Capitilism is rigged. Using working in retail as an example

[Ragedaug]

I'm not a Luddite but I dont think its ridiculous to suggest workers will soon be more expensive than coding and maintenance on machinery and we need to protect that area a little better.

It won't matter. They'll find other ways to make money. 30 years ago being a barista, or working on Internet security, or being a YouTube content creator didn't exist. People are making money playing games and streaming them. Not likely that will get replaced by robots.

As robots replace more labor you will see more and more people becoming professional artists and more involved in paid social positions. More and more people will get paid doing things they enjoy doing, but if you had your way, you would strip that from them and put them all back in a typing pools or factory assembly lines. "nobody's tukin mer jerb!"

[PC2]

It won't matter. They'll find other ways to make money. 30 years ago being a barista, or working on Internet security, or being a YouTube content creator didn't exist. People are making money playing games and streaming them. Not likely that will get replaced by robots.

As robots replace more labor you will see more and more people becoming professional artists and more involved in paid social positions. More and more people will get paid doing things they enjoy doing, but if you had your way, you would strip that from them and put them all back in a typing pools or factory assembly lines. "nobody's tukin mer jerb!"

Indeed there's no limit to problems and human creative work. Old industries go away, new ones tend to be less strenuos.

[fakaroonie]

It's a bad spot to be in that's for sure, and even though I did that kind of physical job and I was upset at bosses for doing nothing and earning more, + complaining at us, I began to treat them like equals, and be the best work-avoider there is.

Even now in an office job, deadline wasn't met? Oops, I will try better next time.

I just keep bulshitting and avoiding work, aand it's worked for a year so far. I also coordinate teams once in a while, because I don't give a fuck bout top management. We're all the same. And they seem to respect that from me.

In the end, positions are about luck, or what you "Capitalize" with that small amount of luck you get.

And yeah, it's an unfair world we live in. But that's been since the big bang.

[meheez]

Why? Because thats what you deserve.

Why? Because thats what you do.

Now.. i do agree that economic value isnt the same as ,,human value" and a human being as a economic cogwheel isnt the same as human being as an individual with its own uniqueness and problems.

But guess what...that can also be solved by free market capitalism.

p.s. alot of your fking hard workers are terrible people with 0 brains or terrible character traits

[8bithamster]

... this is a world where (if you live in a country which you describe) you can get where you want if you have some drive and passion for it. The people who whinge that the "lower people don't get paid enough" have 0 drive to improve themselves, to get better, and thus get better pay. It's all about instant gratification, and expecting everything to be done for them.

[d00mGuArD]

Please don't use DT as an example of success.

Family - check
Health - check
Education - Ivy league
Wealth Status - top 1% of the top 1% one of the only 540 billionaires in US
Job Status - President of the United States, the top job in the whole world
Power Status - Top 5 most powerful people on the planet

Can you really think of ANY ONE person in the whole solar system that is more successful. Honest question

[Kokolums]

I am fortunate enough to live in a country with freedoms and the ability to choose your lifestyle and career. And education too if you can afford it.

However I also live in a country with incredibly high suicide rates/depression/violence/crime

Why is that? in a land of opportunity do we still see the same rates of poverty and general social status where only a few excel and most wallow in their own pits of poverty.

I dont claim to be a expert politically or a business analyst but I have a lot of experience working in retail which is the basic model of modern capitalism.

Why is it the worker bee's, the people at the bottom do all the work, and the few at the top thats jobs consist of mostly sitting in on meetings and listening to phone calls and they never spend a 12 hour shift working on their feet on concrete tiles take over 95% of the profits and you get such large inconsistency from the top to the bottom even though you are all working towards the same goal, a successful company.

Or let alone cleaners of malls who literally shovel shift and earn less in a year than a CEO makes in a month.

It just all seems so rigged to me and it makes me depressed at the state of the world.

To build wealth requires self-discipline. The vast majority of people could have built wealth VERY easily from 1980-today by simply investing in stocks. But evil people keep telling them that capitalism is rigged and to avoid stocks. Even as recently as the end of 2018, evil people were screaming that the market was gonna crash and it was Trump's fault, and if you listen to that crap you miss out on the huge rally this year. You need the self-discipline to stick to the plan and stop listening to evil people.

[icehot]

Im not saying people with more responsibilities shouldnt be paid more. But the scales of the people at the top is too dramatic.

