Captain Marvel [2019]

[Endus]

I would think this is reasonable, some kind of setup between why the Kree and the Zandarrians? had a peace treaty. Would also be a nice setup for a later stage Avengers movies dealing with a Skrull infiltration, assuming it's not totally defeated in this movie.

Even if Danvers kicks the everloving shit out of the entire Skrull Empire in her origin story, this is taking place like 25-30 years before the current day in the MCU. They'll have had a generation to recover and rebuild.

Not that I think they're actually gonna have her do that, I'm just saying, even if she did, there's plenty of ground for a modern Skrull invasion.

[Ragedaug]

I think part of it is that folks are treating it like it has to be this huge thing, when it should really have the same expectations as Doctor Strange or Antman. I do not think the fans are solely responsible for the vibe/ expectations, there definitely seems to be a feel that it should be Black Panther level when Black Panther shouldn't have even been Black Panther levels (prerelease expectations), if that makes sense.

The fans share a lot of the blame for the false expectations, however there are media/critics who are trying to hype this movie up beyond what it may be able to deliver, and of course the end scene in Infinity War didn't do it any favors with the hype that it caused.

I'm a big fan of comic book movies in general, and I don't think this will be a bad movie by any means. however this is just one of the first that I'm feeling no interest in seeing.

Compared to Black Panther, the promos made that out to be a really cool/fun movie, and along with Dr. Strange, while tertiary characters, the trailers drew me in and I was excited to see them.

I can't put my finger on why I'm feeling lackadaisical about Cpt Marvel. I don't think it's comic movie fatigue as I'm still excited to see End Game and Far From Home...just not sure what it is.

[Skulltaker]

Even if Danvers kicks the everloving shit out of the entire Skrull Empire in her origin story, this is taking place like 25-30 years before the current day in the MCU. They'll have had a generation to recover and rebuild.

Not that I think they're actually gonna have her do that, I'm just saying, even if she did, there's plenty of ground for a modern Skrull invasion.

Aren't the Skrull also kind of a big deal in the Comics, enemies wise? From what I've gathered they are a worthy enemy of an Avengers level movie.

Can't they mimick powers, aswell? It would be amazing if Captain Marvel turned out to be a Skrull stuck on Earth, and they have to rescue the real Carol Danvers in a future movie. Or any other hero, for that matter.

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I can't put my finger on why I'm feeling lackadaisical about Cpt Marvel. I don't think it's comic movie fatigue as I'm still excited to see End Game and Far From Home...just not sure what it is.

For me it's definitly fatigue. It's been to much, and the movies were to similar. You've heard it to often. "I'll end your war." "This is the Moment of Truth." "Blablabla." It's always the same.

It's like having your favorite meal for a whole week. Starting wednesday, you'll get bored, and you'll crave something else.

The entire politics and drama around it were just the tip on the scale. Superhero movies should be promoted as just that. A few hours of fun to get your mind of off reality. If there is a lesson to be learned, even better. But the movie should be for the fans first.

[Daffan]

B list side movie like DR Strange and Ant Man, although to spruce it up they have to make her OP for Endgame

[Super Kami Dende]

Lol, so the Large Franchise Cinemas in my City and other Major Cities in Australia have made it that the next week no other Movies have viewing times EXCEPT for Captain Marvel, every Screen is that movie alone for the entire day.

Seems like a pretty sneaky attempt to get people who would be taking their kids to the Movies, or hanging out with friends/ on a Date and wanting to see a Movie and give them 1 choice of what to watch should they have rather seen something else if given the choice, just to flex numbers on participation.

[Gallahadd]

Or maybe, they’re expecting a lot of viewers, due to high ticket orders? Not everything is an evil conspiracy.

[Sunseeker]

Aren't the Skrull also kind of a big deal in the Comics, enemies wise? From what I've gathered they are a worthy enemy of an Avengers level movie.

Can't they mimick powers, aswell? It would be amazing if Captain Marvel turned out to be a Skrull stuck on Earth, and they have to rescue the real Carol Danvers in a future movie. Or any other hero, for that matter.

The Skrulls were a pretty big deal, and as I recall early on, they were simply shapeshifters who could mimic form but not mutant powers. I think some genetic engineering shenanigans went on later that let them become able to either gain specific powers or copy them.

