Captain Marvel [2019]

[Malaky]

Except we know that that's bullshit. If they didn't have the ability, talent, and merit they wouldn't have the job of film critic in the first place.

Do they? Affirmative action is a thing, as is hiring people of color and women as a preventive measure to keep the angry crowds "you're 80% men!" away.
I can see why some would get the job but not be invited at the major events.

Experience can only be gained through them actually getting said assignments. There's an entire study done on this stuff and white men get the vast majority of assignments to cover the top grossing films. It's not because they're somehow more qualified to write about a movie they watched.

Perhaps, but then again, I'm seeing no cabal here.

I love finding out the people who hate calls for inclusion. Really reveals their character.

Superficial "inclusion" that disregards the individual is well worth hating.
Elevating or downplaying people based on race and gender is racism and sexism, doesn't matter if they're being put up or down.

It does reveal your character... maybe not in the way you'd expect.

[Skulltaker]

I love finding out the people who hate calls for inclusion. Really reveals their character.

So, people of colour were excluded from press events? Or Women, for that matter? Because 'not being present' and 'not welcome' are two completly different pars of shoes. If you ask for more people of colour, or women, to be present at whatever event, that's inclusion. I'm all for that. If you pick any group of people and say I don't want them at my events anymore, based on their colour of skin and/or sex, that's racism. You can drape inclusion all over it as much as you want, but if you don't consider people for a job based on their ethnicity, or sex, or beliefs or whatever dumb reason people find these days to discriminate against each other, that's fucked up. And that holds true from ANY part of the spectrum.

Please, tell me, what would you say if the NBA said, you know, this is a predominantly black sport, we'd really like more inclusion, so, we won't hire any black players anymore. Is that inclusion to you? And do you think it would be treated as such? Of course not. The people on the court should be the best that you can get there. And the very same can be said about any given position in the world.

Now I am fully aware that there still is a great deal of racism, nepotism and sexism in the job market, but you don't achieve anything by lashing out at the lowest end of the market at all. Excluding interviewers from press events is like lashing out at retailers for company policy. They can't do anything about it. They'll just get frustrated. Take it up with corporate. If Larson feels that the people who were sent to interview her aren't doing a good job and got there because they are men, or white, or both, THAT is an issue. If she thinks that them being white, or men, is an issue, that's fucked up.

[Malaky]

So, now these people are getting the assignment because of the color of their skin or their sex, while others who worked just as hard to get there are excluded for the sake of inclusion. They must feel so proud of their acomplishments. Sounds perfectly reasonable. You know what, why don't we print a catalogue of interviewers sorted by race and gender, so celebrities can pick them out in a palette like you pick out drapes for your apartments?

Perfectly put, and shows the fundamental lie behind this sort of "inclusion".

[grexly75]

So, people of colour were excluded from press events? Or Women, for that matter? Because 'not being present' and 'not welcome' are two completly different pars of shoes. If you ask for more people of colour, or women, to be present at whatever event, that's inclusion. I'm all for that. If you pick any group of people and say I don't want them at my events anymore, based on their colour of skin and/or sex, that's racism. You can drape inclusion all over it as much as you want, but if you don't consider people for a job based on their ethnicity, or sex, or beliefs or whatever dumb reason people find these days to discriminate against each other, that's fucked up. And that holds true from ANY part of the spectrum.

Please, tell me, what would you say if the NBA said, you know, this is a predominantly black sport, we'd really like more inclusion, so, we won't hire any black players anymore. Is that inclusion to you? And do you think it would be treated as such? Of course not. The people on the court should be the best that you can get there. And the very same can be said about any given position in the world.

Now I am fully aware that there still is a great deal of racism, nepotism and sexism in the job market, but you don't achieve anything by lashing out at the lowest end of the market at all. Excluding interviewers from press events is like lashing out at retailers for company policy. They can't do anything about it. Take it up with corporate. If Larson feels that the people who were sent to interview her aren't doing a good job and got there because they are men, or white, or both, THAT is an issue. If she thinks that them being white, or men, is an issue, that's fucked up.

Very well put, but I gave up on trying any sort of conversation with the person you are quoting, as I think I would get a much better and more concise conversation talking to a brick wall..

