[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[LeGin Tufnel]

If this happens, many lolz will be head.

Yes, quite.

It does look like that very shortly no deal is going to be ruled out (reliant on EU goodwill re. extensions). Is there any goodwill left, do you think? Maybe not from the French, but when hasn't that been the case.

In a way I feel quite relieved as it means I won't have to be on the streets rioting, I can happily leave that up to the gilets jeunes and they can be stamped on. Good, good.

[Noradin]

Oh this official British description of their "trusted trader scheme" that they want the EU to agree to to solve the Irish border issue is simply precious:
link

I especially like this part:

24. Where there is a material risk of circumvention of higher UK tariffs, the UK would make it illegal to pay the wrong tariff, and use risk and intelligence based checks across the country, rather than at the border, to check that the right tariffs are being paid. This would protect against fraud, ensure that the UK has an effective trade remedies regime and strengthen the UK’s position in trade negotiations.

It literally spells out that they want turn their country into backdoor to the EU and to opely use that fact in later trade negotiations.

Notice how it does not mention making it illegal to pay UK taxes instead of EU ones?
That means they can simply always charge the UK tariffs and bag it regardless of where the goods are headed, because the EU won't have jurisdiction where those tariffs are charged.

Also remember that the UK has a history of not handling tariffs correctly for goods headed into the EU.
Now they want an international treaty to grant them the right to contiune doing so.

[Acidbaron]

You've been doing that for the best part of a year, it gets really fucking tiresome to listen to. Germany is at least as responsible for this mess as the Brexiteers are.

Each time this pops up I wonder when will you people become adult enough to take responsibility for your own actions.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Caller on LBC saying the government couldn't count on the military to suppress rioters

ha ha ha

moar tears please

- - - Updated - - -

Another caller:

any MP who wasn't prepared to get behind the result of referendum should have stepped down in 2016

c'mon moar crying please

[Slant]

Yes, quite.

It does look like that very shortly no deal is going to be ruled out (reliant on EU goodwill re. extensions). Is there any goodwill left, do you think? Maybe not from the French, but when hasn't that been the case.

In a way I feel quite relieved as it means I won't have to be on the streets rioting, I can happily leave that up to the gilets jeunes and they can be stamped on. Good, good.

Awww, we were all rooting for you. So no senseless destruction of property? Well, fuck. Dribbles will be devastated, he was so looking forward to the civil war, the deaths on the streets and the starving children.

The EU isn't emotionally invested. You'll always get as much goodwill as the dry legal framework allows. Brexiteers can't fathom it, but the past 2 years? That's the EU playing really fucking nice.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh this official British description of their "trusted trader scheme" that they want the EU to agree to to solve the Irish border issue is simply precious:
link

I especially like this part:

24. Where there is a material risk of circumvention of higher UK tariffs, the UK would make it illegal to pay the wrong tariff, and use risk and intelligence based checks across the country, rather than at the border, to check that the right tariffs are being paid. This would protect against fraud, ensure that the UK has an effective trade remedies regime and strengthen the UK’s position in trade negotiations.

It literally spells out that they want turn their country into backdoor to the EU and to opely use that fact in later trade negotiations.

Notice how it does not mention making it illegal to pay UK taxes instead of EU ones?
That means they can simply always charge the UK tariffs and bag it regardless of where the goods are headed, because the EU won't have jurisdiction where those tariffs are charged.

Also remember that the UK has a history of not handling tariffs correctly for goods headed into the EU.
Now they want an international treaty to grant them the right to contiune doing so.

Not sure I get what they intend to do. But it doesn't really matter. The EU can't trust the UK. Hence a hard border would be prudent. It's as simple as that. The UK are unreliable and borderline criminal. In a hard Brexit, anything but a hard border would not be understood by the population on the continent. The EU needs to protect our outer border. It's as simple as that. Yes, protect it from the UK as well, in the case of a hard Brexit.

No, I don't give a flying fuck what kind of assurances May intends to give. I would not have British incompetence ensure my border integrity.

[Vermented]

It does look like that very shortly no deal is going to be ruled out (reliant on EU goodwill re. extensions). Is there any goodwill left, do you think? Maybe not from the French, but when hasn't that been the case.

The Brexiteers didn't tell you but it was clear from the beginning the UK has 3 options;

1: Leave without any status.
2: Become a member of the customs union and acquire the same status as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.
3: Stay in the EU. The ECJ ruled the UK can cancel Brexit (art 50) and stay without consent needed by the EU.

