Why didn't Baine challenge Sylvanas to mak'gora?

[Syegfryed]

It's common sense, if you honestly think she's trying to kill her own people, then you're the actual clueless person.

you mean just like she start a freaking war for her own personal motives and not for the horde? after a world ending threat? or you mean when she burned down the thing who would assure our victory?

Or maybe you are talking about how she kill horde soldiers plaguebombing then then turning to mindless skeletons? or killing forsakens just because they may or may not show disloyalty in the future?

But sure, for the horde LUL

Probably one of those idiots that defends Genn for attacking the Horde with ZERO justification in the middle of the 3rd Invasion of the Burning Legion.

vengeance is not ZERO justification, but sure start a war after the 3rd invasion of the burning legion sure is way better

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Isn't that like Orcish thing?

no, its a horde thing

[Zyky]

you mean just like she start a freaking war for her own personal motives and not for the horde? after a world ending threat? or you mean when she burned down the thing who would assure our victory?

You mean a war that was accepted by just about every racial leader prior to the march on Teldrassil? Bottom line really is, she had the approval of every leader, except Baine who was thrown down into dealing with Magni in Silithus. Even Saurfang agreed to march on it and occupy the tree. The intent was NEVER to burn it down and you have zero proof otherwise, she was forced into burning it because Saurfang let Malfurion run away and had no leverage to keep the inhabitants in check once they occupied it.

Or maybe you are talking about how she kill horde soldiers plaguebombing then then turning to mindless skeletons? or killing forsakens just because they may or may not show disloyalty in the future?

Again there was zero actual proof of her killing Horde soldiers, as we've seen many times(particularly now in Dazar'Alor with Rastakhan) both factions are getting very different stories behind events happening. IE as Horde the flashback has the Alliance demanding that Rastakhan hands over his daughter as prisoner and as Alliance there is no such mention. So Anduin saying "it's killing her own troops" isn't exactly evidence of anything.

And yes, the signs of every good leader in history, is to take care of problems before they happen. If that means killing Forsaken who are turning their backs on their Queen and faction, if that means taking care of a racial leader conspiring against the Horde, if that means having to sacrifice troops for the goal of keeping more people safe, yes you need to take care of the problem before it becomes something you can't handle.

vengeance is not ZERO justification, but sure start a war after the 3rd invasion of the burning legion sure is way better

Vengeance when explicitly told not to cause drama from the Leader of the Alliance is not justification, it's actually insubordination and a lack of justification. The fact he couldn't put it behind him, like every member of the Horde put behind the heinous acts of the Alliance, to work with the other faction to ensure there was still a world afterward proves what a piece of shit he actually is.

[Syegfryed]

You mean a war that was accepted by just about every racial leader prior to the march on Teldrassil?

Your excuse is terrible writing? just because everyone accepted (cause she is warchief and everyone must accept like or not) don't mean she is altruist and its doing for the horde good

The intent was NEVER to burn it down and you have zero proof otherwise, she was forced into burning it because Saurfang let Malfurion run away and had no leverage to keep the inhabitants in check once they occupied it.

We are talking about the intent of the war, of why she started, and no she was not forced, she didn't have to do that, she did because she want to, and turns out to bite her in the ass, cause it would better to occupy it

Again there was zero actual proof of her killing Horde soldiers

im sorry what? you mean there is zero proof of the cinematic about her ordering to plaguebomb the gates where still horde forces left? then raising then as mindless skeletons?

Or when she kill the civilians in the alliance Meeting because they may or may not betray her in the future?

So Anduin saying "it's killing her own troops" isn't exactly evidence of anything.

Thats bullshit, cause this time its only one side, not 2 to you hold your ground, there is also tons of horde skeletons runing around

And yes, the signs of every good leader in history, is to take care of problems before they happen. If that means killing Forsaken who are turning their backs on their Queen and faction,

sounds like a dictator sociopath with paranoia problems, exactly what she is.

if that means taking care of a racial leader conspiring against the Horde, if that means having to sacrifice troops for the goal of keeping more people safe, yes you need to take care of the problem before it becomes something you can't handle.

yes, killing your loyal civilians, just because your paranoia, very reasonable.

Vengeance when explicitly told not to cause drama from the Leader of the Alliance is not justification, it's actually insubordination and a lack of justification. The fact he couldn't put it behind him, like every member of the Horde put behind the heinous acts of the Alliance, to work with the other faction to ensure there was still a world afterward proves what a piece of shit he actually is.