Its not like most managers/bosses do that much more beyond having their cell phone turned on after work hours. And any manager worth their salt has the business working smoothly enough you dont need to demand so much extra of your staff

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Fast food outlets like mcdonalds/ petrol stations/ supermarkets are already going towards self serve.

Pretty obvious where this is all heading.

Dude your views are insanely skewed and looking at the extremes of things. That's the problem with the extremes of both sides, they use small, niche examples to try and get their point of view across.

If you think AI will replace jobs, yes you are right but industries , jobs and careers evolve.

You want to complain about something? Go complain about how education isnt preparing the future work force for the potential dramatic shift in work due to technology and stop the pipe dream about profits before money, that statement boils my blood as is such a f'n generalization and nothing specific to the actual problems we face today.

[hynx]

I am fortunate enough to live in a country with freedoms and the ability to choose your lifestyle and career. And education too if you can afford it.

However I also live in a country with incredibly high suicide rates/depression/violence/crime

Why is that? in a land of opportunity do we still see the same rates of poverty and general social status where only a few excel and most wallow in their own pits of poverty.

I dont claim to be a expert politically or a business analyst but I have a lot of experience working in retail which is the basic model of modern capitalism.

Why is it the worker bee's, the people at the bottom do all the work, and the few at the top thats jobs consist of mostly sitting in on meetings and listening to phone calls and they never spend a 12 hour shift working on their feet on concrete tiles take over 95% of the profits and you get such large inconsistency from the top to the bottom even though you are all working towards the same goal, a successful company.

Or let alone cleaners of malls who literally shovel shift and earn less in a year than a CEO makes in a month.

It just all seems so rigged to me and it makes me depressed at the state of the world.

retail is far from the basic model of capitalism. at best, thats third from the bottom step, on a ladder that goes up 300 ft. and the average CEO puts in far more time than the average worker. the difference is their work follows them throughout their life, their "vacation", every where. the average ceo puts in 10-11 hrs a day monday-friday, and an extra 6-8 hrs on weekends. wtf do you work at wal-mart, or what ever shitty retail job that you seem to be stuck in? if you dont put in your time, will hundreds, if not thousands be at risk of losing their jobs due to mismanagement of the business? No? ok shut up, and close the thread.

[Santti]

Family - check
Health - check
Education - Ivy league
Wealth Status - top 1% of the top 1% one of the only 540 billionaires in US
Job Status - President of the United States, the top job in the whole world
Power Status - Top 5 most powerful people on the planet

Can you really think of ANY ONE person in the whole solar system that is more successful. Honest question

Is that sarcasm? I can't tell. Too many MAGAts in here.

[Draco-Onis]

What OP described is what capitalism is. Basically, you are giving people a choice. Work hard & succeed or be lazy and fade away.

Seems like a good system.

A CEO receives huge sums of money not because he is CEO, but because he is hyper efficient, works all the time, smart AF. (that's usually the case)

Except that is just a fantasy not reality, the CEO gets paid insane sums of money because everyone on the board are his buddies who will rubber stamp his raise. He is not accountable when the performance tanks because no one holds him responsible, if he bankrupts the company he will get a golden parachute even a bail out if he is too big to fail.

He doesn't have to be hyper efficient, work all the time or smart he just has to know the right people to golf with on weekends. That mythical CEO you describe is the exception usually a founder most are not that because they don't care as much.

[apelsinjuice]

Family - check
Health - check
Education - Ivy league
Wealth Status - top 1% of the top 1% one of the only 540 billionaires in US
Job Status - President of the United States, the top job in the whole world
Power Status - Top 5 most powerful people on the planet

Can you really think of ANY ONE person in the whole solar system that is more successful. Honest question

you are not allowed to talk good about him on this forum, its very left leaning

[Nfinitii]

I am fortunate enough to live in a country with freedoms and the ability to choose your lifestyle and career. And education too if you can afford it.

However I also live in a country with incredibly high suicide rates/depression/violence/crime

Why is that? in a land of opportunity do we still see the same rates of poverty and general social status where only a few excel and most wallow in their own pits of poverty.

I dont claim to be a expert politically or a business analyst but I have a lot of experience working in retail which is the basic model of modern capitalism.

Why is it the worker bee's, the people at the bottom do all the work, and the few at the top thats jobs consist of mostly sitting in on meetings and listening to phone calls and they never spend a 12 hour shift working on their feet on concrete tiles take over 95% of the profits and you get such large inconsistency from the top to the bottom even though you are all working towards the same goal, a successful company.

