Who is the Tidemother?

[Aucald]

If Azeroth was talking to the tidesages at one point, I doubt she'd be talking now. She just got stabbed so she'd be unavailable for the moment.

That might explain how Azshara or N'Zoth took over, if it was Azeroth that the Tidesages were originally speaking to or communing with.

[derpkitteh]

yeah, i think it's azshara.

i think she's been subtly manipulating them for years. she's been alive and a naga for longer than humans have existed.

if it is her, the only thing weird would be the question why she chose to corrupt them slowly? the gilnean humans never had this belief in this tidemother, so it developed after they moved to kul tiras. the old gilneans had 0 idea what a night elf or naga is, either. there would have been no reason for her to hide her true form or power.

[The Stormbringer]

Look at the pearl you have to " deactivate " during the Stormsong Campaign.

" Tidemother's Pride "
" Tidemother's Wrath"
" Tidemother's Radiance"

Conveniently we have seen :

" Pride of Azshara "
" Wrath of Azshara "
in before " Radiance of Azshara " soon

https://www.wowhead.com/quest=51320/sealed-fate

So, Tidemother is Azshara, since she loves to be revered and having cult around her, that makes sense for her to lure the Kul Tiran in a reverence state, she then was more " demanding" as time was passing and as nzoth plans began ton unfold, culminating to this. .

/thread

/clapclapclap

Research complete! We can all go home.

[Alanar]

Azshara doesn't need souls.

She needs live followers willing to die for her. The entire naga society is built around the cult of personality that is Azshara. These are High Elves of such devotion that rather than seeing themselves transformed into monsters by an act of the queen, but are thankful and have pledged that life to any horrible act the queen commands them to.

Basically Sylvanas is an amateur.

What I'm getting at is Azshara is low hanging fruit, but if she were the actual Tidemother there would be no Naga friction, no need for the church to be infiltrated, no reason to send sea monsters to attack Kul'Tiras even.

The tidemother just being a name for a semi-nebulous force or object of belief is the most plausible answer of course, but it's pretty boring and takes away from what could be a really cool story about Helya having a duality in nature. Where part of her is still the noble gatekeeper to the shadowlands and sealer of the elements, just as another part of her is angry vengeance for her life being taken away.

Also remember this, the Naga are attacking Kul'Tiras, but I don't think I've seen a single Kvaldir.

Proof of favoritism?

I guess its a dutch saying winning souls( this coule mean what ever) she just needs them to be on her side thats all.

The kvaldir being part of the naga is an obvious no, helya realm or naga realm( nazjatar) are 2 seperate places.

Like I said before.. its like elune. Even if they would give us proof of them being more then what we know would kinda ruin the secretcy around those beings(?) Its like coming up with a cure for the walking dead serie. It would ruin the story.

Edit: but some other people got better theories imo,
So in this case I also believe Azshara is their tidemother.

[Leodok]

Very unlikely to be Azshara. If it was her, she'd just show up as the tidemother, rather than this naga witch no kultiran has heard about, and convince them to do whatever she wants them to do. Plus, she wouldn't help the tidesages who want to stop her plans (and succeed).
For the same reasons, not N'zoth either.

Freya just seems completely random. Did she ever have a sea theme?

Helya is a decent possibility, maybe not with the same details you describe, but reasonable.

I think it's some new character, probably elemental in nature, or maybe even a sea equivalent of the tauren Earthmother. We might find out in 8.2.

[Bigby]

It's not Azshara. We purge the Old God influence over the Tidesages and considering the waters still answer the uncorrupted ones before and after their defeat, it's sure as hell not them. Nor is it some "what if that was what she wanted them to think?" because Blizzard aren't subtle enough for that.

It's either going to be a Greater Water Elemental, a 'put a face to it' catch-all for the Water Elemental Presence around Kul Tiras, or remain vague.

[Shelly]

I guess its a dutch saying winning souls( this coule mean what ever) she just needs them to be on her side thats all.

The kvaldir being part of the naga is an obvious no, helya realm or naga realm( nazjatar) are 2 seperate places.

Like I said before.. its like elune. Even if they would give us proof of them being more then what we know would kinda ruin the secretcy around those beings(?) Its like coming up with a cure for the walking dead serie. It would ruin the story.

