Patch 8.1.5 PTR - New Kul Tiran and Zandalari Customization Options, DLC 670

[tripleh]

They want to make the patch seem large by doing these changes. Really though , they could have used the time to work on something else or fix real game issues. Instead they want to fool players and argue that this helps the game by moving portals. What there really not admitting is there running out of ideas for content. Portals never were an issue, same with flying. Until the devs decided to make it one. Watch next, there gonna increase the cooldown for hearthstones, just to slow players down more.

[THEORACLE64]

Appeal to authority

The game wouldn't exist without players.

And the game wouldn’t exist without them. You can’t cater and pander to the fan base all the time, because, well... look where we are.

[Logwyn]

Do you even know what "time gating" is or do you just like repeating that buzz word you see here on mmo-c? Adding or removing portals is NOT time gating. If there was a portal to a place that is only accessible by that portal, and said portal is not operational for another week or longer, THAT would be time gating.

You people and your blind hatred for a game and its developer is mind boggling. You make yourself look extremely ignorant with nonsense jabs like these.

Making it take longer to get somewhere takes more time....... And if they make it longer all of a sudden. Not hard to put two and two together.

No where did I say I hated the game either. I'll give you a 2/10 since I replied to what you think is a well thought out reply.

"You make yourself look extremely ignorant with nonsense jabs like these." Pot calling the kettle black.

[Morgaith]

I can't get over how ugly kultiran females are.

[Daedius]

That glorious golden beard!

[shoooter]

Just listen to those BS answers on portals. "Really, how convenient does it have to be?" Well, how about at least as convenient as it's been for the last 5 years?!

Instantly hopping around the world(s) is fun! What isn't fun is flying high into the air, aiming in the general direction I need to go, hitting auto-run, and alt-tabbing out for 3 minutes.

[Kyphael]

Great, now I get to fly over Duskwood/Stranglethorn for the millionth fucking time just to get to Blasted Lands/Outlands. You'd think doing it a thousand times would have earned me a portal.

[Kallisto]

i feel they should have atleast keep the cot and karazan portal. if your an engeneer tanaris is a quick jump away for the rest of the world its either drenai city or ogrimar wich is quite a fly away.

as for karazan... well if ur aliance its a quick 5 min fly offf wich aint that bad but if your horde well you have 2 choice. if your 120+ and the arathi warfront is horde controlled your close if not its undercity

im aliance and engeneer so im happy camper

Nah it's quicker with Org > Stranglethorn > Kara even if you have to wait a bit. Or the Portal to twilight Highlands (That'll still be there right?)

- - - Updated - - -

Two crowds.

Unfortunately not. There has been people bitching about this and using it as a "Off to classic I go." type posts here in MMO champion and elsewhere acting like Classic had all of these portals and conveniences. The post you quoted has a large element of truth to it.

[Ophenia]

My freaking god.

I didn’t get a chance to verify it, but

I don’t think that’s intentional and should be changed in future build

I don’t think that’d feel right

Give this guy some information already, or prevent him from posting if he doesn't have a clue about anything

[Deonora]

Look I don't like complaining all that much. But I feel like if Blizzard would stop trying to force things on people ..that would be great.

Stop trying to play the game for us. If I want to explore. I will explore. If I want to get from point a to point b as fast as possible I would take the portals.

"You think you know but you don't"

[Loveliest]

I don't get the questions about Portals or rather the arguments they put out why it is bad.

First of all, no portal to Ironforge/Thunder Bluff. Of course there doesn't need to be one. Both of those locations has a quick taxi to get to. Orgrimmar<->Thunder Bluff has the airships. Stormwind<->Ironforge has the Deeprun Tram. Why do people need a portal when there is already a travel path there, it is also close enough to use a regular flying taxi or even flying mount.

Secondly, Caverns of Time. There has never been a portal there from the main hub. The way to get there has always been through Northrend Dalaran or Shattrath City (if you wanted the portal route), or you can just take the portal to Uldum and fly. There is no need for a direct route from Orgrimmar/Stormwind's new portal room, because there is no quests that need to be done at Caverns of Time while you are playing around in the major city. That's like asking for a Level 100 portal to a Level 10 zone, portals should only be for locations that are relevant for your level, which is why the portals for Caverns of Time exist in the older main hubs when it was relevant.

Thirdly, Karazhan/Dark Portal/Hellfire Peninsula. That people mention Karazhan seems to just be because of mount farming. It is a dungeon like most others, why does it need a special portal? I know it had one in Legion, but that was most likely because it was in another continent from the rest of the expansion zones. Not to mention the portal from Atiesh. As for Dark Portal and Hellfire Peninsula, if the portal in Orgrimmar/Stormwind for those zones are removed, then it might be annoying, unless they are available from the quest that tells you to go there. Though if they are available from an NPC then I see no issue, it doesn't really need to be an actual portal you click, if it still is accessible from an NPC.

