What happened to Blizzards stance of end LFR bosses being wipeable?

[ohwell]

Yeah people said LFR was shit from day 1.
LFR was a convenient lie so the devs could just continue doing raids just like they always planned to, but the meme that lfr is anything but a handout for low hanging fruit has to die.

LFR is like giving your little sibling a disconnected controller so they could pretend that they are playing with you.

I'm assuming the lie you're talking about is that "casuals" pay for the game which is more and more proving false. Sure in Vanilla that might have been true, but that's because the majority didn't even do any raids at all because leveling and gearing were time consuming.

Now that there's sponsors and things like that as well as esports stuff, the average mythic raider or top end pvper pulls in more revenue for Blizzard than a massive number of "casuals." Whole guilds doing race/faction swap? Yeah let's see casual guilds doing that. Whole guilds where each member has 2-5 accounts? Not "casual" guilds.

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There is literally 3 other difficulties. So again, why do you care that easy mode is easy?

It shouldn't be that easy. As usual it's a spit in the face of players who actually work for things. The same way that you can just wait 2 expansions and blow through blindfolded and get the same rewards. We need to stop rewarding incompetence. It's not a desirable trait. If their life is that bad that they need that ego boost of killing a boss in LFR difficulty the way it is, they need to seek professional help.

[Willhouse]

I love LFR just to see content,i'm not one of those idiots that wipes 200 times on boss for a chance of piece of loot thats gonna be shit in couple of months...thats just stupid.I play to enjoy the game not to rape it./micdrop

[Varolyn]

1. It's LFR. The "hard" lfr bosses were only hard because 1. They had way too much hp relative to how much dps people were doing and 2. Maybe like 5 players total were doing even the most basic mechanics. I wiped once on lfr blockade and lfr jaina because of countless players fucking up even the most basic parts of the fights. Luckily for both, my group had a few over geared players (myself included) to carry all the dead weight. That is how LFR always has been.

[Rotted]

Im going to have to agree with op,

KJ was a nightmare in LFR, I did it once and never returned.

Zul and G'huun though, more so Zul. What a travesty. I came back to the game last month and hit 120 on a new alt two weeks ago / 3 resets. It took 6 attempts to get zul down and 5 attempts for G'huun.

Figured it was a once off, went back in two resets ago same result. When in last reset, I gave up on the group an hour after stating zul.

I'm all for LFR being wipeable, otherwise the afk fests will be retarded, but things need to be toned down or reduced.

[Oneirophobia]

It shouldn't be that easy. As usual it's a spit in the face of players who actually work for things. The same way that you can just wait 2 expansions and blow through blindfolded and get the same rewards. We need to stop rewarding incompetence. It's not a desirable trait. If their life is that bad that they need that ego boost of killing a boss in LFR difficulty the way it is, they need to seek professional help.

If your life is so bad that you consider people casually completing the EASIEST and most laughed-at difficulty in the game a "spit in the face", as well as people doing ancient content for cosmetics then, very clearly, you're the one with the ego problem. How little self awareness can you have? Quite frankly, your attitude is everything wrong with the gaming community. None of this shit is real, it's a video game. When the servers finally shut down, all of these pixels you "actually worked* for" are going to disappear and nobody will have anything to show for it. The only thing that matters and the only thing that will last is the memories you have of the enjoyment.


*: Worked, as in, not worked for at all but played a video game.

[Eleccybubb]

Hyperbole to the max, as the first lfr jania I was in wiped to people not being on the right side of the room when the wall phase began, causing everyone to get blocked.

Glad you had a good experience though!

That's not a good experience in my book though. Even a story mode should at least throw something at you.

Even the most easiest of difficulties on SP games don't let you just breeze through it.

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Anyone who thinks LFR should be harder is not the target audience of it. You have 3 other difficulties to have fun and be challenged. Just do as I do and ignore LFR completely, I wouldn't even go there with my 50th Alt.

I don't think it should be harder. But even for a story mode it shouldn't just be loot pinatas. Making the mechanics more noticable doesn't necessarily mean making it harder.

Again 24 mans in FF14. Anyone can do them and yet you can still wipe to mechanics. Easy content but with noticeable mechanics.

Literally the only dangerous mechanic I noticed on Jaina LFR were the barrels.

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If your life is so bad that you consider people casually completing the EASIEST and most laughed-at difficulty in the game a "spit in the face", as well as people doing ancient content for cosmetics then, very clearly, you're the one with the ego problem. How little self awareness can you have? Quite frankly, your attitude is everything wrong with the gaming community. None of this shit is real, it's a video game. When the servers finally shut down, all of these pixels you "actually worked* for" are going to disappear and nobody will have anything to show for it. The only thing that matters and the only thing that will last is the memories you have of the enjoyment.


