BiS-list for every stage (release - Naxxramas)(all classes)

[Hottage]

Viability in PvP is different than in PvE, not to mention Grand Marshal was just time played in BGs and some coordination among the top-ranks to sort who gets GM.

Time playing was a huge factor no doubt, but somehow I still managed to get Grand Marshal playing 16h a day when a Horde on my server only ever got Warlord while account sharing with his brother 24h a day.

There was also no Rank 14 mafia on my realm, in fact an entirely different PvP team also produced a Grand Marshal the same week I got it (a human male warlock called Ariane, if I remember right).

As Ret, you were at least part of the dead weight. Even if played superb, you aren't putting out the numbers of some of the other DPS. Sure, you couldn't have 20 afk/dead people in AQ40 and Naxx but you didn't need 40 optimal classes either, just a majority.

Would I have produced more DPS as a warlock or mage? Yes.
Did I provide utility which would otherwise have been unavailable? Yes.
Would my guild have taken me if they thought my lower DPS wasn't offset by the additional utility? No.

[anon5123]

I don't know what you're talking about. Hands of Power is not on the list for holy paladins. It's Harmonious Gauntlets and has been this whole time....

It definitely wasn't, but thanks for changing it and then trying to claim I'm wrong.

[LionSinMaikeru]

What ? How can you say this when people on this forum complain how easy it is to get gear, but you want a level 40 to be BIS. And old content is in retail more relevant than farming one item out of it and steamrolling it.

I understood virtually none of this comment.

But what I did understand: the level cap was 60 back in the day. Raids were made for max level and thus had level 60 bosses. If you're a fresh 60 no you shouldn't be able to take on max level stuff and it makes PERFECT sense for you to have a bunch of gear from levels 40-59 because theoretically you shouldn't be able to have epic / rare gear of your level without conquering that content.

In today's WoW you can be a fresh level 120 and have a majority of your gear that is rare / epic of relevant level without even stepping foot in a raid.

In old WoW you probably would not have gotten a piece of gear that was rare / epic of level 60 until you've done a few endgame raids and your gear was more of a mashup of greens and random blues. Blues being rare.

That design was perfect.

[ArenaDk]

I understood virtually none of this comment.

But what I did understand: the level cap was 60 back in the day. Raids were made for max level and thus had level 60 bosses. If you're a fresh 60 no you shouldn't be able to take on max level stuff and it makes PERFECT sense for you to have a bunch of gear from levels 40-59 because theoretically you shouldn't be able to have epic / rare gear of your level without conquering that content.

In today's WoW you can be a fresh level 120 and have a majority of your gear that is rare / epic of relevant level without even stepping foot in a raid.

In old WoW you probably would not have gotten a piece of gear that was rare / epic of level 60 until you've done a few endgame raids and your gear was more of a mashup of greens and random blues. Blues being rare.

That design was perfect.

I think you don’t understand. There are low level items which are better than level 60 epics. And that is bs

[Lolsteak]

I don't know what you're talking about. Hands of Power is not on the list for holy paladins. It's Harmonious Gauntlets and has been this whole time....

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Both Felstriker and Ironfoe are BiS, by far, but they're super hard to get. That's why they're not on the sheet.

The whole point of a BiS list is to list what is best in slot, By omitting items simply because they're "hard to get" you've defeated the entire point of the post to begin with

I appreciate the effort you've put into this but if it has to be corrected by the people you're trying to inform in the first place then it's rather pointless

[Crillam]

No enha list?
I call BS!

[faithbane]

Thanks, now I need to find that moron that said "Vanilla Tier were good" when most of the class don't use any before Tier 3.

Oh and caster don't really need NR for Viscidus, only non-caster for Huhuran.

This "bis" gear not being tier doesn't mean tier sets were not good Keep in mind that some of these "bis" lists are pure fantasy. Most of the people will never be able to put all that gear together on these lists in a reasonable amount of time. Most people wore tier 0 to 2 pieces because they were much easier to get then:

A) trying to get a whole list of items that doesn't even match your armor type that requires constant grinding in 5 to 15 man dungeons and roll against many other people who need them.