Edit: but some other people got better theories imo,
So in this case I also believe Azshara is their tidemother.

I can tell english isn't your second language, so let me say it again.

The Kvaldir are literally at war with the naga.

Meanwhile despite Kvaldir being an island raiding group they aren't attacking the shores of Kul'tiras.

So far less chance of Azshara being the tidemother compared to Helya.

[Volardelis]

I always view it as just some deity that the tidesages worship. Not an actual person or thing, just the sea itself.

From this, I can see Azshara taking on the mantle of the "tidemother" to help corrupt the tidesages. Similar to how HADES took on the role of the "buried shadow" to deceive the shadow carja in Horizen Zero Dawn.

[matrix123mko]

Probably Azshara or some other old god aligned entity.

No, she helped us to burn Stormsong's ship.

[Muajin76]

Anyway let's read the Legends of the Tidesages:


The Tidemother is either Azshara or N'zoth, whispering to Stormsong. We know that there was always darkness within the whispers by brother Pike, it just became more pronounced recently. I personally think it was N'zoth and Azshara was just his emissary to Stormsong.

Seeing how the whispers made him evil and turned him against his own people, most likely it's N'zoth in disguise. Best bet is that the tidemother is one of the two.

[Donald Hellscream]

No, she helped us to burn Stormsong's ship.

Old gods and their subordinates are deceptive so it is still possible that it is an old god aligned entity, it could also just be a very powerful elemental since Tidepriests does bear some resemblance to shamans, hell it could even be a until now unknown titanic watcher.

[gutnbrg]

really reaching with freya

[shadowmatrix]

I don't want to just assume it's Azshara but... It's probably Azshara.

If it was Azshara she wouldn't need to corrupt them, they would already be willing to follow her. It seems to be a fairly new corruption that started not long ago since not even Ashvane knew the fleet was truly missing. If she knew it was then she wouldn't have waited so long to start the attack. I imagine she assumed they were caught in a storm and were riding it out on some island to do repairs.

[Frontenac]

I wonder if the Abyssal Scepter is linked to the Tidemother. Because it looks very elven to me. Of the "night" type.

[Newname1234567890]

Neptulon now goes by Neptulonia and we should accept her for who she is

[Raetary]

its no one.

its just their religious concept of the sea.
there is no tidemother, just like there is no tauren earthmother.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't want to just assume it's Azshara but... It's probably Azshara.

if it was azshara, the remaining tidesages wouldn't still worship her.

[Destinas]

I've thought about this a lot since the start of BfA. There are some very interesting things about the Tidesage religion that aren't often brought up that make it a bit fuzzy. I apologize for the wall of text, but there is some interesting info here.

It could entirely be Azshara, or not at all, because the religion hasn't been around in Kul Tiras very long.

In Drustvar the NPCs that do speak of religion speak of the Light (like in To Market, To Market and a priest spirit in Barrowknoll Cemetery) - we also see no Tidesages in Drustvar at all. Added to this, Stormsong Valley is a relatively new addition to the nation of Kul Tiras. In Legends of the Tidesages it says:

In the beginning, we were blind.
We were lost.
We left the howling streets of our homes in search of greater existence.
In the end, we found the sea. Or rather, it found us.

Though the waves howled as home did, it was not the shuttered existence we knew.
For most, that was enough.
With each writhe came loss, but sustenance. With sustenance, freedom.

This points to the settlers of Stormsong Valley (and the first Tidesages) coming from Gilneas - after the wall was up. Gilneas was not "howling" or "shuttered" until the Greymane Wall was constructed. Meaning that Tidesages first came about around the time of the Scourge. This isn't the first time we've heard of Gilneans leaving their nation around the same time - the settlers of Bradensbrook in Val'sharah also left Pyrewood Village after the Greymane Wall was closed to them and the Worgen were released (detailed in a journal).

However, the most damning piece of evidence is the fact that Stormsong's father was the first one to settle in the valley. This was stated in an Alliance quest called Eye of the Storm.

Taelia says: Was Lord Stormsong always this cruel?
Tideguard Victoria says: Not at all. He was so kind before the whispers took him.
Tideguard Victoria says: It was his father who guided us to this valley, many years ago.
Lord Stormsong says: And it is I who will deliver us to our glorious future beneath the tides.

It should be noted that Stormsong affirms the claim with his statement to them as well.