Wasn't there a "Ms Marvel is actually a skrull" storyline way back when? Anyone?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The critics see the movie today. Starting today you are required to use spoiler tags to discuss the movie's plot or you will be reported for trolling. Read the OP for more information.

[rogueMatthias]

Here's the thing with Captain Marvel.

Danvers has always been a weak character. She's always just kinda been there.. Or rather she hasn't been there, as writers just send her off into space or into a coma when they don't want her. She's had multiple different reinventions to try and make her more interesting, even becoming a cosmic being, but the most popular thing she'd done as a character through most of the 90s was give Rogue her powers. Seriously, what's her "Born Again" or "Winter Soldier" or any other memorable stories?

It makes sense that Marvel is fleshing her out more and have clearly tried to define her more - Marvel has many hugely popular female characters, but they're most wrapped up in Fox and Sony deals. The lesson that Marvel need to learn is that you can't make somebody a popular A-Lister just by keeping on telling everyone they're a popular A-lister. I feel there's a lot of the pushback directly to this. Fans would be excited about ANY Marvel movie, but everyone keeps saying how awesome and great she is, and how revultionary and groundbreaking the movie is so a lot of fans are just like "Meh. Danvers is lame".

It doesn't help that a lot of the trailers are super underwhelming. I have far more faith in Marvel Studios than I do Marvel Comics these days though. They even made me love Captain America. Hopefully they'll do what the comics have yet to be able to do, and make her a genuinely great character.

[Endus]

Here's the thing with Captain Marvel.

Danvers has always been a weak character. She's always just kinda been there.. Or rather she hasn't been there, as writers just send her off into space or into a coma when they don't want her. She's had multiple different reinventions to try and make her more interesting, even becoming a cosmic being, but the most popular thing she'd done as a character through most of the 90s was give Rogue her powers. Seriously, what's her "Born Again" or "Winter Soldier" or any other memorable stories?

It makes sense that Marvel is fleshing her out more and have clearly tried to define her more - Marvel has many hugely popular female characters, but they're most wrapped up in Fox and Sony deals. The lesson that Marvel need to learn is that you can't make somebody a popular A-Lister just by keeping on telling everyone they're a popular A-lister. I feel there's a lot of the pushback directly to this. Fans would be excited about ANY Marvel movie, but everyone keeps saying how awesome and great she is, and how revultionary and groundbreaking the movie is so a lot of fans are just like "Meh. Danvers is lame".

It doesn't help that a lot of the trailers are super underwhelming. I have far more faith in Marvel Studios than I do Marvel Comics these days though. They even made me love Captain America. Hopefully they'll do what the comics have yet to be able to do, and make her a genuinely great character.

Yes, Captain Marvel is decidedly B-list.

So was Iron Man, before his films came out. Ant-man and Doctor Strange, definitely B-list, more likely C-list. Black Panther, too. Guardians of the Galaxy? D-list. Not even C.

The A-team are, classically, the X-men, Wolverine all by himself, Spider-man, the Fantastic Four a while back but not in the 2000s really. Guys like Daredevil and the Punisher have been more popular than most of the MCU main crew. Those characters were available for Marvel to make films with because no other filmmakers had wanted the rights to those characters. It's why they didn't bother with X-men at all and haven't even mentioned Mutants. It's why Spider-man only came into the MCU once they got an agreement with Sony.

The MCU is what's making characters popular, now. Their major characters are all B- and C-listers that they made A-listers, with the sole exception of Spider-man.

[Svifnymr]

Or maybe, they’re expecting a lot of viewers, due to high ticket orders? Not everything is an evil conspiracy.

That's just what the Skrulls WANT you to think!

[Ragedaug]

Yes, Captain Marvel is decidedly B-list.

So was Iron Man, before his films came out. Ant-man and Doctor Strange, definitely B-list, more likely C-list. Black Panther, too. Guardians of the Galaxy? D-list. Not even C.

The A-team are, classically, the X-men, Wolverine all by himself, Spider-man, the Fantastic Four a while back but not in the 2000s really. Guys like Daredevil and the Punisher have been more popular than most of the MCU main crew. Those characters were available for Marvel to make films with because no other filmmakers had wanted the rights to those characters. It's why they didn't bother with X-men at all and haven't even mentioned Mutants. It's why Spider-man only came into the MCU once they got an agreement with Sony.