- - - Updated - - -

Perfectly put, and shows the fundamental lie behind this sort of "inclusion".

Exactly there is inclusion and then there is "inclusion".. And the inclusion being bandied around in this thread seems more like exclusion..

[dippinsawse]

What's superficial about sending the target demo to cover a film instead of whatever random white dude you always send to cover the top movies?

You just destroyed your own argument. By that logic men are the core demographic for super hero movies, comics, sports, video games etc etc....all the things people fighting for "inclusion" want to deny as being just for white men.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

How am I a victim in calling out racist and sexist speeches? You're not making any sense.

If anything it's those people of color and females who are the victims as they're being treated as monoliths, which is also very racist and sexist.

People are individuals, there's no indication they'd do any different or better than white men. Everyone should be invited on merit, and merit alone. Any other consideration unnecessary.

I don’t get how she was treating them as monoliths, she said that when a movie is made for minority’s it would be great for them to be invited to studios and to see what they think as the movies are meant for them. She doesn’t say any where that they all have to think the same or that they are all interchangeable just that it would be good to hear from the target audience what they think.

[Tonkaden]

Jesus christ sometimes I wonder how you people go outside.

Uh, most of them don't.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The "anti-sjw" crowd is just people that are bored of being told they're racist/sexist for not thinking incredibly average (or shitty) movies are amazing. When people keep insisting that crap things are amazing just because of whatever social-political-statement they're meant to be making, there's going to be greater pushback from all the people that think they're just shit and who's opinions are just getting dismissed as bigotry.

People were told they were sexist for not liking Ghostbusters, but that was an embarrassingly shit movie.

People were told they were sexist/racist for not liking The Last Jedi, but that was a shit movie that treated the franchise as a joke.

People were told they were sexist/racist for not liking Marvels new "diverse" comics, but they were mostly fucking awful and the writers lack of experience showed.

People were told they were racist for not thinking BlackPanther was the greatest Oscar Worthy CBM ever, but it's just an OK Marvel movie (with some great characters but awful CGI).

People were told they were sexist for not thinking Jodie Whittaker is the greatest Doctor Who ever, but the new series is just pretty atrociously written crap.

This is bull and always has been it’s never been about not liking be called racist or sexist it’s always been them being there own group
Of sjw’s and wanting to push there own narrative.

There is Proabbly no better example then riri willams who before she was even iron heart got blasted to high heavens when she was announced. No one knew the quaility her comics would have people just saw a headline and started freaking out because she was a black girl who was appenrly going to be the new iron man even though the announcement from marvel said it self she wouldn’t be called iron man.

The same thing then happens with pretty much every other minority based thing people complain about it and pretend that it has any thing to do with the quaility when in reality it doesn’t.

- - - Updated - - -

You just destroyed your own argument. By that logic men are the core demographic for super hero movies, comics, sports, video games etc etc....all the things people fighting for "inclusion" want to deny as being just for white men.

If I remember right she doesn’t actually site the comic movies she cites a wrinkle in Time and some other movie. But even then the comic movies are not targeted at only white men so her argument about inviteing more of the target audience wouldn’t apply.

[Malaky]

I don’t get how she was treating them as monoliths, she said that when a movie is made for minority’s it would be great for them to be invited to studios and to see what they think as the movies are meant for them. She doesn’t say any where that they all have to think the same or that they are all interchangeable just that it would be good to hear from the target audience what they think.

Assuming it is true that the movie was made for a particular minority, which is very debatable, why does she assume that skin color makes you a valid representative of black people in judging their perception?
Maybe the person invited is an incompetent POC with widly bizarre tastes that is gonna trash the movie.

The point is that speechs like these disregard the individual in favour of melanin, and that is never okay. Doesn't matter if the person is question is being invited or refused invite on that basis.

It sounds nice on the surface, but this is yet another attack at merit, competence and ability in favour of tribalism.

This is bull and always has been it’s never been about not liking be called racist or sexist
The same thing then happens with pretty much every other minority based thing people complain about it and pretend that it has any thing to do with the quaility when in reality it doesn’t.

