Flying compromise

[Softbottom]

I dont understand, why and how flying should save the game for you? Like "I dont fly = game is bad/broken" etc etc. I try to understand, but cant haha
Personally I dont think its a big problem I feel ok by using ground mounts and whistle to a nearby flymaster. Whistle even is more OP than flying...

It's hard when you have an iconic ability available to you for a decade then have it stripped away from you because the dev team thinks it's best for the game. Remember what happened in WoD when no flight was announced? The amount of sub loss was insane - Of course not all of the sub loss was from flying but I bet a good chunk of it was.

Having things taken away from you doesn't feel good. Jumping through hoops to regain an ability you already had for a decade doesn't feel good. I would be fine if they awarded flight after pathfinder 1; that makes sense. But timegating it for MAU sakes is gross. If you have pathfinder 1 that basically is saying you have explored the content the world has to offer. There is no real reason to keep it timegated other than to keep people logged in for longer.

I am currently unsubbed because the game is not fun without flying. I probably will never resub and I won't purchase the next expansion until pathfinder is fixed or removed. I have played since original Beta of WoW and the first time I ever unsubbed is when WoD no flying was announced. I have unsubbed multiple times since and it has all been during the timeframes where I can't fly. Flying is more important to players than people think. It's a huge part of the game.

[rrayy]

Really? Whole xpack theme - pointless war and hate between factions, that happens not only in game, but also at forums, where all this Sylvanas vs Saurfang wars happen. Instead of having just small parts of "forced PVP" content back in Legion, like Dal Sewers, now we have to go to 3 other faction locations, full of PVP-flagged mobs. We have Expidicions and Warfronts, that are literally "PVP with bots" and actually used for AI testing for future BGs with bots for players. Blizzard still think, that players hate PVP because they're scared to play against real humans. That's why they implement bots. But real reason - PVP is unfair and toxic. So if players wouldn't hate other players in PVP - they would hate developers instead. And in 8.1.5 we will have revamped ICC, WSG and Arathi. As I already said, we will have Arathi with bots in a future. And also. All that class mechanic pruning is also done for PVP. Because deep class mechanics, you can dig into - is purely PVE thing. And PVPers don't care about them - they just care about nuking their enemies via pressing 2-3 buttons.

Agagin, none of that makes it a PvP based expansion. Everything they created in this expansion was PvE based. And, no it is not a pointless faction war as that is THE VERY CORE OF THE GAME. The factions have been at war since it began. There has ALWAYS been faction hate. You are spewing nonsense.

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It's hard when you have an iconic ability available to you for a decade then have it stripped away from you because the dev team thinks it's best for the game. Remember what happened in WoD when no flight was announced? The amount of sub loss was insane - Of course not all of the sub loss was from flying but I bet a good chunk of it was.

Having things taken away from you doesn't feel good. Jumping through hoops to regain an ability you already had for a decade doesn't feel good. I would be fine if they awarded flight after pathfinder 1; that makes sense. But timegating it for MAU sakes is gross. If you have pathfinder 1 that basically is saying you have explored the content the world has to offer. There is no real reason to keep it timegated other than to keep people logged in for longer.

I am currently unsubbed because the game is not fun without flying. I probably will never resub and I won't purchase the next expansion until pathfinder is fixed or removed. I have played since original Beta of WoW and the first time I ever unsubbed is when WoD no flying was announced. I have unsubbed multiple times since and it has all been during the timeframes where I can't fly. Flying is more important to players than people think. It's a huge part of the game.

Flying is not an iconic ability nor is it a huge part of the game.

Also, it was never taken away from you. You have the ability to fly EVERYWHERE you unlocked it. At no pointy has flying ever been taken away from you. You aren't regaining an ability because you never unlocked flying in the new continents to begin with. And by the way, with the execption of Cta, you were NEVER able to fly the moment you logged on in a new expansion,. so you ALWAYS had to jump throw hoops to unlock flying. So, stop with the "they took flying way from me" nonsense. It is completely false.

[Softbottom]

Agagin, none of that makes it a PvP based expansion. Everything they created in this expansion was PvE based. And, no it is not a pointless faction war as that is THE VERY CORE OF THE GAME. The factions have been at war since it began. There has ALWAYS been faction hate. You are spewing nonsense.

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Flying is not an iconic ability nor is it a huge part of the game.

Also, it was never taken away from you. You have the ability to fly EVERYWHERE you unlocked it. At no pointy has flying ever been taken away from you. You aren't regaining an ability because you never unlocked flying in the new continents to begin with. And by the way, with the execption of Cta, you were NEVER able to fly the moment you logged on in a new expansion,. so you ALWAYS had to jump throw hoops to unlock flying. So, stop with the "they took flying way from me" nonsense. It is completely false.

In your opinion.

[Schizoide]

In your opinion.