Lastly, Pandaria. My only question here is, why do you need to go to the main hub in Pandaria? Most of the content in Pandaria is out on the continent and not in the main hub.

Do you know what I do when I take a FP? I alt tab and do something else. Nowadays, more often than not I have a visual novel game running at the same time as WoW so I don't feel like I'm wasting time.
Have to get to a WQ? Get FP, alt tab, play something else. When you land there's a specific sound, so I'll alt tab back when I hear that. Sometimes, flights take as long as 8 minutes in Kalimdor. Even when the flight is short, I start looking at achi pane, pet pane, xmog pane. Tell me, what do you do when you fly? Cause I can't believe there's actually someone out there who sits on the mount and looks at the screen enjoying the scenery for the 400th time.

[Koward]

“You don’t know what you like, I know what you like!”
Sounds like gaslighting.

Has this approach ever even worked? It’s this attitude that creates the disconnect between developers and the playerbase.
I’m still salty over losing flying even though they were sure that “I would like it I just didn’t know yet”. I mourn expansions like WoTLK or TBC where content was specifically created with flying in mind.

That's a perfectly valid question.
It's totally about "You don't know what you like, I know what you like". And you are right, that's how disconnection can happen between devs and players, if devs are wrong in their judgement.
But to some extent, the whole entertainment industry is about putting trust into authors, producers, developers, designers.. to make something you like. Unfortunate truth is that most people (and I include myself when saying that) do not know how to make something that pleases them. They can smell something is bad when they try it, but to come up with an efficient solution is much harder than to say "hey there is a problem with that". And it's very hard to ask yourself "Do I know exactly how to build something I like?" because you intuitively think "Well yes of course" if you don't think deeper into the implications of your own ideas.

So in a short way, it's really hard to think what boundaries a box should have if you are inside the box. Of course everything can be abused and a balance always needs to be found but letting the players hive mind directly pick decisions for the game does not necessarily lead to game they will prefer.

TLDR: Players can say something is bad, but it's much much harder to guess a good solution when you are not trained in game design.

What makes the game better for you =/= what makes the game better for others.

What exciting thing will I find on that flight path? Who will I fight on that flight path?
<...>
If you want to use your mount or run by foot to get anywhere, why don't you do that? Why do you have to drag me into it? Why can't you enjoy your part of the game and I enjoy mine?

If you want the old world to be more alive, you start by adding things to do in it before you remove the portals - not the other way around.
<...>

You're the child here expecting everyone to play the game in the way you want it to be played.
You're the child here not being able to resist taking that instant portal even though you have the choice not to take it.

A) Nothing, flight path have the same problems as portals regarding that. You are right.

B) This is a well-known "don't like it don't use it" argument. That can't be used for anything multiplayer-based since players follow the path of least resistance. If you want interactions between them you have to make sure most of the time players take the intended path.

C) Now that's a very good point. Blizzard should definitely have thought about making the portal alternative interesting, and put it before or in the same patch.

I do not expect everyone to play the game the same way someone intended, but I definitely believe they are tendencies in the behaviors of players (including myself), and that you can use those to direct players towards interesting content.
Everyone is able to pick its own rules (like not taking any portal), but you must understand the power of common rules and their impact in multiplayer games. It's not Skyrim.

[Jonsse]

Imagine how large and connected the world would feel if we didn't get teleported to instances and raids...

[Kazlofski]

I don't get this lame excuse that it adds value to the world feeling bigger and such.
What's the point of making the world feel bigger if they have no plans whatsoever on making it worthwhile and useful to travel actively?

There's no interesting events happening, no treasure chests that are worth opening, no rares worth killing, nothing. So there is no point making it feel bigger if it's empty and devoid of excitement and fun. I have seen the scenery over a thousand times, I don't need to see it yet another time.

If they keep using that stupid excuse over and over again, at least fix the damn game to justify said excuse. Leveling alts is a travesty.

[Lothaeryn]

*Removal portals to make the world feel more alive* - "wtf you're taking more away than you're giving! Give me my portals back!"
*add more portals for convenience* - "I miss Vanilla when the world felt alive and you couldn't teleport everywhere!"

This is a Pandora's box scenario, you cannot undo damage to the experience once it has been done. There is no real cause for removing the portal network as it is now. The game has grown exponentially larger than Vanilla ever dreamed of being, back then you could get away with not having a portal to every location. Now? its difficult to imagine even finding the ports and boats needed to get to some locations, and some expansions (MoP onward) dont even have a fucking way to the content, it literally is just a damn portal to access it!

So to say the world is going to "feel larger" after removing these portals is just farcical, the game is already large to the point its exceedingly problematic to not have them in place for basic navigation's sake.