It's also interesting to note that if Tidesages are a relatively new addition to Kul Tiras, then Daelin Proudmoore embraced it quickly. In Warcraft 3 he had Hydromancers in his army.

Now with the Tidemother herself, it could have always been Azshara, considering the fact that Tidesages have been around for a couple decades, at most. Azshara's forces first surfaced around that time - it's entirely possible that she discovered the Gilnean settlers and Stormsong's father around that time, and granted them a bit of power, corrupting them as time went on. This is backed up by the fact that N'Zoth is touching the Shrine of the Storm himself (as seen in the next raid), and Xal'atath says that the Precipice of Oblivion "has had many names" (alluding that it may have been around since the Black Empire). Added to that, the only images in the Shrine of the Storm show nefarious, tentacled, Old God-like horrors, with Tidesages summoning them.

Tidesage Mural 1 - they are summoning waves and tentacles.
Tidesage Mural 2 - notice the ship's rune looks like a kraken, or octopus.
The floor in the last boss room of the dungeon - this is a place used by Tidesages often. It's where the doors outside lead from the water, under the Shrine itself, where they bless ships inside the Shrine.
Corrupted Tidesage Banner - notice it is a Kraken (much like depictions of the Tidemother in the shape of the Shrine and their totems, as well as N'Zoth) being stabbed by a giant blade with an eyeball (Sargeras' sword? Xal'atath?).
As noted in "Voices Below", there have been k'thir in legends for a long time to "warn of the dangers of delving too deep" into Tidesage magic.

However, there are three major things that make me question if it has been Azshara the entire time.
1.) The whispers were kinder, and then at some point changed. The wording of it seems like perhaps something took over the whispers, changing hands, instead of the Tidemother changing altogether.

Brother Pike says: Long has my order listened to the sea to guide our ships and our people. Gentle whispers, imperceptible to most.
Brother Pike says: Over time, the whispers... changed. At times they were demanding, even violent.
Brother Pike says: We attempted to guard ourselves against them, to resist them, but I fear we may have failed.

2.) Despite the fact that Azshara (and the k'thir/Faceless) have corrupted most of the Tidesages, many of the Storm's Wake Tidesages and Tideguards use the powers of the Tidemother to purify the corruption of the Old Gods, and even send souls to the Tidemother. We get a toy that does this, we break people free from corruption with Tidemother-blessed spells, and the other Tidesages are still able to use elemental powers. This, to me, means that there are two "Tidemothers" at work - the real one, and Azshara.

3.) The Tidemother collects the souls of those purified by water. When using the Dead Ringer toy, it has the same effect as the bell during a quest and world quest in Stormsong - we purify their corrupted souls, and send them to the depths to the Tidemother. While Old Gods certainly feast on souls, Azshara does not. She's never once been shown to deal with souls of the departed, or even been shown to have any ability that resembles that at all. And, like mentioned above, these souls are purified of the corruption that Azshara and N'Zoth have put on the Tidesages/guards/workers in the first place.

One of the only beings to have a water theme, tentacles, elemental powers, have water elementals, and deal with souls is Helya. Apparently she's not dead, so it's entirely possible that she was the one to guide the first Tidesages to Stormsong Valley, and give them powers, in order to collect their souls later on. It would also make sense that the "whispers changed" if Helya had dominion over the Tidesages for decades, then she died, only for Azshara to take over once Helya was temporarily set back in Trial of Valor.

However, it's entirely possible it's someone else. Helya wasn't benevolent or kind at all - traits mentioned that the Tidemother had. It could, in the end, have been a Wild God, a powerful Kraken being, Azshara, or something else entirely.

[Bigby]

They are shaman though. The whispers taught them how to harness the elements, they don't need them anymore to do so.

Shamanism still needs the Elements to actually agree to be harnessed, unless you're practising Dark Shamanism which the non-corrupted Tidesages obviously aren't since they have such reverence for them.

[Alanar]

I can tell english isn't your second language, so let me say it again.

Sad.. but honestly dude I dont think there was any need in saying this.. it makes you look like a douche just saying.

And yea not realy.. your guess is as good as any one else here. There is some logic in what other people said in this thread which makes way more sense to be Azshara if you think twice.

[A Chozo]

Ok, I think it could be a creature like Nespirah, or even herself.