Exactly. It's fine to say "I don't care about flying". That's totally valid. It isn't fine to make a grand sweeping statement like that.

[cozzri]

Im still waiting for Pathfinder: PvP.

I play the game for pvp, I should be able to unlock flying in my preferred style of play and not be forced to do all these quests and reputation grinds. And before you say "you don't need flying for bgs and arena" yes, but that's not the point, I enjoy flying and shouldn't be required to focus on the aspect of the game I enjoy the least to unlock it, how tedious. Paying gold to unlock flying at max level was fine.

[Schizoide]

The devs' reasoning behind Pathfinder is they don't want you to fly until you experienced all the open-world content, which is all PvE.

[cozzri]

The devs' reasoning behind Pathfinder is they don't want you to fly until you experienced all the open-world content, which is all PvE.

I'm pretty sure I got to experience all of the open-world content perfectly fine in BC, Wotlk, Cata, and MoP; purchasing cold-weather flying, etc.. Didn't prevent me from experiencing content.

[Dhrizzle]

What a shitpost. It's all your words. Not his.

Maybe I should have explained that SirCowdog bingo works for the whole thread, not just one post.

We do have an answer. It's just not one the fanbois and apologists and sheep are willing to accept: Money.

Blizzard was too lazy to implement terrain or objectives that mattered to a flying player.

Sadly, we'll never know as long as Hazzicostas is at the helm.

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That's why it's so important to be video-blogger or streamer. Nobody hears you here and there is no pro-flyers among video-bloggers. I mean, if I would be video-blogger, I would record video, that would show all problems with no-flying. Because, I guess, Blizzard don't play their own game and therefore don't know, what major flaws their current ground design has. It's just TERRIBLE, when I try to play on a ground only on my Mage, and mobs, I've just killed, start to immediately respawn right behind me and overrun my character. I.e. it's actually IMPOSSIBLE to clear my way towards quest objectives, as mobs attack all the time and I just CAN'T move forward at all and get out of combat (especially when there other players, who spread this bugged combat around). Reason? Claustrophobic design. Too small locations to compensate no flying, too few mobs, too high density of them. Also overcomplicated terrain. All that things make game extremely uncomfortable to play. Game is felt like it's BROKEN. I just can't bear it for more, than a month, sorry.

So, it's some sort of dead loop. Blizzard remove flying to force exact kind of unbearable gameplay, that flying is needed to get rid of. And due to some reason they think, that WE SHOULD LIKE IT. Really? I'm not masochist. I don't like to suffer, you know.

Are you playing Vanilla or something because the game hasn't been remotely that tough since WotLK launched?

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They should get rid of portals as well then.

Portals only work by moving you to one specific place, it's less of a problem to have certain points work as a start-point, WoW has always had points like this in the form of flightpaths and innkeepers (hearthstones.) Some might argue that having these in place detracts from the sense of being in the world (the "RP" elements) especially if they are overused or badly implemented, but it is a different issue to Blizz creating content to be tackled a certain way and players having tools to completely ignore that.

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How can I answer something about system, that doesn't even exist? Currently there is no places in a world, where you can be at the edge of flying and no-flying zone. All such zones have loading screen between them. And that's exactly because Blizzard claim, that there are some technical problems, that prevent them from implementing this solution. And we just claim, that it's possible, if they would want to actually do it, cuz there are such quests, where you use parachute, when you're dismounted from some flying mount.

Wintergrasp used to do exactly that if you flew into it whilst a battle was in progress, there are also some areas (I think around the Klaxxi area) in Pandaria that will dismount you. Blizz never said there were technical reasons for not implementing that system, they said they didn't like it and don't want it.

[Vantheus]

Here's a proposed compromise on the flying issue that could potentially satisfy both the community and Ion Hascostus:

Pathfinder pt.1 is available as soon as the expansion launches and unlocks flying, but at 100% speed.
Pathfinder pt.2 comes in x.1.0 and boosts flying speed to 200%.
Pathfinder pt.3 comes in x.2.0 and boosts flying speed to 310%.

This way people can stay immersed in the world while not having to fight every minor bump on the road.

Or they could keep doing exactly what has made them the most successful MMO in the history of video games? people who don't wanna fly can walk people, who want to fly can fly I wish it was available at the beginning of the expansion but it's not so I wait and then enjoy it when it's out. There's nothing wrong with it how it is

[Dhrizzle]

I'm pretty sure I got to experience all of the open-world content perfectly fine in BC, Wotlk, Cata, and MoP; purchasing cold-weather flying, etc.. Didn't prevent me from experiencing content.

WoD, Legion and BfA have all tried to introduce some sort of endgame progression into the open world (WoD failed to capitalise on it but the intent was there,) Technically MoP did too by gating badge gear behind rep grinds but that was not popular at all, however the no-flying islands were very successful which is probably where they got the idea for no-flying in the first place.