B) competing against god knows how many people once a week for that 1 offset piece that dropped in a 40 man boss.

Also, most of these bis sets required you to have a complete set to outperform set bonuses and they had a very certain purpose like hitting a very specific hit/crit%, a very exact mp5/spirit etc..

[Lollis]

It's only about preprations. If you end up at Huhuran with too few ppl being able to take a hit, you'd save the day if you sorted your NR out!

I guess so.

[The-loon]

Hey, your list a great guideline and start but wanted to help make some corrections.

I've played private servers for a number of years and certain items you have related to certain lists either won't be out in the patch I'm assuming your associating the item to or there's a better item in the said slot. anyway here's my advice critique for Warlocks:

In your pre-raid gear list you have many items from DM. I know there is speculation that DM may be released with the launch of Classic. If not though, DM is a patch 1.3 dungeon, and therefore it is feasible that many guilds will clear MC well before this patch is launched.

You list the Crimson felt hat as Warlock helm BiS but that actually comes out with patch 1.4 which is after DM but before the "of wrath green" patch. So I'd definitely remove that as the helm BiS since you'll most likely be using Felcloth set in many slots unless you grind out honor for the PvP gear. 100% the 2 pc bonus of the PvP set is BiS pre-raid. The pieces ARE DIFFERENT between horde and alliance so check to see which 2pc you should be using based on the faction you plan to play.

If classic launches in patch 1.2 (with patch 1.12 talents) then the Spirit of aquamentas will not have been changed yet and not be BiS. In patch 1.2 that OH decreases the mana cost of spells by 25, it's updated in patch 1.3 to give 20 spellpower.

The +8 spellpower enchants arent available in patch 1.2, also come out with DM so be careful, may be using +8 int enchants.

Briarwood reed initially has +22 spellpower on it and is changed in patch 1.5 to 29 spellpower. Depending on how many warlocks you bring to raid and your spellpower it will be better to use the 2% crit trinket (eye of beast) to keep up improved shadowbolt on raid bosses which allows your shadowbolt to hit for 1.2 time damage. Crit is generally valued at 8-12 spellpower depending on your individual stats and raid comp.

In 'Stage 1" you list the Robe of Volatile power, that items comes out in patch 1.5 and if we are assuming that stage 1 is pre BWL gear then there should be some updates to this list too:

In this patch they release green items that can roll no stats but very high values of shadow spell dmg, frost spell dmg, etc. Simultaneously they nerf a few items, most notably for us our T2 helm, the spellpower bonus is reduced to 20, yikes. So we actually use a green helmet with +41 shadowpower, bracers/back/shoulders with +21 shadowpower, +21 wand (23 can technically roll but not count on these actually dropping as they can only be looted from 63 elite mobs), and mana igniting cord as our belt (second best is whispered secrets). Also don't give any warlocks rings of spellpower they remain BiS for mages into BWL but warlocks use other rings.

Si denote the boots and pants you have listed are BiS but are off world dragon bosses which most guilds will never kill do to the world pvp battles around them. If you dont have access to those items use skyshroud leggings (they get buffed to +33 spellpower) and use +30 shadowwrath green boots.

Finally in "stage 2" you have listed ToEP trinket, this does slightly less dmg than the trinket form hakkar's heart in Z.G assuming you're only casting SB as you should be (except shadowburn when appropriate).

Anyway hope to see you guys out there!

[pingowtf]

The whole point of a BiS list is to list what is best in slot, By omitting items simply because they're "hard to get" you've defeated the entire point of the post to begin with

I appreciate the effort you've put into this but if it has to be corrected by the people you're trying to inform in the first place then it's rather pointless

I totally get what you're saying, but again, this has been formed originally by more than one person. The weapons you're suggesting are better but, if unlucky, impossible to obtain. The only reason why there are some other items that may be harder to obtain is because they are the absolute high-end BiS - as in there is no better item for that slot throughout the entire game.
The odds are that you haven't obtain that item when the next stage hits and there is something better to get.
The list contains a few of these "error-margins". You could compare it to the latter stages where there are plenty of weapons to choose between. At that point the choice of weapon depends on the race you've chosen.
There are no dungeon BoP epics in the sheet at all, only because of the low drop rate, pugs (ninja-looting) etc..

