kiro about rasthakan dead

[eduwneso]

i think the llamas should be the leaders.

blizzard, read this!!!!

[Rhlor]

alpaca racial mount

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By the way, why was killing Rastakhan "going too far" according to Kiro? As far as I recall, Kiro and Rastakhan were never friends, nor where the Vulpera ever allied with the Zandalari. I do not remember seeing any Vulpera civilian in Dazar'alor. Talk about overreacting.

there are merchants vulpera! also in the end we see how Meerah helps to free the city when it is in the hands of Zul

meerah in zuldazar

[sandokan13]

I hope they join the Horde. They are just like Rocket from Guardians of the Galaxy. Just imagine them with a big gun and some goggles! love it!

[Varodoc]

alpaca racial mount

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there are merchants vulpera! also in the end we see how Meerah helps to free the city when it is in the hands of Zul

meerah in zuldazar

In that case it was Meerah (not Kiro) who helped Rastakhan, and not the other way around. I still fail to see:

A) What Rastakhan ever did for the Vulpera, more specifically for Kiro, to the point that he was so loved by the Vulpera:
B) Why Kiro should be so shocked by Rastakhan's death to the point of saying that the Alliance had gone too far.

I wonder if Kiro's opinion would change if he was ever told what Rastakhan tried to do in Cataclysm -- Backing Zul's decision to declare war on everyone.

[Aucald]

In that case it was Meerah (not Kiro) who helped Rastakhan, and not the other way around. I still fail to see:

A) What Rastakhan ever did for the Vulpera, more specifically for Kiro, to the point that he was so loved by the Vulpera:
B) Why Kiro should be so shocked by Rastakhan's death to the point of saying that the Alliance had gone too far.

I wonder if Kiro's opinion would change if he was ever told what Rastakhan tried to do in Cataclysm -- Backing Zul's decision to declare war on everyone.

Rakera along with the Speaker of the Horde was instrumental in taking the fight to Korthek's Faithless Sethrak and worked to free the Vulpera from enslavement to the Faithless. Rakera, as a loyalist to Rastakhan against Zul's coup, would have Kiro and Meerah's allegiance as a direct hero of this campaign, and in that case probably also had some indirect reverence for King Rastakhan. They're there because the Zandalari (specifically Rakera and the Speaker) aided them, and they have a respect for and mourn the passing of Rastakhan due to their sympathy for Rakera. Add to that the Alliance's actions against the Vulpera in Vol'dun (whether or not you find those justified) and you can easily see why and how the Vulpera would lean toward the Horde perspective pretty strongly.

I think if Kiro learned about Rastakhan's actions previously they might have a slight change of opinion, but their appreciation of Rakera and the Speaker would probably still be strong enough that it wouldn't matter overall. After all, none of those actions really effected the Vulpera in any sense.

[Varodoc]

Rakera along with the Speaker of the Horde was instrumental in taking the fight to Korthek's Faithless Sethrak and worked to free the Vulpera from enslavement to the Faithless.

So was the Alliance, since we annihilated the Faithless upon our landfall.

Rakera, as a loyalist to Rastakhan against Zul's coup, would have Kiro and Meerah's allegiance as a direct hero of this campaign, and in that case probably also had some indirect reverence for King Rastakhan. They're there because the Zandalari (specifically Rakera and the Speaker) aided them, and they have a respect for and mourn the passing of Rastakhan due to their sympathy for Rakera.

There is a difference between respecting a king for sending one of their underlings to help them, and loving that king so much that his death is apparently one of the worst war crimes in history.

Add to that the Alliance's actions against the Vulpera in Vol'dun (whether or not you find those justified) and you can easily see why and how the Vulpera would lean toward the Horde perspective pretty strongly.

That is the problem, Kiro doesn't say that the Alliance went too far for their purge of the Vulpera war supplies, Kiro says that the Alliance went too far because they killed Rastakhan. Why, isn't the Alliance attacking his people worst than the Alliance mudering a foreign king who never even directly interacted with the Vulpera?

For 200 years Rastakhan has ruled the Zandalari, and only now did the Zandalari decide to turn their eyes to helping the Vulpera. Certainly Kiro should be reminded of two centuries of inaction?

After all, none of those actions really effected the Vulpera in any sense.

I'd expect the Forsaken to have that kind of attitude. "It didn't happen to me so it's fine". Not the Vulpera. They don't look like such a careless and cold-hearted race.