Or let alone cleaners of malls who literally shovel shift and earn less in a year than a CEO makes in a month.

It just all seems so rigged to me and it makes me depressed at the state of the world.

I’ve worked retail a lot, most of the ppl at the bottom arnt worth the 10 dollars an hour they r getting.

[PosPosPos]

I’ve worked retail a lot, most of the ppl at the bottom arnt worth the 10 dollars an hour they r getting.

Yeah, can't we just bring back legal slavery again? Those were such the good days.

Oh wait. We already have it in many developed nations today. Scratch that.

[d00mGuArD]

And you look at the man and see literally nothing impressive or even 'above average' about him. Looks, intelligence, foresight, fair, compassion. He is the poster child for the system being rigged in favor of old money with little to no requirement had on the part of DT to acquire his status and wealth. It was literally handed to him. THAT'S how the system works.

I can't imagine how you think the presidency was handed to him. You made this up. Any source?
Literally the entire "system" you claim was against him! And he made it to President against the system

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Is that sarcasm? I can't tell. Too many MAGAts in here.

I am not MAGA I am european and don't really care to make america great! I care to make France and Greece great! It's too late for Greece though, we had socialism for too long
I did not see you mentioning someone more successful. You can't think even one?

[fwothploth]

Nothing of what you said has anything to do with Capitalism. Thats basic businesses around the world. Boss always gets more because the boss needs to rebuy items to sell and expand and pay employees.

Untrue. In the more extreme forms of socialism there is generally a manager but no owner as such. The manager is paid more but not the ridiculous sums they are paid under capitalism. If the US were the Soviet Union someone like Bobby Kotick would be paid $250,000 to $500,000 rather than 15 million. More, but not that much more. Because that's a reasonable valuation of his worth to the company (we'll ignore the possibly valid argument that he brings negative worth to the company).

The problem with modern capitalist pay structures is that they bear no relation to the actual value the executive brings.

[Santti]

I can't imagine how you think the presidency was handed to him. You made this up. Any source?
Literally the entire "system" you claim was against him! And he made it to President against the system

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I am not MAGA I am european and don't really care to make america great! I care to make France and Greece great! It's too late for Greece though, we had socialism for too long
I did not see you mentioning someone more successful. You can't think even one?

I'm going to go with sarcasm, to preserve my sanity. Or T-wording.

[fwothploth]

It won't matter. They'll find other ways to make money. 30 years ago being a barista, or working on Internet security, or being a YouTube content creator didn't exist. People are making money playing games and streaming them. Not likely that will get replaced by robots.

As robots replace more labor you will see more and more people becoming professional artists and more involved in paid social positions. More and more people will get paid doing things they enjoy doing, but if you had your way, you would strip that from them and put them all back in a typing pools or factory assembly lines. "nobody's tukin mer jerb!"

Youtube takes years to get right. It is not a job for everyone. To amass a large following you need to be able to operate a camera, learn how audio programs work, script stuff, create compelling visual content, learn how audience retention metrics work....for years for no money. You can work out the approximate adsense salary of most youtubers by looking at the number of views and dividing by 1000. So one million views = one thousand dollars. So that's 4 million views per month for a $4000 salary. That's fucking tough to do.

Then you have demonetization issues, copyright strikes etc all of which can destroy years of work in seconds.

This is not a sane career path for any one. In particular you are going to have to find a source of funding while you make it.

Btw It isn't that hard to create a youtube bot and the technology actually exists already and was the subject of a major youtube scandal.

[Draco-Onis]

that's delusional thinking. CEOs are the first ones to blame in almost every company. the stakes are extremely high at that level of management. Any wrong decision could sink the company and they will be the first to be blamed.

If you think CEOs are a bunch of golf players who smoke cigar all day then you live in a different era.

You mean like sears who is pretty much bankrupt? like Lehman Brothers whose leaders got huge golden parachutes? there's a huge difference between blame and being held accountable. Your picture of a CEO is straight out of movies.

[Draco-Onis]

You are cherry picking. Sears is an example, so every other company in the world must be the same.

How about the countless CEOs whose pay is not indicative of stock performance? let me know when you wake up to the real world. There's no one holding CEOs accountable when they fail and they know it but the hard working CEO is the exception not the rule most of the work is being done by people below them.