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After loking at your list better, i found a lot of wrong with the resto shaman, feels like you have made a weird mix of a healing set and a mp5 set.

Resto shaman

Head: https://classicdb.ch/?item=18870 is Bis for stage 1. its also a better item in stage 2, but i guess you are sacrificing that one for the 3 set bonus.
For stage 3, https://classicdb.ch/?item=21615 is the best, T2.5 is pretty bad overall, its more of a dps set for all hybrid classes.

Neck: https://classicdb.ch/?item=18723 prebis, although i know that the neck was added in a later patch (1.4 or 1.5) this neck is bis until ZG release, which it then gets replaced by https://classicdb.ch/?item=19885

Shoulder: I think there are some better prebis shoulders, i cant remember where from DM i think.
for Stage 3, Wild growth spaulders, does not get replaced by T2,5. they are like twice as good.

Cloak: If hide of the wild gets replaced in BWL is debatable. its a 10healing vs 6mp5, up to preferance really.

Chest: https://classicdb.ch/?item=13346 Is BiS all the way until AQ40, and its replacement is not the T2,5 chest. but https://classicdb.ch/?item=21663

Bracers: i know you want to keep the 3set t2 bonus, the t2 bracers are probably the worst piece of the set, but it is probably the slot where you lose the least from, so alright.

Gloves: good slot for t2 3set bonus, so looks good.

Belt: looks good.

Legs: Bis for BWL is https://classicdb.ch/?item=19385, its also bis for AQ and better than t3 leggings, but you probably want to 8set bonus

Boots: best in slot boots you listed for MC, is a drop from the Silithus bosses, and depending on when blizzard release that (wasnt released until 1.8 i think) making the https://classicdb.ch/?item=13954 still bis for that tier unless ive missed some other boots.
And for tier 2 https://classicdb.ch/?item=19437 are better than the pure mp5 boots you listed. they are even better than t3.

ring: looks ok enough, it all depends on mp5 needs, you sacrifice a lot of +healing for the mp5, but might be needed.

trinket: same as rings, but gotta get that mp5 from somewhere, depends on how much mp5 you need.

weapon: https://classicdb.ch/?item=19360 from bwl

Offhand: AV exalted is bis all the way to Kel'thuzad.


WHen that is said, i am very +healing focused, and your list is very mp5 focused. both stats needed and that is really a balance each individual player needs to find out for themselves. there is no 100% correct way of gearing for a healer, cause it all depends on individual skill, and the skill of your raid members, and raid setup and more.

Hey! Thanks for the feedback, I haven't had to go through all of your suggestions yet.
The experience I've had with resto shamans is that they are excellent raid healers. Meaning promoting promoting chain heal spam - T2 and T2.5 set bonuses and boosting the mp5 as much as possible.

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Hey, your list a great guideline and start but wanted to help make some corrections.

I've played private servers for a number of years and certain items you have related to certain lists either won't be out in the patch I'm assuming your associating the item to or there's a better item in the said slot. anyway here's my advice critique for Warlocks:

In your pre-raid gear list you have many items from DM. I know there is speculation that DM may be released with the launch of Classic. If not though, DM is a patch 1.3 dungeon, and therefore it is feasible that many guilds will clear MC well before this patch is launched.

You list the Crimson felt hat as Warlock helm BiS but that actually comes out with patch 1.4 which is after DM but before the "of wrath green" patch. So I'd definitely remove that as the helm BiS since you'll most likely be using Felcloth set in many slots unless you grind out honor for the PvP gear. 100% the 2 pc bonus of the PvP set is BiS pre-raid. The pieces ARE DIFFERENT between horde and alliance so check to see which 2pc you should be using based on the faction you plan to play.