It is a justification for him, of course will not please everyone and not be reasonable at the time, but still is a solid reason for him

[Zyky]

Your excuse is terrible writing? just because everyone accepted (cause she is warchief and everyone must accept like or not) don't mean she is altruist and its doing for the horde good



We are talking about the intent of the war, of why she started, and no she was not forced, she didn't have to do that, she did because she want to, and turns out to bite her in the ass, cause it would better to occupy it




im sorry what? you mean there is zero proof of the cinematic about her ordering to plaguebomb the gates where still horde forces left? then raising then as mindless skeletons?

Or when she kill the civilians in the alliance Meeting because they may or may not betray her in the future?



Thats bullshit, cause this time its only one side, not 2 to you hold your ground, there is also tons of horde skeletons runing around



sounds like a dictator sociopath with paranoia problems, exactly what she is.



yes, killing your loyal civilians, just because your paranoia, very reasonable.



It is a justification for him, of course will not please everyone and not be reasonable at the time, but still is a solid reason for him

I'm done wasting my time with you, you're obviously deluded.

Infracted.

[Fetus Rex]

Really, that's the sole indicator? Not the part where Mak'gora is 1 on 1 duel? With the entire reason why Thrall was mopey after WoD being that he felt the Elementals abandoned him for forcing their kind on Draenor to kill Garrosh? Thrall outright admitted he forced other sentient beings to participate in the fight on his side, making it not 1v1. Breaking pretty much the most fundamental rule of the duel.




There's no "since TFT" here. Sylvanas was already breaking armor and bones with her voice on an army scale shortly after her resurrection. To the point she made Arthas afraid, even though at that point she was literally his mind slave puppet.




Actually, when you think about it, Malfurion spent literal millennia sleeping in barrow dens, doing things only in his spirit form or whatever in the Dream. His physical body should be suffering from an ungodly case of muscle atrophy.




The issue with magic in Thrall's fight is not that it's magic per se, but that it's another weapon while Mak'gora only allows one. There's no "no magic" rule, generally speaking. So Sylvanas could just decide on her power as a weapon and faceroll Baine. She'd faceroll him with her bow anyway. She shits out (exploding) arrows at ridiculous speed while being extremely accurate and nimble (she destroyed a siege tower with her bow while backflipping, she almost killed Genn while backflipping over him as well). She'd most likely win in melee either. Sylvanas can rip animals apart with her bare hands, which requires almost inhuman strength, while being extremely durable at the same time. Baine stands no chance against her no matter from which perspective you look at it.

Most orcs were warriors with very few shamans in their culture. I doubt they would make a duel system where magic can be allowed. Otherwise all clans would be led by magic users. Lore wise powerless have no chance. All it takes is one zap, bolt and it is done.

As to her melee and archery prowess. We don't know how much of it is powered with dark magic, it can be some kind of buff.

[Muajin76]

Me thinks even if he was able to challenge her, he'd end up hamburgers for her troops. haha

[Syegfryed]

I'm done wasting my time with you, you're obviously deluded.

yeah, nice argument, with actual canon proofs

[omeomorfismo]

Yes it is.
By your logic, using the Arcane / Fel would be legit (because you're not calling upon a higher power) but any divine / spiritual magic is outlawed, which is stupid.

Try to come up with better arguments to defend your headcanon.



Then let me rephrase it: Why is Sylvanas such a special undead? Do other Dark Rangers also have those special Banshee powers?

? orc tradition never had to confront with arcane and fel. they only knewn shamanism and maaaaaaybe an early early form of shadow/blood magic.
for them magic was only commune with spirit, hence not anymore 1vs1 material for the mak'gora

[Kralljin]

for them magic was only commune with spirit, hence not anymore 1vs1 material for the mak'gora

No, the point is that Orcs aren't lawyers that create exceptions for each branch of magic, their rules are rather simplistic.
The bottom line is that either Magic counts as actual weapon and / or outside aid, or it doesn't.

There is no rule within the canon of the Warcraft games that states that magic (of any type) is forbidden, or is considered as outside aid.

That aside, Orcs were aware of the existance of Arcane as both Ogres and Draenei used it, they simply did not practice it due to unknown reasons.