Rearranging and Removing Portals, Upcoming Beast Mastery Changes - Patch 8.1.5

[Eleccybubb]

Which is why WoW stomped all competition for 10+ years and arguably still is

Eh I think ESO and FF14 are better these days in my opinion. But ofc just my opinion.

I don't think WoW is there right now for me. I don't see a passionate dev team, I don't see enjoyable content in BFA among other factors.

[Eleccybubb]

Oh I agree it's not as it was say 5 years ago where WoW was the only serious MMO worth playing. And when I used to fairly confidently say WoW was the best MMO, since BFA I don't have that confidence anymore. I'm playing a lot more ESO these days and still need to try FF, but BFA is the first time in a long time where it doesn't seem like WoW is the only serious choice for me

What I don't like is when people (not you ofc) pull crap out like "amg less subs so objectively worse" or pull out the whole "its not WoW so it's bad" crap.

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but deliberately not appreciating the genre just because you have 1 game you love like no other is silly imo.

[Xemioza]

Ppl writing about cancelling their subs because there are no portals, LOL
Same kind of ppl saying “I’ll quit if they dont give flying back”. You know what, noone gives a f...
Simple solution to your problems
“/guild Anyone can make me a portal to stonard?”

There are plenty of ppl who are enjoying the game and not even reading your cry posts xd
Dont like it, quit.
I’ve seen hundreds of comments saying “WoW is dying, I’m going to quit” and these ppl are loging every day to do their quests...

[kamuimac]

Trust me. Vanilla WoW was far more casual than it's competitors. Which was a good thing by the way because MMO's at the time frankly demanded so much time only people who played at least 12 hours a day could get anywhere.

You didn't lose XP or items when you died
You had more than 2-3 abilities
It was possible to cap in a few weeks
Raids were not hard
Gear was fairly accessible if you were in a guild, even more so in 1.12 and even more so again in BC
The story was fairly straight forwards and easily comprehended

Most of these things were alien to other MMO's at the time. WoW did so well because it opened up the genre of MMO to a far wider audience, much like hearthstone did with cardgames.

you forgot 1 really important thing

people couldnt ninja

a lot of people belive that "ninja" meant stealing in dungeons by pressing need - oh boy they never player mmorpgs before wow - where whenever you were kiling mobs out in the world there was always 2-3 people runing around and desperately trying to click on mobs first because most games back then were first clicked first server - and what was happening when really big mob was dying and 30-50 people were trying to click it before you

really - people have no clue how casual vanilla was back then.

[Martymark]

Eh I think ESO and FF14 are better these days in my opinion. But ofc just my opinion.

FF14 wasn't better than Legion...but it's vastly better than BFA.

[Eleccybubb]

FF14 wasn't better than Legion...but it's vastly better than BFA.

Disagree personally. Legion was good but at that point FF14 became my main MMO.

Legion was where I started getting a bit miffed with the game but the experience overall was good so I kept on going.

[Eggroll]

I’ve seen hundreds of comments saying “WoW is dying, I’m going to quit” and these ppl are loging every day to do their quests...

Well, they are giving a fuck. I can remember the flying drama back in WoD vividly. It was a mess and a PR desaster.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I can't think of a single time someone has actually said this and meant it unless they were talking about Vanilla. And Vanilla is viewed through 12in thick nostalgia goggles, and it was only fun back then because we didn't know any better.

And even if I'm completely bassackwards wrong on that.....Classic servers are coming for anyone who wants that "inconvenient" gameplay. Leave current conveniences in the live game alone. Nobody wants portals removed except Blizzard.

Oh I'm in agreement. It has been a thing though, for many years, that people hail the inconvenience as the thing that made WoW a success. Pretty dumb when WoW was casual for MMORPGs even when it came out.

Blizzard's being right tards for going along those lines, but they seem to be quite content making such decisions these days.

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Ppl writing about cancelling their subs because there are no portals, LOL
Same kind of ppl saying “I’ll quit if they dont give flying back”. You know what, noone gives a f...
Simple solution to your problems
“/guild Anyone can make me a portal to stonard?”

There are plenty of ppl who are enjoying the game and not even reading your cry posts xd
Dont like it, quit.
I’ve seen hundreds of comments saying “WoW is dying, I’m going to quit” and these ppl are loging every day to do their quests...

Simply not true.

Whilst I agree that the whole "WoW is dying/dead" song and dance is dumb as hell and the people resorting to it even dumber still, it is a fact that the outcry about flying made them change their minds from never adding flight again in current content, to the system we have now.

Seeing as how WoW is a subscriber driven product, Blizzard for sure does care about what makes people stay and what keeps people paying for access. I don't imagine enough people to make a difference cancel their sub over not having Pathfinder Part 2 yet.