The MCU is what's making characters popular, now. Their major characters are all B- and C-listers that they made A-listers, with the sole exception of Spider-man.

That's a great point. Comparatively speaking, I wasn't a big fan of most of the Avengers individually pre-MCU. With Cpt Marvel I would put her there in a group with the Guardians of the Galaxy are far as how much I knew about her. So if they have some good/witty writing and there's some good chemistry between Danvers and Fury, it could still do well.

[Unholyground]

For me, the flashback stuff really depends on why it's used.

If you're using it to hide pertinent information from the audience, in a "this happened in the past but we're not gonna reveal that until the 11th hour for DRAMA", you're playing annoying games. What's creating drama isn't the circumstances, it's your representation of the circumstances. It's like doing a drama about whether a poor child, left in his room, will ever eat again, for it hath been so long since the poor child hath eaten, and isn't it terrible that they are going hungry, and oh look his mom went for groceries like 40 minutes ago and now she's back.

The whole "drama" didn't exist. I made it up by hiding info from the reader. That's the author fucking with his audience, not actual drama.

When it's used in a "you might need context for what's about to happen, so we're going to flash back to the context since it exists outside the main narrative, but only right at the point where it's going to actually matter to the viewer", it's fine. Same for "but what's X been up to?" type stuff.

And if your story involves memory loss and memories coming back you'd better bring your fucking A game, because that trope crawled into a hole and died 30 years ago and you'd better have a good excuse for digging up its corpse.


To bring this back to Captain Marvel, the whole film is kind of a flashback, set in the '90s as it is. That's fine, it's the "good" kind I outlined above. You're gonna need to know who Captain Marvel is before she comes blasting on screen in Endgame, so here's the flashback to her origin. She didn't matter to the overall narrative before now, so they haven't been concealing important info from the audience as a cheat.

The real question is are you excited for the new Hellboy? I think it is going to be way better than people have been saying it will be lol.

[Svifnymr]

That's a great point. Comparatively speaking, I wasn't a big fan of most of the Avengers individually pre-MCU. With Cpt Marvel I would put her there in a group with the Guardians of the Galaxy are far as how much I knew about her. So if they have some good/witty writing and there's some good chemistry between Danvers and Fury, it could still do well.

Yeah, I can see that maybe Iron Man is a B-list, but non-comic folks generally knew there was an Iron Man or Antman even if they didn't have details. Captain Marvel has to be at least C if not D. It still fits with my earlier comment that they're acting like we should expect A or B list from a C or D list. No doubt it'll do well just from the inertia of the MCU pushing behind it, hopefully it has a good story too.

I mean, did anyone really have ANY expectations from GotG1?

I do still wonder if the Fox deal makes Captain Marvel even more redundant, though it'll still be a couple years.

[Endus]

The real question is are you excited for the new Hellboy? I think it is going to be way better than people have been saying it will be lol.

I was a little thrown by the first trailer; I like Harbour for the role (he isn't Perlman, who's perfect, but Perlman's 68 and I'm realistic), but the makeup/outfit seemed off. The most recent trailer, though? Fully in. Holy balls I'm excited. I actually think the new production is sticking closer to Mignola's art style rendered into cinema than Del Toro's films did. I'm also a huge fan of Del Toro, but his visual style is very "rich", and Mignola's art is often deliberately sparse.

I've said more in the thread on that film, though, and I won't derail this thread further.

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Yeah, I can see that maybe Iron Man is a B-list, but non-comic folks generally knew there was an Iron Man or Antman even if they didn't have details. Captain Marvel has to be at least C if not D. It still fits with my earlier comment that they're acting like we should expect A or B list from a C or D list. No doubt it'll do well just from the inertia of the MCU pushing behind it, hopefully it has a good story too.

I mean, did anyone really have ANY expectations from GotG1?

I do still wonder if the Fox deal makes Captain Marvel even more redundant, though it'll still be a couple years.

Captain Marvel's popularity fell off a bit, but the character used to be one of the flagships for the company. She's always had a decent following, at least on-par with the likes of Black Panther and Doctor Strange.

[Skulltaker]

Captain Marvel's popularity fell off a bit, but the character used to be one of the flagships for the company. She's always had a decent following, at least on-par with the likes of Black Panther and Doctor Strange.