[Feanoro]

That is the problem, Kiro doesn't say that the Alliance went too far for their purge of the Vulpera war supplies, Kiro says that the Alliance went too far because they killed Rastakhan. Why, isn't the Alliance attacking his people worst than the Alliance mudering a foreign king who never even directly interacted with the Vulpera?

For 200 years Rastakhan has ruled the Zandalari, and only now did the Zandalari decide to turn their eyes to helping the Vulpera. Certainly Kiro should be reminded of two centuries of inaction?

Because all that matters is the Horde, haven't you learned that since Wrath? The Zandalari are being considered for membership, so therefore any harm to them is harm to the Horde, which is a crime worse than, oh say, stabbing the planet with a giant evil sword.

[Aucald]

So was the Alliance, since we annihilated the Faithless upon our landfall.

Except the Alliance had no real relations with the Vulpera in the process - Rakera and the Speaker do, pretty extensively in fact. It's the personal relationship between the two sides that produces the affection referred to.

There is a difference between respecting a king for sending one of their underlings to help them, and loving that king so much that his death is apparently one of the worst war crimes in history.

Except when you add in the preexisting Alliance aggression toward the Vulpera, as part and parcel of the Vol'dun Assault arc.

That is the problem, Kiro doesn't say that the Alliance went too far for their purge of the Vulpera war supplies, Kiro says that the Alliance went too far because they killed Rastakhan. Why, isn't the Alliance attacking his people worst than the Alliance mudering a foreign king who never even directly interacted with the Vulpera?

I think it pretty much goes unsaid. Kiro is there to be part of the mourning of Rastakhan, so it makes sense that he crouches what he says in that context - especially if he has an eye toward securing an affiliation with either the Zandalari or the Horde. You don't tend to come to a funeral and talk about your own problems, that would be exceedingly crass.

For 200 years Rastakhan has ruled the Zandalari, and only now did the Zandalari decide to turn their eyes to helping the Vulpera. Certainly Kiro should be reminded of two centuries of inaction?

What exactly could the Zandalari have done as concerns what happened to Vol'dun as a result of Mythrax's alteration of Vol'dun? Either way, Kiro and the other Vulpera seem to bear them no ill will, which probably means they don't blame them for what happened (rightly or wrongly).

I'd expect the Forsaken to have that kind of attitude. "It didn't happen to me so it's fine". Not the Vulpera. They don't look like such a careless and cold-hearted race.

The Vulpera are nomadic scavengers - they're practical, pragmatic, and probably don't have the time to navel-gaze or philosophize overly. When your existence boils down to just trying to survive in a day-to-day fashion your worldview tends to become quite stoic.

[rowaasr13]

After his daughter was kidnapped and imprisoned by the alliance for the crime of being a troll.

of being WITH a troll.

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Just Zul's splinter-group in actuality.

If he's splinter, why is Talanji with him?

[cparle87]

He gave their military forces shelter on his land and allowed them to conduct wartime operations against the Alliance out of his city under his protection.

And yet when people use that same argument for why Theramore was a valid military target Jaina-lovers scream "no it isn't Theramore was neutral!"

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of being WITH a troll.

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If he's splinter, why is Talanji with him?

So if you leave your home, screw with a bunch of people, get your ass kicked, come home, don't tell anybody what you did, everyone in your house is a valid target to be kidnapped because... they're with you?

[Aucald]

If he's splinter, why is Talanji with him?

By "splinter-group" I mean those Zandalari that accompanied Zul to Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms, and later Pandaria on his various errands of discovery. He accompanies Talan'ji because of his gift of foresight and its relative indispensability (and because Zul more or less invited himself as Talan'ji finds his presence distasteful to begin with). It's a good thing for Talan'ji that he's present as he more or less makes recovery of her possible by the Horde when he both aids in avoiding Alliance detection and had set Stormwind alight to force Jaina to leave when they arrive at the harbor.

[Super Dickmann]

Heck considering Zul's foresight you have to consider that perhaps he WANTED to get caught and bring the Horde to Zandalar for some reason. After all, should he have not foreseen the Alliance attack?

My headcanon remains that he intentionally got caught. He knew he'd survive because the Alliance are dickless and with Talanji out of the way, his conspiracy could continue operating. After all, all he needs to do is run out the clock until Jak'razet frees Mythrax and without Talanji Nazmir has an army even larger than the one that broke through the Blood Gate and almost took Zuldazar. Also, no allied loa.

[cparle87]

The Alliance was still at war with Zandalar. They notice a Zandalari ship on course for Orgrimmar. Why are you surprised they'd board that ship?