And yes, some of the people constantly being negative are little more than trolls. Others however are critical of the game for perfectly legitimate reasons but still care about it enough to voice their concerns and continue playing the content they do enjoy. There's for sure plenty of people enjoying BfA, in fact I'm willing to bet they're more than enough to have Blizzard continue on their current path.

Question is, how many final straws can they continue to place on the proverbial Camel's back before they have another WoD, albeit slower in pace, on their hands.

[grexly75]

ESO and FFXIV have thier own problems too. No mmo is perfect out there.

ESO lack the content that WoW have, the game is more close to comparition to SWKotOR since is more focus on single pve that anything else.
And FFXIV while is a exelent game, the bosses fight tent to become bored quick, and the game is more close to a Chiness/Japaness MMO that a Wester Style one like WoW.

Ahh k never knew as the only other MMO's I tried were Rift and Guildwars 2, because they were f2p but got bored with them and have not played either in a long time..


On other things reading some of the posts in this thread really shows how much of a disgusting crap hole the community and society in general has become.. It seems that one is not allowed to enjoy the game as they get crapped on by others and get called a "paid shill" or "white knight" because heaven forbid they still like the game..

[Lime]

Not to mention the higher level zones were hell without a group due to XP loss on death.

Not many feelings are worse in an MMO then dying to a mob, de-leveling, hearing the depressing fanfare, then having the de-level posted in the public chat to everybody nearby.

you forgot 1 really important thing

people couldnt ninja

a lot of people belive that "ninja" meant stealing in dungeons by pressing need - oh boy they never player mmorpgs before wow - where whenever you were kiling mobs out in the world there was always 2-3 people runing around and desperately trying to click on mobs first because most games back then were first clicked first server - and what was happening when really big mob was dying and 30-50 people were trying to click it before you

really - people have no clue how casual vanilla was back then.

Oh god, ninja'ing bosses out in the world in FFXI, only to have some saltlord try to lure enemies near you to get you killed.

[SirCowdog]

Question is, how many final straws can they continue to place on the proverbial Camel's back before they have another WoD, albeit slower in pace, on their hands..

This is something a lot of people don't get. When someone says they're quitting because of portals, it's not JUST because of portal. That's just the last thing in a long string of things that have angered them.

The problem is that there are too many people who are literally addicted to WoW. Sunk Cost Fallacy comes into tje equation too, but mostly you have enough core subscribers with over a decade of the ingrained habit of logging into WoW.

That isn't going to break easily, and Blizzard knows it. That's also why i brought up the boiled frog theory. As long as Blizzard squeezes people for money slowly, the habit won't break, especially if it's framed in terms of supposedly being good for the game or the players.

Removing portals is one more tiny adjustment. On its own it appears to be "not a big deal". But add it to all the other little time gates and content stretching, or personal loot chnages, restriction of flight, etc. Each one looked at individually seems insignificant, but taken all together and it starts to add up.

If that all sounds like conspiracy theory, then spend a little time studying human psychology. You KNOW blizzard does.

[Jastall]

I see 0 reason for this to happen. It's old content for pete's sake, nobody gives a fuck, why make me fly (read: point in a direction and alt-tab) through Uldum and Tanaris to get to CoT instead of just having a portal? Making current content feel large is fine to a degree, but some of these places are 15 years old now. There's nothing of interest left to see or discover, just let us cruise through it already.

[Paperfox]

This is something a lot of people don't get. When someone says they're quitting because of portals, it's not JUST because of portal. That's just the last thing in a long string of things that have angered them.

The problem is that there are too many people who are literally addicted to WoW. Sunk Cost Fallacy comes into tje equation too, but mostly you have enough core subscribers with over a decade of the ingrained habit of logging into WoW.

That isn't going to break easily, and Blizzard knows it. That's also why i brought up the boiled frog theory. As long as Blizzard squeezes people for money slowly, the habit won't break, especially if it's framed in terms of supposedly being good for the game or the players.

Removing portals is one more tiny adjustment. On its own it appears to be "not a big deal". But add it to all the other little time gates and content stretching, or personal loot chnages, restriction of flight, etc. Each one looked at individually seems insignificant, but taken all together and it starts to add up.

If that all sounds like conspiracy theory, then spend a little time studying human psychology. You KNOW blizzard does.

Blizz: it feels that you are punishing us for simply being your customers.

Do you have so many that you can afford to lose some?

[Playintrafic]

the flavor is all the same. a portal/hearth to where you need to be. take out the portal to org you like, there are still items that get you to org. take out portals to shrattrah there are still items that get you to shattrath. take out portals to old dal, there are still items that take you to old dal. try again.

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yeah they do, what game you playing. they are bottom dps with the top doing 25% more dps. if you see BM hunters tearing it up over the other classes, well then those other classes are being played by shit players.