It is one hundred percent truth.
All that matters is quality, good stories, good characters. Doesn't matter what skin color or sex they are, so long they're good.

And when they're not, when people say they're not, and the only response is getting accused of racism and sexism, there's gonna be pushback. It's only natural.

Besides if I remember right Marvel had to lay off a number of series with people like Riri Williams because they alienated their core audience and nobody was reading them. Sounds like the attack on Riri wasn't as much because of her skin color but because people saw this coming from a mile away and voiced their just concerns.

[eschatological]

This topic has veered too far off the course of actually discussing media. Politics and agendas belong in GenOT, not this subforum. You can discuss
and critique a film in this subforum, but seeing as this film isn't out yet, assigning a "message" to it before seeing it is offtopic. Keep it on topic - the character of Captain Marvel, the movie, the MCU, etc. Any further talk of politics and social agendas will be infracted for being off-topic.

[Martymark]

The film looks mediocre so I'll probably just pirate it and watch it at 1.25 speed.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It is one hundred percent truth.
All that matters is quality, good stories, good characters. Doesn't matter what skin color or sex they are, so long they're good.

And when they're not, when people say they're not, and the only response is getting accused of racism and sexism, there's gonna be pushback. It's only natural.

Besides if I remember right Marvel had to lay off a number of series with people like Riri Williams because they alienated their core audience and nobody was reading them. Sounds like the attack on Riri wasn't as much because of her skin color but because people saw this coming from a mile away and voiced their just concerns.

I’ll get to your other point after.

Quaility should be the only thing that matters but in almost every case of anti sjw’s running off with something they won’t wait to see the qauility of the thing they just see an announcement and go nuts like with riri.

You also remember comply and utterly wrong riri wasn’t cut she has her on line still going.

Literally none of the Diverse line was cut you must have been reading nonsense. Female Thor’s story came to an end like it was planned from day one and the only other case that comes even close is cho who was Proabbly the least talked about of all the diverse hero’s.

The attack in riri was soly due to her race and sex and had nothing at all to do with quality.

Edit: guess I won’t go back to the other point due to the mod note I’ll just stay on the topic of marvel.

[The Stormbringer]

Political shit or no, I'm a bit burned out on superhero movies in general.

I'll just.. wait for the download I guess.

Yeah, I felt that way a few movies after the Avengers. I did go see GOTG2 and Deadpool, though.

[klepp0906]

Surprised there is not a topic already.

First reviews seem to be coming in really strong.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a2...s-brie-larson/

Hopefully if the movie is good, the anti SJW crowd won’t review bomb it just because they hate Larsen.

course theyre coming in strong. if not it would be perceived as what you mentioned, and they cant have that.

[Malaky]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...enated-readers

?

And again, quality is all that matters. Voicing concerns is legitimate when there are signs that quality is taking the backseat in favour of... other stuff.

(This much should be okay since it's about the MCU, right mod? Well I'll stop now anyway)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...enated-readers

?

And again, quality is all that matters. Voicing concerns is legitimate when there are signs that quality is taking the backseat in favour of... other stuff.

(This much should be okay since it's about the MCU, right mod? Well I'll stop now anyway)

That is just some retailers saying they don’t sell and then other retailers saying they do marvel saying they aren’t selling or cutting any has no basis in reality.

“We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! … So we’re getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we’re making is to ensure we don’t lose focus [on] our core heroes.”

[RobertoCarlos]

I love her confidence. She seems powerful but still relatable.

Gonna enjoy seeing her riff against Tony and Dr Strange.

Not ready for that quip fest!

[Jshadowhunter]

I don't know about that. I think her Warbird phase (dealing with recovering from alcoholism and all the other shit that happened to her) was the most interesting one. I personally liked her as Binary though. I'd love to see a modern version, Carol fully embracing the powers and Binary identity and going on some cosmic adventures.

But we all know that's not gonna happen. She has to fight misogynist patriarchy because that boat totally hasn't lost its flair already.

[Malaky]

That is just some retailers saying they don’t sell and then other retailers saying they do marvel saying they aren’t selling or cutting any has no basis in reality.

Either way you get the point.

[Elenashal]

OMG can`t wait