[barrsftw]

This is a Pandora's box scenario, you cannot undo damage to the experience once it has been done. There is no real cause for removing the portal network as it is now. The game has grown exponentially larger than Vanilla ever dreamed of being, back then you could get away with not having a portal to every location. Now? its difficult to imagine even finding the ports and boats needed to get to some locations, and some expansions (MoP onward) dont even have a fucking way to the content, it literally is just a damn portal to access it!

So to say the world is going to "feel larger" after removing these portals is just farcical, the game is already large to the point its exceedingly problematic to not have them in place for basic navigation's sake.

That's a good point. The world is much larger than it was before we had portal access everywhere. Even with all of the portals the world still feels bigger to me than in Vanilla for example... because it is.

[Nathiest]

Kul Tiran are just tall Dwarfs.

[Kolvarg]

*Removal portals to make the world feel more alive* - "wtf you're taking more away than you're giving! Give me my portals back!"
*add more portals for convenience* - "I miss Vanilla when the world felt alive and you couldn't teleport everywhere!"

It doesn't make any sense to only apply these "pro-immersion" measures on a few select parts of the game, while the rest and majority of the game doesn't give a damn about immersion.

Those who want Vanilla are likely either not playing, or certainly not using the portals to get any Vanilla-like experience. The people who were actively using those portals regularly are people who were likely farming old content for gold, mounts or transmogs on a weekly basis. This change won't make any difference for them apart from making their farming runs unnecessarily longer.

It doesn't make the world dangerous, it doesn't make the world interesting, it doesn't create interaction opportunities with other players, it offers no additional gameplay other than hopping on your flying mount, getting high up in the air and pressing auto-run while aimed in the direction of the place you want to reach, and then waiting till you reach it.

Just because in a vacuum it is technically more "vanilla-like" to have less portals, it doesn't mean it will offer a more "vanilla-like" experience, and more importantly, a good experience, especially when it is a tiny "feature" that goes in an entirely opposite design direction of what the game has been for the last half of its lifespan.

[monteiro]

I never wanted so hard for someone to be replaced at their job. Whoever is behind this decision should be banned from the gaming industry.
He isn't going full retarded. He is going Ultra Instinct retarded.

[Gadzooks]

I don't blame the CM, he's just trying to spin the poor decision making of the devs who are doing these changes. I guess "throw a bunch of questions at posters" is the new deflection method, since they fired the guy who had some social skills. (Bornakk has been there a while, but he's still a bit...rusty on that whole "talk to players" thing, because he seems to have spent most of his time there avoiding that.) (The only way this could be worse is having Lore talk to the dickba...er...forum posters...that would be a true shit show that would require a pallet of popcorn to be delivered)

I mean, c'mon. Removing convenience is a good thing, for 'muh nostalgia"? That's what Classic is for. WoW has 15 years of expansions, there should be MORE convenient travel, especially for level capped players. Okay, fine, make players unlock portals as they level, but do they really think people sit and watch the scenery on flights at this point? And, how does "Gee, it makes the world seem bigger!" is laughable when you can enter almost all of the end game content via a LFG/LFR type tool. Do they even make you find the entrance to dungeons anymore?

And gimme a smallish effing break on the "class fantasy" nonsense, Bornakk, Ion and his band of merry class destroyers don't have a single fuck to give for that. And, mages can make portals anywhere, which is their real strength, the portals everyone else uses don't move around like mages can, and people will still have to travel to the hub/portals. Hey, you tried, Bornakk. I know. It's not your fault. It's not your fault some dev decided his personal pet project was screwing up what most other small indie dev studios insert seamlessly into their content to give convenience to their players. Because, hey, what do they know, right?

I just love the logic of this:

New content you haven't found on the map, PVP, raids, islands, warfronts: teleport to instantly.

Old content you already played: WALK ALL THE WAY UPHILL IN SNOW! NO U! WORK FOR IT! YOU WILL HAVE THE NOSTALGIA WE INSIST ON!

Most games reward time spent, in all kinds of small ways, through perks like instant travel and such, so players can play more easily, and feel like they accomplished something. Because everyone wants that "Spent 10,000 Hours On A Gryphon" achievement, or can't wait to sit on a dock waiting for a boat. Boy, that's a great use of your time, isn't it? I just love World of Waiting For Boats.

Travel is not content, boys.

But oh, no, not World Of Ioncraft. You LOSE stuff the more you invest in his game. Because that's the Fun™ he and the devs insist on you having, while micromanaging every aspect of the game they still allow you to play. I guess it's about time for Ion to wave a Bee mount at everyone to distract them, again. Players are paying too much attention to the Fun™ again.

The mindset of the devs continues to baffle and amuse. I can't think of a game dev team that is as passive aggressive towards their own customers, like the WoW devs. It's fascinating, which is why I still come by these forums.