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Heck considering Zul's foresight you have to consider that perhaps he WANTED to get caught and bring the Horde to Zandalar for some reason. After all, should he have not foreseen the Alliance attack?

Why were they at war with the Zandalari? Are you taking Zul's stuff? Also it's confirmed in universe they didn't know WHERE the ship was going. They just went 'ooh trolls, we're gonna capture them cause they're evil." Remember the goblin starting area? "Sir, who are they?" "Doesn't matter, we need to capture the Horde target at all costs, no witnesses."

[Maxilian]

That is one of the things that will bother me about future allied races, and really, NPC races as well.

Where were all these jack asses when the world was about to end? Nowhere to be found, and the mass-invasion of Azeroth by the demons will forever seem to have skipped new areas we visit, as if the whole apocalypse never happened.

Well in Legion we do find Zandalari and Kultirans that were trapped by a Sea Giant and use them as part of a fight club, so i guess they were having their own difficulties at the moment.

Note: It is possible, at least in the case of the Zandalar, that they intentionally didn't tell Rastakhan about the Legion (Most likely on Zul's behalf)

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Zul was my biggest disappointment in BfA. Largely because he was amazing in Stormwind, amazing in his quests in Zuldazar and then suddenly at the end of Zuldazar changes from a mastermind to a religious zealot. Doesn't help that his raid encounter was just trash.

To be fair, if he had something planned for the raid, that would have been better.

Note: It doesn't bother me that the end of Zuldazar, even more when you have in mind that he KNEW he was comming back but it made me sad that the raid was his end.

[Super Dickmann]

Zul was my biggest disappointment in BfA. Largely because he was amazing in Stormwind, amazing in his quests in Zuldazar and then suddenly at the end of Zuldazar changes from a mastermind to a religious zealot. Doesn't help that his raid encounter was just trash.

Yeah, the same. It's literally in one scene too and it's so unnecessary. It's so easy to fix it too. Just move his priorities around. Instead of "Worship G'huun and restore the Zandalari Empire!" to "Restore the Zandalari Empire, even if it means worshiping G'huun!". Then you could have him use blood magic as a means to an end up to when we stop his plan to raise Dazar, and it's only when that fails that he decides to release G'huun, on the reasoning that it's better for the empire to go down entirely than have it surrender to the Horde. All you'd need to do is switch the dungeon and Zandalar Forever around and change like two or three lines.

[Super Dickmann]

Well I'd also like the raid encounter changed tbh.

I don't mind the raid encounter too much, mostly because that's not really even Zul, it's just a sockpuppet for G'huun with his face on it. It succeeds at what it intends to be. Now, it's a shit fight and having a clairvoyant as a boss could be used for far more interesting mechanics, but eh.

[rowaasr13]

By "splinter-group" I mean those Zandalari that accompanied Zul to Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms, and later Pandaria on his various errands of discovery. He accompanies Talan'ji because of his gift of foresight and its relative indispensability (and because Zul more or less invited himself as Talan'ji finds his presence distasteful to begin with). It's a good thing for Talan'ji that he's present as he more or less makes recovery of her possible by the Horde when he both aids in avoiding Alliance detection and had set Stormwind alight to force Jaina to leave when they arrive at the harbor.

That's just a Zanadalari whitewashing mental gymnastics. Sorry, he's either "rogue" and gov't says, fuck him, guys kill him or whatever we disavow him OR he's still in line with them and he gets to tour with princesses. There's no rogues that are allowed to be that up. He apparently is not rogue/splinter/or fucking whatever else excuse if he's with Talanji and staying next to Rashkatan.

So here's the answer why it is absolutely natural for Talanji to be captured by Alliance: she's a princess of a enemy nation that sponsored Zul's wars and in company of criminal himself. It would be absolutely natural for Horde to capture them for same reason if not for asspull "I always schliked at Horde since childhood, let's be friends!" story.

[Martymark]

Hope Kiro becomes the Volundai leader of the Horde instead of Nisha so we have a male Horde allied race leader

How dare you! Just because every Allied race but 1 has had a lady leader, and currently Sylvanas, Jaina, Talanji, and Azshara are the main characters!

[Varitok]

"Killing the king of a people who has terrorized both the Alliance and Horde for years is going too far!"

It's almost as if the players forgot about how evil the Zandalari are.

[Arrashi]

"Killing the king of a people who has terrorized both the Alliance and Horde for years is going too far!"

It's almost as if the players forgot about how evil the Zandalari are.

Following your logic we should kill anduin because of cult of damned.