If classic launches in patch 1.2 (with patch 1.12 talents) then the Spirit of aquamentas will not have been changed yet and not be BiS. In patch 1.2 that OH decreases the mana cost of spells by 25, it's updated in patch 1.3 to give 20 spellpower.

The +8 spellpower enchants arent available in patch 1.2, also come out with DM so be careful, may be using +8 int enchants.

Briarwood reed initially has +22 spellpower on it and is changed in patch 1.5 to 29 spellpower. Depending on how many warlocks you bring to raid and your spellpower it will be better to use the 2% crit trinket (eye of beast) to keep up improved shadowbolt on raid bosses which allows your shadowbolt to hit for 1.2 time damage. Crit is generally valued at 8-12 spellpower depending on your individual stats and raid comp.

In 'Stage 1" you list the Robe of Volatile power, that items comes out in patch 1.5 and if we are assuming that stage 1 is pre BWL gear then there should be some updates to this list too:

In this patch they release green items that can roll no stats but very high values of shadow spell dmg, frost spell dmg, etc. Simultaneously they nerf a few items, most notably for us our T2 helm, the spellpower bonus is reduced to 20, yikes. So we actually use a green helmet with +41 shadowpower, bracers/back/shoulders with +21 shadowpower, +21 wand (23 can technically roll but not count on these actually dropping as they can only be looted from 63 elite mobs), and mana igniting cord as our belt (second best is whispered secrets). Also don't give any warlocks rings of spellpower they remain BiS for mages into BWL but warlocks use other rings.

Si denote the boots and pants you have listed are BiS but are off world dragon bosses which most guilds will never kill do to the world pvp battles around them. If you dont have access to those items use skyshroud leggings (they get buffed to +33 spellpower) and use +30 shadowwrath green boots.

Finally in "stage 2" you have listed ToEP trinket, this does slightly less dmg than the trinket form hakkar's heart in Z.G assuming you're only casting SB as you should be (except shadowburn when appropriate).

Anyway hope to see you guys out there!

Hey!
You have a some good points! I'll respond when I have litte more time to spare.

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I'd like to point something out. I have played in high-end guilds through out all my years of Vanilla (retail and private) and the only reason I have elemental shamans and s-priests on the sheet is because they are excellent backup healers, thus making the specc a viable specc. Cats, believe or not are outstanding when played by the right person and bear tanks are greatly underestimated. None of these are any vital key speccs, any raids can do without.

Speccs which are NOT viable:

Moonkin - while they theoretically are good backup healers, the DPS provided is just way too low compared to both elemental shaman and s-priests.
Enhancement shaman - horrible DPS and lack any stats for backup healing.
Ret paladin - Same.
Prot paladin - Not a very good choice of tank.
Arcane mages - horrible DPS.

Am I missing any speccs?

I'm sure the speccs above is possible to play in a raid, but it's like some has said throughout the thread - it's dead meat. I know some will dislike me saying this but I'd never waste loot on dead meat, which is what the general issue would be at the end of the day.

[Malacrass]

Anyone knows a classic modelviewer? With classic models?

Would love to see how the sets look like on a character.

[pingowtf]

Anyone knows a classic modelviewer? With classic models?

Would love to see how the sets look like on a character.

Ordinary Wowhead works just fine.

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This "bis" gear not being tier doesn't mean tier sets were not good Keep in mind that some of these "bis" lists are pure fantasy. Most of the people will never be able to put all that gear together on these lists in a reasonable amount of time. Most people wore tier 0 to 2 pieces because they were much easier to get then:

A) trying to get a whole list of items that doesn't even match your armor type that requires constant grinding in 5 to 15 man dungeons and roll against many other people who need them.

B) competing against god knows how many people once a week for that 1 offset piece that dropped in a 40 man boss.

Also, most of these bis sets required you to have a complete set to outperform set bonuses and they had a very certain purpose like hitting a very specific hit/crit%, a very exact mp5/spirit etc..

Wise words!