It has nothing to do with "goodwill", nor has it anything to do with "striking a good deal" or "dealmaking". Making a special deal for the UK would open up the door for other countries in and/or out of the EU to strike a similar deal, thus damaging the foundation the EU was build upon! The UK was tricked into chaos by lesser men, some of them probably supported/paid by organisations/countries/individuals with an agenda to destabilise the EU. (And yes also the Frensh want the UK to stay into the EU you stupid Brit lol)

[LeGin Tufnel]

The Brexiteers didn't tell you but it was clear from the beginning the UK has 3 options;

1: Leave without any status.
2: Become a member of the customs union and acquire the same status as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.
3: Cancel art. 50 and stay in the EU. The ECJ ruled the UK can cancel Brexit and stay without consent needed by the EU.

It has nothing to do with "goodwill", nor has it anything to do with "striking a good deal" or "dealmaking". Making a special deal for the UK would open up the door for other countries in and/or out of the EU to strike similar deal, this damaging the foundation the EU was build upon! The UK was tricked into chaos by lesser men, some of them probably supported/paid by organisations/countries/individuals with an agenda to destabilise the EU. (And yes also the Frensh want the UK to stay into the EU you stupid Brit lol)

Don't take my posts so seriously... I know all of this

It was more in relation to whether or not Slant was nation-bashing or not.... I don't think he is. I can understand, completely the level of frustration here. You know, you're not actually the one living in the country eating itself.

What I was getting at was: there are genuine reasons to not offer the UK an extension beyond a couple of months. If an extension takes the form of e.g., a couple of years, yes, that would require a certain amount of "goodwill" and faith that UK politicians are indeed capable of concluding this process.

[Vermented]

Don't take my posts so seriously... I know all of this

It was more in relation to whether or not Slant was nation-bashing or not.... I don't think he is. I can understand, completely the level of frustration here. You know, you're not actually the one living in the country eating itself.

What I was getting at was: there are genuine reasons to not offer the UK an extension beyond a couple of months. If an extension takes the form of e.g., a couple of years, yes, that would require a certain amount of "goodwill" and faith that UK politicians are indeed capable of concluding this process.

I'll try to remember that.

I'm personaly not a fan of giving the UK more time behond 29-3-'19 for anything else than a new Brexit referendum. I realise it is utter chaos in the UK but you must not forget there is also some unrest in the rest of the EU, specialy in countries which trade heavily with the UK. The markets and the people need clearity pretty quick. The UK will have to chose between the 3 options and get it over with.

[Noradin]

Ask any one who campaigned from door to door. Germany didn't help matters by encouraging millions of immigrants to come without making any provision for their transportation, so we had multiple scenes of masses of immigrants holed up at borders all across Europe for months. That emboldened the far right across Europe and here was no different.
Additionally Germany alienated the far left with its imposition of austerity on Greece.

There's a hardcore of racists and national sovereignity Tories in this country that comprise about 30%, as in most nations that voted for Brexit, Germany's insistence on austerity and incredibly poorly managed immigration was responsible for the rest.

So how is Germany responsible for those campaining from door to door lying their asses off?

[Slant]

Ask any one who campaigned from door to door. Germany didn't help matters by encouraging millions of immigrants to come without making any provision for their transportation, so we had multiple scenes of masses of immigrants holed up at borders all across Europe for months. That emboldened the far right across Europe and here was no different.
Additionally Germany alienated the far left with its imposition of austerity on Greece.

There's a hardcore of racists and national sovereignity Tories in this country that comprise about 30%, as in most nations that voted for Brexit, Germany's insistence on austerity and incredibly poorly managed immigration was responsible for the rest.

Greece was being overrun by refugees while trying to avoid crashing out of the Eurozone. Germany never told refugees to "come to Europe". Germany told Greece to send those refugees along to Germany, because Greece couldn't handle them any longer. That's called solidarity and not being a selfish prick that only cares about the whopping 10k refugees camping out at Calais to stay outside.

See, the difference Between Germany and the UK is... Germany realised that they're already in the EU borders, so it's an EU wide problem and led by example in reducing the impact on one particular country. The UK, on the other hand, never has seen the EU as a whole and always pushed its nationalist agenda, they were and are only interested in themselves and fuck everyone else. Please, tell me again how this is Germany's fault... you're literally saying Germany should've let Greece go broke, crash out of the Eurozone AND be overrun by immigrants to a point where riots began happening on Greek islands.

How is Germany to blame for this again? Did we force Greek politicians to be corrupt fucks? Did we start a war in Iraq and create Al Quaida only to then start a war in Syria to create the refugee wave?