Wasn't that 'another' Captain Marvel, though? Carol Danvers is relativly new to the role, iirc from wikipedia.

[Endus]

Wasn't that 'another' Captain Marvel, though? Carol Danvers is relativly new to the role, iirc from wikipedia.

Danvers only took on the moniker of "Captain Marvel" in, I think, 2012.

As a character, Danvers has been in Marvel comics since the 1970s. As Miss Marvel. She's had her own comics (as opposed to being a secondary character/sidekick) since 1977.

At the time, there was another Captain Marvel, who she was connected to, a Kree named Mar-Vell. That dude died (seemingly permanently) back in the 1980s runs. It was a big deal at the time. Danvers kept on Miss Marveling, and having really solid sales, for decades after. Her taking on Captain Marvel as a title was basically a recognition that Mar-Vell was never coming back, so she may as well take on his title rather than leaving it empty.

If you're talking about "Captain Marvel", sure, Danvers has only been flying under that name a few years. Her history as a major character in Marvel comics, however, dates back a half-century.

[Svifnymr]

Captain Marvel's popularity fell off a bit, but the character used to be one of the flagships for the company. She's always had a decent following, at least on-par with the likes of Black Panther and Doctor Strange.

Maybe, I can't say since to me Danvers was just the lady that Rogue nuked. That said, I do muddle comic and non-comic fans in my system. There's a chance a non-comic person heard of BP or Strange, though they'd be fairly obscure. No non-comic fan ever heard of the GotG though, I'd bet, though maybe Rocket Raccoon. I doubt any non comic fan heard of Danvers, though anything is possible.

I'm sure there's a generation of people that only know Iceman as one of Spidey's friends...

I don't think I would ever have heard anyone make the claim that Danvers was a flagship of the company though. Even Mar-Vell was probably not. I'm sure there was some headlining done at various points because authors liked them, but readers? Can't say for sure, but certainly no one I ever knew.

[Altrec]

Yes, Captain Marvel is decidedly B-list.

So was Iron Man, before his films came out. Ant-man and Doctor Strange, definitely B-list, more likely C-list. Black Panther, too. Guardians of the Galaxy? D-list. Not even C.

Yes, and no. Guardians, yes d-list c-list at best maybe. Dr. Strange, Black Panther, and I think Ant-man had at least had more public exposure than Captain Marvel in the form of appearances in various animated shows like Spider-Man the animated series etc. over the years so I would put them as more b-list than Captain Marvel who fits more of a c-list category. As for Iron Man he even had a stand alone show in the 90s and was one of the main character in another show in the 60s in addition to appearances in other shows. Iron Man was probably somewhere between a-list and b-list at least as far as recognition.

I will say Captain Marvel had an appearance in the 90s X-Men cartoon, but that was as Ms. Marvel in different costume entirely and the story was Rogue took her powers. It almost doesn't count compared to the other character appearances as they are at least recognizable to their modern day counterparts Ms/Captain Marvel not so much.

That said what list she falls in is the least of my concerns with where this movie may or may not go and what effect it has on End Game.

[Stormcall]

Yeah, I can see that maybe Iron Man is a B-list, but non-comic folks generally knew there was an Iron Man or Antman even if they didn't have details.

Prior to 2008, if you asked non-comics fans what "Iron Man" is, most of them would tell you it's a song by Black Sabbath(or Ozzy, if they had less musical knowledge). Thor wouldn't have fared much better. And even fewer of them would known Antman or Dr. Strange or Black Panther.

Like the other guy said, prior to 2008, if you had asked anyone who wasn't already a comics fan to name 10 Marvel heroes, you'd see a lot more people naming BLADE(who they knew about cause he had 3 movies) than you would people naming Iron Man or Thor. And you'd probably have had more clueless people listing Batman or Superman(not realizing they were DC instead of Marvel) than you would people listing Dr. Strange or Antman or Black Panther or anyone in the GotG. Trust me on this, most of my friends are non-comics fans. Pretty much the entire fucking MCU, outside of Spidey, Hulk, Cap, and Punisher(if you count the Netflix stuff) were unknown to all of them prior to the movies. Blade was more well known than Iron Man and Thor and Antman, cause he at least had 3 fairly big movies under his belt.