*: Worked, as in, not worked for at all but played a video game.

Yeah honestly I don't care what loot drops from LFR. Never have done. I don't even care if the GMOD mount drops. I mean Mythic has plenty of rewards. I won't lie it feels weird seeing an LFR piece Titanforge upto a Mythic ilvl piece or Heroic one though but still end of the day it's just pixels.

However I'm just of the opinion that even story should present something. Not just sit there without any danger. A difficulty mode being story driven doesn't mean it has to present barely any mechanics.

[Zoldor]

Look, I'd like to say ya it is impossible to wipe on LFR bosses now, but trust me the instant you say that shit, you'll get a string of LFRs that manage to fail over and over and you'll spend longer in LFR than if you pugged a heroic.

Sometimes you eat bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

For real, I had a string of fantastic LFR luck for a bit. Now, it seems like now I can't get anything to go smoothly. Go in and get you some Jadefire....that is a blast. That gauntlet run will punish the desire to LFR right out of you.

[Eleccybubb]

Im going to have to agree with op,

KJ was a nightmare in LFR, I did it once and never returned.

Zul and G'huun though, more so Zul. What a travesty. I came back to the game last month and hit 120 on a new alt two weeks ago / 3 resets. It took 6 attempts to get zul down and 5 attempts for G'huun.

Figured it was a once off, went back in two resets ago same result. When in last reset, I gave up on the group an hour after stating zul.

I'm all for LFR being wipeable, otherwise the afk fests will be retarded, but things need to be toned down or reduced.

And again I think they found the perfect balance with it in MoP.

There were wipes. But it wasn't difficult at all.

[Jastall]

That's hardly a "stance". Sometimes the boss is a wipefest (mostly when it has a mechanic that actually matters), sometimes it's not. LFR Imperator and Blackhand were easy if memory serves, while Archimonde wiped groups left and right. Xavius, Helya and Gul'dan were jokes, Argus had a slight bit of a (LFR tier of course) DPS check going on, and KJ was the hardest of the lot thanks to one specific mechanic.

In BfA, G'huun was hell mostly because you needed to have two, preferably four, people who knew what was happening, while Jaina has had her damage stripped bare and is thus easy. So all in all I'd hardly say there's any sort of trend here.

[BigAinCA]

cuz the good player farming the mount ^^ did lfr on 3 410ilvl+ chars last Night (blizz even hotfixed it from mekka to janna so ppl dont leave and carry )

Pretty much this. I did it right at rollover and the group I was in wiped three times before getting Jaina down. All the over-geared folks left after Mek so there were not many over-geared folks at Jaina. With the mount hot fix there will be more of them at Jaina so of course it is going to be easier

[RobertMugabe]

Had a bit of my Dreadwake sub left so I figured I'd look at Jaina on LFR. Big mistake.

What happened to the KJ like difficulty that the devs said end bosses on LFR would equate to? She's easy as hell. Yes LFR is supposed to be easy I know but I remember back in Legion they said they found KJ the perfect difficulty in Tomb of Sargeras for an end LFR boss. She is literally a 70 mil HP loot pinata. At least Lei Shen LFR and Kil'Jaeden LFR actually threw something at you and had risk to it.

At least in FF14 with 24 mans you can actually wipe from messing up mechanics once or twice. Here you literally have free reign to fuck up as much as you want.

Blizzard seriously need to take a look at FF14 and it's 24 mans when designing LFR. The 24 mans in that game are still easy and doable by the average player but have mechanics that will wipe you.

I think that's a good thing. The problem with LFR is that you rarely encounter a group of people who are actually listening and who want to know why they've failed and improve on that. So most of the time you end up wiping on the same stuff, because the players just don't care.

I think the optimal raid difficulty for most people is normal. It's designed to be difficult enough that you should play a strategy and the players tend to listen and improve. It has also gotten a lot better with the new voice chat (that I do use from time to time).

LFR has to be super easy where nothing really matters (and thus it's such a boring experience all the time), but if something is suddenly important then it's just frustrating and not worth doing. LFR is one of those things that make sense on paper (=avoiding toxic raid leaders), but in reality it's never gonna work out.

[Eleccybubb]

I think that's a good thing. The problem with LFR is that you rarely encounter a group of people who are actually listening and who want to know why they've failed and improve on that. So most of the time you end up wiping on the same stuff, because the players just don't care.

