6 isn’t a matter of progression or regression when the core issue is that the original system was flawed to begin with and couldn’t really be kept for more than a few expansions anyway.

[MoanaLisa]

That said, the biggest cancer for BFA is the "hours played" metric used for shareholders. Counting paid subs made it behoove devs to design for player enjoyment. "Hours Played" has changed that to a need/desire to design for extending that metric at all costs. The result: RNG that seems TOO coincidentally predictable (you need it, you don't get it. You DON'T need it, you get it), gating compounded by rep grinds, compounded by a zillion unique currency grinds, compounded by achievements and/or RNG. I find myself frequently afking (like I am now) due to lack of interest in what I'm doing - which of course benefits the "hours played" metric! I'm logged in and it's counting as "hours played" - doesn't matter if I'm actually DOING anything. Does this seem like a metric that encourages good/entertaining game design?

Where do they actually report hours played to shareholders? What is it called? I know they sometimes report something like this for ATVI but I can't recall seeing it for WoW. It wasn't in the last report at all that I could see.

An alternate explanation, one I've made more than once, was that the lack of anything to do in WoD was something they decided would never happen again. So there is stuff to do. It may well be stuff you don't like to do but there's something to do. Personally I think that is a much stronger driver for the success of the game than some metric that's reported once a quarter (sometimes) and is mixed in with CoD, Candy Crush, and 100 other games that all sit under the ATVI umbrella.

[prwraith]

Change can be good.
Cancer is also change, but not good.
BFA is cancer.

Pretty good descriptor in the first reply.

[FelPlague]

That's not why people are upset. If anything, the lack of changes are what bugs people more.

If you're sick of negativity towards WoW, then hold WoW to a higher standard. Don't blame players for being unhappy with a shit game state.

lack of changes? what?
people are mostly mad they are changing things. its the whole "call of duty" paradox
people claim "we want no changed innovation" but then call of duty comes out with the exact same game and it sells millions, and everyone complains about any changes they made

[FelPlague]

Change can be good.
Cancer is also change, but not good.
BFA is cancer.

every expansion every patch, everything is described as "cancer"

BC was cancer for ruining vanilla
wotlk was cancer for making the game more casual
cata was cancer for ruining the old world and lfr
mop was cancer cause lol kung fu panda
wod was cancer cause wod
legion was cancer cause legion
bfa was cancer cause bfa

[Renedric]

Changes are absolutely retarded when you already have a winning recipe. Blizzard had a winning recipe and ended up shitting all over it. I dont know where you got this idea that change is always good. Change is 50/50.

[Phookah]

People are mad because they love the game, and it's turning into a pile of shit.


There, much easier for you to understand now.

[MoanaLisa]

They call it "engagement" don't they.

It's directly reported upon. Micro transactions and "engagement". MTX and MAU.

MTX has nothing to do with hours played.

MAU is monthly active users. Log in once in a calendar month and stay for a couple of minutes, you're a monthly active user. Log in 200 times in the same month to the same game and stay for hours, still one active user.

Hours played in WoW has no direct effect at all on revenues.

[schwank05]

I don't understand people that can be so against changes. Does people really want the game to stand still forever and never evolve?
So things changes, everything changes. I do enjoy every expansion because they are different, not every may had the best systems.
But i like when the developers are going out of their comfort zone and try new things and new systems, and not just stay in the past.

I don't mind change, but the game could have just kept with the same design since Wrath and kept adding new zones and raids and I would probably still play it. Once CATA ended and King Fu pandaland came out I was done with the game.

[Martymark]

every expansion every patch, everything is described as "cancer"

There was a lot I disliked about Cata, but BFA made me quit WOW after 14 years. I'll likely never go back.

[FelPlague]

Changes are absolutely retarded when you already have a winning recipe. Blizzard had a winning recipe and ended up shitting all over it. I dont know where you got this idea that change is always good. Change is 50/50.

because people ASKED for change.
people asked for mario, pokemon, sports games, call of duty, assassin creed, etc. people ask them to change
almost like people say WE WANT CHANGE but they dont know what they want, cause really they just want the exact same thing...

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There was a lot I disliked about Cata, but BFA made me quit WOW after 15 years. I never plan to go back.

You survived wod, but "BFA is too much for you"
mind telling me why?
how did you survive 1 content patch, and almost a year and a half of NOTHING

but 6 months of 2 content patches is TOO MUCH!

[evertonbelmontt]

I don't understand people that can be so against changes. Does people really want the game to stand still forever and never evolve?
So things changes, everything changes. I do enjoy every expansion because they are different, not every may had the best systems.
But i like when the developers are going out of their comfort zone and try new things and new systems, and not just stay in the past.

Then I guess you agree with the people saying BFA sucks. It's almost a copy of Legion in many, MANY ways. To be clear, legion was so good that they thought it would work out the same but they fucked up class design so bad that even the best expansion would feel shit to play as it is.

[FelPlague]

Then I guess you agree with the people saying BFA sucks. It's almost a copy of Legion in many, MANY ways.

every expansion is almost a copy of every expansion..
welcome to wow, 1 expansion does not suddenly "CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME!"
each expansion changes a few things. Mop was the closest to "change the entire game" as it was the only one to fundementally change a massive amount of core systems.
TBC is like vanilla, wotlk is like tbc, cata is like wotlk, mop is like cata, wod is like mop, legion is like wod, bfa is like legion.

[evertonbelmontt]

Legion is like WoD? What are you smoking? MoP is like Cata?

lol

And I added more to that quote for clarification. You can't defend class design in BfA, I think not even you is this... delusional.