[Outofmana]

Went straight for paladin list as it's my class.......Well it took me literally 1minute to find an obvious flaw so I doubt this list be will any good for anyone. The druid shoulders are Wild Growth shoulders in T1 content, but the Paladin shoulders are a louzy 1% crit one and _not_ Wild Growth shoulders?

Secondly, most classes don't need any NR, especially healers, Huhuran has a 20man wall that needs it (in bad guilds), and viscidus will be insta removed by poison removal spammable consumables, thus also useless list.

And then finally, oh god stage 3 Paladin where do I even start, Mish'Undare over Tier3 head (1 crit over 33 healing+10stamint+9mp5, suuuure), DPS neck over C'thun neck, what a clueless list, Sapphiron dps cloak ??? if you really wanna see _the_ way to gear come naxx, it's in my signature. At this point in the game rating 1 crit over 30 healing is ridiculous, I can cast for 1 hour straight with all consumables on, what is this weird crit bias getting at?

The other classes I didn't even bother looking at seeing paladin being this stupidly done. If you are going to post BiS lists like this, they should be flawless and not a pile of randomly put together loot, if your paladin CL made this list, remove him or tell him to up his game. The only thing right for paladins was the stage 2 list....if you switch out the shoulders.

Shocking, really.

[chrisnumbers]

I doubt this list be will any good for anyone.

I will bet that the vast majority of players are never going to obtain even half of their "bis" beyond the first raiding stage. This guide is going to be tremendously useful to most people, especially to those who want to level more than 1 or 2 classes.

[Outofmana]

I will bet that the vast majority of players are never going to obtain even half of their "bis" beyond the first raiding stage. This guide is going to be tremendously useful to most people, especially to those who want to level more than 1 or 2 classes.

It's not called a 'list of items maybe good but not the best' , it's literally called a BIS-list for every stage. Telling paladins to not go for the majordomo shoulders but instead settle for a 1% crit naked one is the worst advice you can give any new paladin, they'll overrate crit like mad

(And I'll be the first one to admit crit is underrated by many for regen purposes alone already, and that Mish'undare has always been solid for Paladins, but come on still saying it's the item to aim for with tier3 out......who made this really?).

[Dazu]

Gizlockes shield from Mara is a good pre raid shield for paladins (and maybe shamans?) with its MP5 which, atleast I found was much more desirable beginning than +healing due to mana issues.

People asking about prot paladins/ret paladins. Ret almost never got taken because they literally brought nothing to the the raid over ret specced healing paladin doing the same buffs/debuffs etc (if even needed). Unless you were flushed with other classes of healers and needed the paladin for buffs you would be better served using the paladin as a healer in ret spec or prot specs for buffs (sanctuary etc).

Prot suffered from itemisation, you needed spell power, mp5 and still the same + def and such that warriors did to tank effectively (AKA not be crit and killed in 1 or 2 hits). Also had no real CD's for damage mitigation, and generally lower HP and relied on a proc to become uncrushable. Dilution of stats meant for pretty much every stage a paladin will have lower mitigation, lower HP and lower avoidance figures as a tank compared to a warrior. Also if you run out of mana your threat becomes non existent, and you lack any taunts to bring threat back in any fight where its needed/trash, and no fear break. Simply put, warriors were given the right tools, abilities and stat allocations to do the job. Druids had some of the same issues with gearing as a tank but overall were a little more forgiving.

[pingowtf]

Went straight for paladin list as it's my class.......Well it took me literally 1minute to find an obvious flaw so I doubt this list be will any good for anyone. The druid shoulders are Wild Growth shoulders in T1 content, but the Paladin shoulders are a louzy 1% crit one and _not_ Wild Growth shoulders?

Secondly, most classes don't need any NR, especially healers, Huhuran has a 20man wall that needs it (in bad guilds), and viscidus will be insta removed by poison removal spammable consumables, thus also useless list.

And then finally, oh god stage 3 Paladin where do I even start, Mish'Undare over Tier3 head (1 crit over 33 healing+10stamint+9mp5, suuuure), DPS neck over C'thun neck, what a clueless list, Sapphiron dps cloak ??? if you really wanna see _the_ way to gear come naxx, it's in my signature. At this point in the game rating 1 crit over 30 healing is ridiculous, I can cast for 1 hour straight with all consumables on, what is this weird crit bias getting at?