I think the optimal raid difficulty for most people is normal. It's designed to be difficult enough that you should play a strategy and the players tend to listen and improve. It has also gotten a lot better with the new voice chat (that I do use from time to time)

Oh I agree the higher difficulties exist for that reason. But eh as I said even story should present something. But just my opinion.

[Zoldor]

And again I think they found the perfect balance with it in MoP.

There were wipes. But it wasn't difficult at all.

yeah Ji'Kun, Durumu, and Lei Shen say otherwise. Same thing with Twin Emperors (for a while at least). SoO wasn't too awful. But ToT was brutal LFR levels as well, easily equal or worse than G'huun.

[Jastall]

And again I think they found the perfect balance with it in MoP.

There were wipes. But it wasn't difficult at all.

Hm, Garalon, Nazgrim, and half of ToT were wipefests that only LFR Archimonde has ever been able to match. Nazgrim in particular was nerfed something like 7 times in LFR just because dummies couldn't understand the concepts of not tunneling the boss.

[Eleccybubb]

Hm, Garalon, Nazgrim, and half of ToT were wipefests that only LFR Archimonde has ever been able to match. Nazgrim in particular was nerfed something like 7 times in LFR just because dummies couldn't understand the concepts of not tunneling the boss.

To be fair most of Garalons were because they tuned him stupidly high for LFR.

Nazgrim I don't really remember wiping on that in LFR. Although if you show me the nerfs I'd like to take a look actually.

To be honest I just don't think story alone is reason enough to make LFR as easy as is. I'm not saying every single mechanic should oneshot god no. I'm saying even for a story especially when it's the siege of a huge city needs to have some danger or mechanics to it.

[Alcsaar]

Why don't you just do the following 3 increasingly difficult versions of the raid?

LFR serves a very specific purpose and it does it fine.

[Spotnick]

You really want to wipe on something that gives you 370 items?

[Sliske]

Probably Kil'jaedin happened

That said, i'm glad its not wipeable. If a boss is difficult, or at least wipeable, i want something good from it - not 370s. I'm not gonna wipe more than once in an entire LFR run for some damn 370s

[Nathasil]

.

You realise there is an actual mount-drop in this wing and it is week #1, meaning a lot of actual "players" (= people actually playing the game instead of casually moving their mouse between their two monitors while watching youtube) are doing it.

Try to play one of the older wings where no mount drops on any day of the week but wednesday and you will probably have an opportunity to wipe.

As for LFR itself...i have not done it and most likely never will during the actual expansion. I know this content is not for me. Which is fine. There is lots of content in this game that is not for me (eg. 100% Horde story, ~80% Alliance story, Allied Races, most of PvP, most of WQs, Warfronts, Island Expeditions)...but that still leaves me with actual raiding and M+....which is still better content than i could ever get of that kind in FF14. So the argument works both ways.

I'm pretty sure there is content in FF14 i would love. And i am even more sure there is content in FF14 i would find mind-crushingly awful.....would you like it if i come to the FF14 forums to complain over the stuff i don't like while ignoring all the stuff i do like? Probably not.

Hard to understand, i know.

As for more difficult LFRs in the past: Who exactly are they designed for? Players who could do NHC but just cannot be arsed to get a group? The premade finder is intended for these players. LFR is intended for players who cannot do NHC. As simple as that. And with NHC being extremely easy this exapnsion already....yeah, you cannot tune LFR much lower. You just cannot.

My main gripe with LFR is not the difficulty. My main gripe is the reward-structure of the entire expansion being so fundamentally flawed that there really is no point in doing LFR. Even on Alts. Which is also true for most of the content in the game. It just feels pointless. Not because it isn't fun (which it is not, in most cases....) but because it simply does nothing to progress your character in any way shape or form.

[Jastall]

To be fair most of Garalons were because they tuned him stupidly high for LFR.

Nazgrim I don't really remember wiping on that in LFR. Although if you show me the nerfs I'd like to take a look actually.

To be honest I just don't think story alone is reason enough to make LFR as easy as is. I'm not saying every single mechanic should oneshot god no. I'm saying even for a story especially when it's the siege of a huge city needs to have some danger or mechanics to it.

Well I was slightly exaggerating the number of times he was nerfed, it was 4 actually. Still, take a look at the bottom of this page. Months into SoO he was still getting huge nerfbats, and I remember wiping on the guy a lot.

I'm also fine with some danger being present in LFR. But one has to understand that the people who want to see the story oftentimes don't care about performing at all, and the people just there for the free gear are unlikely to have the patience for multiple wipes. Uldir LFR was fine for me.