[chrisnumbers]

The easy fix for me is to wait for Classic.

[cozzri]

WoD, Legion and BfA have all tried to introduce some sort of endgame progression into the open world (WoD failed to capitalise on it but the intent was there,) Technically MoP did too by gating badge gear behind rep grinds but that was not popular at all, however the no-flying islands were very successful which is probably where they got the idea for no-flying in the first place.

Timeless Isle was fun; there were tons of things to do in a small area with progression and rewards to persue; Timeless Isle worked because of its size; taking the same amount of content and spreading it across the whole continent... not good.

I haven't played this game seriously since WoD when the pathfinder nonsense started. I played legion a little, until I got to the point I had to grind world quests and nightborn rep for flying; straight up quit when i got to that point, I find the whole procress extremely tedious.

I'd be open for unlocking flying on the cash shop along side level boost... because why not.

[rrayy]

In your opinion.

It's not an opinion. Flying was never taken away from you. You cannot have somethign taken away if you never had it to begin with. Nobody has ever unlocked flying in BFA before so you cannot have it taken away. Everywhere you have unlocked flying you can still fly. When they chnage it so you can no longer fly, in say Northrend, then you can complain about flying being taken away. Until then it is BS.

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How can I answer something about system, that doesn't even exist? Currently there is no places in a world, where you can be at the edge of flying and no-flying zone. All such zones have loading screen between them. And that's exactly because Blizzard claim, that there are some technical problems, that prevent them from implementing this solution. And we just claim, that it's possible, if they would want to actually do it, cuz there are such quests, where you use parachute, when you're dismounted from some flying mount.

Timeless Isle proves your entire claim wrong. Wintergrasp in Northrend when a battle is taking place also proves you wrong.

[Softbottom]

It's not an opinion. Flying was never taken away from you. You cannot have somethign taken away if you never had it to begin with. Nobody has ever unlocked flying in BFA before so you cannot have it taken away. Everywhere you have unlocked flying you can still fly. When they chnage it so you can no longer fly, in say Northrend, then you can complain about flying being taken away. Until then it is BS.

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Timeless Isle proves your entire claim wrong. Wintergrasp in Northrend when a battle is taking place also proves you wrong.

You sound like such a sour person lol. This thread is awsome.

[Schizoide]

I'm pretty sure I got to experience all of the open-world content perfectly fine in BC, Wotlk, Cata, and MoP; purchasing cold-weather flying, etc.. Didn't prevent me from experiencing content.

They want you to experience it all on the ground first.

Not saying I agree, that's just what the devs intend. That is the essence of Pathfinder.

[Maquegyver]

Go play a flight sim if you want to fly.

[WowIsDead64]

Are you playing Vanilla or something because the game hasn't been remotely that tough since WotLK launched?

No. Legion had such problem. BFA is a little bit better, at least not as bad, as Highmountain and Stormheim, but still has ground design problems in some areas, like Drusvar and Voldun. Only Zuldazar is more or less ground friendly, except some quests. They aren't so bad by themselves, i.e. Blizzard have learned some lessons here, and may be I would even buy BFA, if it wouldn't have such aggressive PVP-biased theme. But forced PVP crap makes thing 2x worse, so no, not going to happen without flying enabled.

Wintergrasp used to do exactly that if you flew into it whilst a battle was in progress, there are also some areas (I think around the Klaxxi area) in Pandaria that will dismount you. Blizz never said there were technical reasons for not implementing that system, they said they didn't like it and don't want it.

Timeless Isle proves your entire claim wrong. Wintergrasp in Northrend when a battle is taking place also proves you wrong.

Eh, sorry. WotLK was so long ago, that I've forgotten about it. And TI is so claustrophobic (Whole sever farming same 10 frogs? Really?), that I just ignored it. Then there is no problem. Dismounting system is already in game, so we are able to implement per-zone Pathfinder achievement.

P.S. And I'm not Legion's child, as you might think. I actually have been playing since late BC.

[darklogrus]

arbitrary time sink. when you spend more time travelling and less time doing useful shit, you'll spend more time in game to do what you could normally do in a fraction of the time.

All well an good early on but there has to be a breaking point where the ease of traveling far out ways the traveling time sink. I would say before the first patch the player base has lapped the usefulness of the WQ on multiple toons that the majority of the WQ go untouched. Question becomes would flying cause a spike in players actually engaging in more WQ across multiple toons rather then the nit picking Im sure a lot are doin now..

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How about we leave it as it is?

Won't hurt you getting to enjoy the actual environment and having to ride around a bit.

You'd have a valid case if Blizzard actually made an attempt at content in the open world instead of rehashed leveling/rare quests.

[Flame6]

I wish flying was never in the game. Then we wouldn't have a million threads asking for it.

[Newname1234567890]

Simple have it available as you hit max. Turn it off in war mode. Don't want it don't use it. Problem solved