Or.. are you really just whinging about UK austerity, which is only on the UK Government, being sovereign as they are?

[Vermented]

You can blame Farage and Boris all you like but I assure you the Brexiteers find them equally ridiculous and they had minimal, probably negative impact on the campaign.

What swung it for Leave was having the head of Goldman Sachs on TV only days before the vote for Remain. And David Cameron, a man who had sex with a dead pig, just in general.

The Brits where known for their "hesitance" against the EU for decades... The lesser men just took advantage of that. Now the UK has to make a choise realy fast and stfu about it for the rest of it's existance. Everybody is getting sick of it.

[LeGin Tufnel]

@Dizzeeyooo

https://twitter.com/tom_watson/statu...97815547437057

Apparently, Tom Watson is not happy with said "Labour spokesman"

[dribbles]

The UK has already made its choice. Despite the shenanigans in westminster it still remains, as a recent sky news poll shows, thus...



Any anti democratic MP, like remainer Amber Rudd for example, with her 300 odd slim constituency majority at the last election, who goes against the will of the people will be soon looking for a new job.

You have to forgive our eurochums here for their obvious frustration with the UK. They and the EU are just bit part players in brexit, they don't like it when they have lost control. It can't be very nice being so insignificant in a process that probably will lead to EU break up and disintegration.

[DarkAmbient]

I realise it is utter chaos in the UK

In what way is it utter chaos here?

[LeGin Tufnel]

The UK has already made its choice. Despite the shenanigans in westminster it still remains, as a recent sky news poll shows, thus...

No date. No context.

Source: audience poll.

he he he

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...ould-you-vote/

UK still completely divided.

No deal will be ruled out today... leaves the ERG voting for May's deal.

May's deal passes. Everyone riots. hahaha

[DarkAmbient]

In your parliament.

Parliament is doing just fine; it's the government that's in a mess.

[dribbles]

No date. No context.

Source: audience poll.

he he he

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...ould-you-vote/

UK still completely divided.

No deal will be ruled out today... leaves the ERG voting for May's deal.

May's deal passes. Everyone riots. hahaha

The EU have agreed that? Any source at all? Methinks you hehehe too soon...

Whilst frequent snap polls show 54% still want to leave the EU without a deal, the chances of staying in are zero. Will of the people, and all that, will prevail.

The politicians, especially those in Labour Midlands and Northern marginals, have to face the wrath of the the electorate and deselection at some point if they don't deliver.

[LeGin Tufnel]

The EU have agreed that? Any source at all? Methinks you hehehe too soon...

Whilst frequent snap polls show 54% still want to leave the EU without a deal, the chances of staying in are zero. Will of the people, and all that, will prevail.

The politicians, especially those in Labour Midlands and Northern marginals, have to face the wrath of the the electorate and deselection at some point if they don't deliver.

Nah, it won't get to the stage of asking the EU for an extension. The ERG will bottle it and we're going to end up with May's Deal... I'll wager money on it. Vassel state. Wasn't it Pann who said it'd be this scenario all along?

[dribbles]

Nah, it won't get to the stage of asking the EU for an extension. The ERG will bottle it and we're going to end up with May's Deal... I'll wager money on it. Vassel state. Wasn't it Pann who said it'd be this scenario all along?

Someone has to ask for an extension though, the default is still to leave deal or no deal. An extension is not the default.

And why would the EU agree to that extension?, when polls clearly show that should another referendum be tabled the rerun losers vote may well return the same results. If not by a bigger margin to leave. And even if your scenario does happen, that doesn't settle the EU question definitively. Only No Deal settles that for a generation. Do the EU want the UK half in as a disgruntled vassal state shit stirring, vetoing and causing trouble all the time?

I doubt that, but should it happen there will be 17.4 million anti EU UK voters just waiting to jump at the chance of holding to account those UK politicians, in marginal seats, who enabled it.

[Slant]

Someone has to ask for an extension though, the default is still to leave deal or no deal. An extension is not the default.

And why would the EU agree to that extension?, when polls clearly show that should another referendum be tabled the rerun losers vote may well return the same results. If not by a bigger margin to leave. And even if your scenario does happen, that doesn't settle the EU question definitively. Only No Deal settles that for a generation. Do the EU want the UK half in as a disgruntled vassal state shit stirring, vetoing and causing trouble all the time?

I doubt that, but should it happen there will be 17.4 million anti EU UK voters just waiting to jump at the chance of holding to account those UK politicians, in marginal seats, who enabled it.

A deal UK would have no say, no veto, no significance in decision making. You'd be reduced to receiving instructions. You're overrating your importance once more.