Tearing it up? No, able to compete with. especially on any movement heavy fight sure. BM Is fine. Simming low doesn't mean jack shit.

[dragnipur]

This is what I mean. Everyone has taken the Dalaran portals for granted. In Cata they removed all the ports to the other cities. Same with Wrath for Shattrath. You had to realize they weren't gonna be there forever. Just ask a mage. It's not hard.. I know I am coming off as defending this. It's mainly because I don't care about it. I am more trying to get people to realize it's not to big of a deal because we have mages.

I will ask you a question then.Why are Blizzard removing the caverns of time,Dalaran crater and Karazhan portals?There isn't a mage portal to there.And afking while flying is not "seeing the world".As i said i don't have a problem with removing a duplicate portals but removing one of a kind?And then Blizzard are confused why the community rages.

When i compare WoWs and GW2's open world Anet did way better job with theirs and it is filled with teleports everywhere.This feature does NOT make the world smaller but more conviniet to move from point A to point B.Blizzard made the open world so tedious.

[Xath]

Lol,what? I don't think you played in Vanilla or TBC, nothing casual about WoW back then!

Compared to other mmos yes there absolutely was.

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Wow was a grind game simple as that, it would take a casual player more than a month to get to max lvl and then months more to get good gear do be able to do something. There was nothing casual about WoW. And it was a different game compared to other games.

No it wasn't ffxi and eq were the primary mmos hell even runescape had more harsh death rules than wow. You don't drop gear you don't lose xp. Boss fights aren't an hour plus in length. For an mmo in the time period it was extremely casual and until wod was continually getting more casual and had the most convenience in terms of travel by far. Legion and BFA are the first times you truly have to no life it to raid at a world level.

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Unless you have evidence to go against it than I take it we only have speculation countering speculation? Meaning if I am wrong or dumb based on speculation than you must be... as well?

Your speculation has zero evidence to back it up. If people were buying that many wow tokens the price would go up due to demand outstripping supply.

[Fjordkeeper]

give an actual reason it's good for the game besides everything blizzard does is right lols

I just did. I said that I agree with Blizzard's statement. -> read it again.
Give me a reason why that isn't an actual reason besides "I don't like your opinion so it's invalid".

Nice strawman btw, did you make it all by yourself?

[Flower Milk]

wouldn't be an annoying grind if you grinded it when it was current and got the items to make current content more convenient. sorry you started late in the game. sucks to be you. sorry you are not good enough to sell runs and get an unlimited amount of gold to purchase some of these cheap items from vendors. funny how you find it annoying to grind in an MMO. what is so "fun" about taking a portal? convenient yes, necessary no. you want convenience to grind mounts or pets but don't want to grind to make grinding easier. hilarious.

This is genuinely the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website.

Let me just invent a time machine and go back and do that.

[SirCowdog]

Adding flying might have been a mistake, but even so, removing it was even more of a mistake once it was firmly established - if fractured the community immensely - then kinda adding it back in every once in a while is even worse because it’s just so wishy washy and lame (not to mention that people who like flying usually aren’t the ones who are super excited to grind out loremaster anyway). It’s like they’re Ted Danson in the good place, trying to appear nice but secretly just fucking with us as much as possible.

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I don’t think it’s nearly that sinister.

Sinister is probably not the right word for it. I'd say "ruthless" or "coldly calculated". Similar to how casinos make profit because they've taken random chance to such a scale that it becomes predictable, so too is Blizzard dealing with customers. They have enough of them that the responses to their decisions can be calculated.

It's not flawless, of course. The internet community is fickle and can sometimes be mishandled or pushed too far, such as with flying in WoD. But for something with less potential impact, like the portal issue, Blizzard knows with a fair amount of exactness what they can get away with.

[Azulitolol]

This is something a lot of people don't get. When someone says they're quitting because of portals, it's not JUST because of portal. That's just the last thing in a long string of things that have angered them.

The problem is that there are too many people who are literally addicted to WoW. Sunk Cost Fallacy comes into tje equation too, but mostly you have enough core subscribers with over a decade of the ingrained habit of logging into WoW.

That isn't going to break easily, and Blizzard knows it. That's also why i brought up the boiled frog theory. As long as Blizzard squeezes people for money slowly, the habit won't break, especially if it's framed in terms of supposedly being good for the game or the players.

Removing portals is one more tiny adjustment. On its own it appears to be "not a big deal". But add it to all the other little time gates and content stretching, or personal loot chnages, restriction of flight, etc. Each one looked at individually seems insignificant, but taken all together and it starts to add up.

If that all sounds like conspiracy theory, then spend a little time studying human psychology. You KNOW blizzard does.

THIS.
At first i was skeptical of this sort of thinking about the game (months ago). But is has rapidly become increasingly obvious.