The other classes I didn't even bother looking at seeing paladin being this stupidly done. If you are going to post BiS lists like this, they should be flawless and not a pile of randomly put together loot, if your paladin CL made this list, remove him or tell him to up his game. The only thing right for paladins was the stage 2 list....if you switch out the shoulders.

Shocking, really.

Hey!

The thing is with paladins. The class was added to a sheet that was originally made by our guild, by request. A horde guild. Tbh, I have no clue about paladins since I haven't played with them for ages. The info was given to me by a random Redditer. You, however, seem to have a clue so don't hold back. Send me a complete list of what >you< find is BiS for each slot for each stage.

As for the NR... It's getting a bit tiresome to repeat myself.
If you want to be prepared for a day when you lack a person in the meat wall, be my guest - use the list. If you don't, don't bother collecting it. 20 man in the Huhuran meat wall is gravely exaggerating and there is no NR needed at all for Viscidus.

If you want to help out, please do. If not, it's fine. The list was made by one guild and is posted here for correction and to be formed be the crowd. Be a part of it or don't.

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Thansk for the clarification, that what I had in mind. I should have said "caster don't really need NR, even for Viscidus." I did AQ40 with two guilds on a certain server before the announcement of Classic, the bad one asked for NR for Viscidus, the try hard one didn't bother and we downed it easy without.



But it a burst dps fight in the last %. If you are in NR gear and do a fraction of the dps you could do in full gear, it might be your fault that everyone is dead...

Ye, I know. Preferably the melee and hunters are the ones in the meat wall, but if the day comes and one of the regulars stops playing anyone with NR-gear can step up for a smooth clear that week. Happened to me a few times and I've always played mage in vanilla.

[Malacrass]

Ordinary Wowhead works just fine.

The Wowhead dressing room only has the new models though. This is about classic!

Edit: Nvm, you can switch to old models but not to old animations.

[pingowtf]

@Roxyfoxy
OK, I've looked through all the suggestions you have and I'm sticking with what is on the list. It's like you said, it depends on what kind of healing you aim on to be - up the crit, up the raw healing etc. Generally my guild and I (along with a lot of other players) find that shamans are priceless raid healers and with that fact in mind it's all about boosting the chain heal, with that being 3/8 T2 and 5/5 T2.5, along with loads of mp5.
If someone were to aim for MT healing then this list is not for that guy.

Despite what the vanilla DB says, the boots that are in the stage 1 (green BoE) actually is a world drop from launch. At least they were on the most recent mega server.

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The Wowhead dressing room only has the new models though. This is about classic!

Ye, sorry. My bad. Not sure about the character models, but the items look the same.

[Roxyfoxy]

@Roxyfoxy
OK, I've looked through all the suggestions you have and I'm sticking with what is on the list. It's like you said, it depends on what kind of healing you aim on to be - up the crit, up the raw healing etc. Generally my guild and I (along with a lot of other players) find that shamans are priceless raid healers and with that fact in mind it's all about boosting the chain heal, with that being 3/8 T2 and 5/5 T2.5, along with loads of mp5.
If someone were to aim for MT healing then this list is not for that guy.

Despite what the vanilla DB says, the boots that are in the stage 1 (green BoE) actually is a world drop from launch. At least they were on the most recent mega server.

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Ye, sorry. My bad. Not sure about the character models, but the items look the same.

So you are going to use shit items, fine.

the set bonus is ok, but that massive cost in stats, yea im not gonna fall for that one, sorry. by using t2.5, you are loosing both mp5 and a whole ton of +healing. for a small gain in cast speed on chain heal. good luck with that. (t2,5 has 143+healing and 11 mp5, my item suggestion for those slots contain 335+ healing and 18mp5)

If you are overgearing a fight thats cool, you cast chain heal faster so you can be top on the meter. but you will be hurting your raid on the fights where it matters.