Play a Viable Spec or Don't even bother play Classic...

[Millyraynge]

Vanilla PvE will be so fucking easy for 2019 Players that you can clear fucking MC with 20 people probably Day1. It doesn't matter what class you play, you will even find a Raidgrp as a fucking Shadowpriest!

I remember back in 2005 pretty much nobody knew how stuff like Threat worked. I knew Guys from the Guild that did the World-First Horde Nef kill and some of their Tanks were fucking clueless how it worked and through they need to do as much damage as possible to keep aggro.

Players nowadays know so much more and are way more experienced. Also back in 2005 there was no WOWHead, no YouTube where you could look up Videos, no fucking super advanced Bossaddons or stuff like that.

Raids will be fucking trivial and unless you want to be in a "Worldfirst" Classic Guild there is no fucking reason to play a Rogue/Mage/Warrior just to be able to raid.

People always care about optimal performance, doesn't matter if it's necessary or not. Long live the meta.

Don't estimate the difficulty due to all the limitations classic has. With dungeon gear you won't be able to one shot most of the mc bosses because of them.

[alturic]

Raids were for the top 10-15% most dedicated players, especially at the release of WoW.

Really? I'd say *maybe* it was dependant on server because unlike easy-mode now, you can only join raids from players on your own server, but I don't think a core feature of the game was *ever* designed for such a small part of the population.

[msdos]

I'm just gonna play resto/enhance like I did back in the day. Ele isn't playable until you're in BWL gear and even then, it's very easy to go OOM. There is no life tap or evo or even innnervate for yourself. Ele is best used in content where you can drink, so AV, AB, 5 mans, etc.

Resto is insane in PVE and insane in PVP.

[alturic]

Vanilla PvE will be so fucking easy for 2019 Players that you can clear fucking MC with 20 people probably Day1. It doesn't matter what class you play, you will even find a Raidgrp as a fucking Shadowpriest!

I remember back in 2005 pretty much nobody knew how stuff like Threat worked. I knew Guys from the Guild that did the World-First Horde Nef kill and some of their Tanks were fucking clueless how it worked and through they need to do as much damage as possible to keep aggro.

Players nowadays know so much more and are way more experienced. Also back in 2005 there was no WOWHead, no YouTube where you could look up Videos, no fucking super advanced Bossaddons or stuff like that.

Raids will be fucking trivial and unless you want to be in a "Worldfirst" Classic Guild there is no fucking reason to play a Rogue/Mage/Warrior just to be able to raid.

Exactly, however I can totally see some tryhard guilds go with the absolute optimal raid and just make it a complete joke. Even the harder "gear check" bosses will melt if you min/max fully, there were 5 man dungeon bosses in TBC more comlex than Classic raid bosses.
You could probably do raids with hybrid classes only and be completely fine not optimal, but fine.

I'm curious why people think this? Will people possibly play better now than they did way ~15 years ago? Sure, I guess. I still see and know people who have supposedly played for years but haven't understood things under you are bad. But gear still matters. Unless you're trying to say it's kinda like current-day top-5 guilds able to down content that others need weeks of gear to down, purely because of skill?

Videos of boss fights mean nothing to the majority of players, if you think otherwise, you play with a select few players that are not the majority of players. For fucks sake, when AVR was around that literally told you where to stand, how big of an area an ability was going to hit people *still* couldn't grasp it and this was in their face, in their game view.

[Millyraynge]

I'm curious why people think this? Will people possibly play better now than they did way ~15 years ago? Sure, I guess. I still see and know people who have supposedly played for years but haven't understood things under you are bad. But gear still matters. Unless you're trying to say it's kinda like current-day top-5 guilds able to down content that others need weeks of gear to down, purely because of skill?

Since Icecrown you can literally play a new character with each new content, because any content patch included an item wipe. This is not the case in vanilla and burning crusade, you need to build up your character each tier stage. Vanilla offers a lot of gear checks. You don't need skill to handle boss mechanis, you need skill to utilize your mana pool to not going to be oom in the first 30 secs, while the tank is bombarded by hard hitting boss attacks.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I'm curious why people think this? Will people possibly play better now than they did way ~15 years ago? Sure, I guess. I still see and know people who have supposedly played for years but haven't understood things under you are bad. But gear still matters. Unless you're trying to say it's kinda like current-day top-5 guilds able to down content that others need weeks of gear to down, purely because of skill?

Videos of boss fights mean nothing to the majority of players, if you think otherwise, you play with a select few players that are not the majority of players. For fucks sake, when AVR was around that literally told you where to stand, how big of an area an ability was going to hit people *still* couldn't grasp it and this was in their face, in their game view.

What matters is raid dps, if you were playing with 3 balance druids (who did the same damage as one warrior) or 2 rets (doing the same damage as 1 mage) then you end uo having lower raid dps than possible with the mire optimal dps options. My point is that if you stack raids like people do now then you’d do more raid damage and thus lower the gear requirement, which is why I (and others) are expecting Classic raids to be zerged on day 1.

[Xath]

People did that on fanfiction realms though. Doesnt mean everything will be the same on original vanilla gameplay.

They did it on the exact same patch blizz is using lol if anything some of the tricks of private servers won't work and will lower feral dps due to no front stabbing like you can do in privates.

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Vanilla PvE will be so fucking easy for 2019 Players that you can clear fucking MC with 20 people probably Day1. It doesn't matter what class you play, you will even find a Raidgrp as a fucking Shadowpriest!

I remember back in 2005 pretty much nobody knew how stuff like Threat worked. I knew Guys from the Guild that did the World-First Horde Nef kill and some of their Tanks were fucking clueless how it worked and through they need to do as much damage as possible to keep aggro.

Players nowadays know so much more and are way more experienced. Also back in 2005 there was no WOWHead, no YouTube where you could look up Videos, no fucking super advanced Bossaddons or stuff like that.

Raids will be fucking trivial and unless you want to be in a "Worldfirst" Classic Guild there is no fucking reason to play a Rogue/Mage/Warrior just to be able to raid.

Yeah cause it's not like resist gear is what stopped people nope it was obviously the piss easy mechanics. Not having to gear out tanks in general or the necessity of resist gear nah it was just really hard to not stand in bad /s

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It's mad how you've made my raid contain 8 ret paladins all of a sudden. Anyone would think you've done so because your points are completely irrelevant.
Honestly your knowledge of vanilla raiding is laughable and then when you apply that limited knowledge to Classic you just look foolish.

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Rogues and Feral will roll on my similar items though the feral tank will be targeting +armour items where possible. As a fury warrior in vanilla I had often had leather equipped because it was an upgrade or even BiS, I certainly wasn't equipping plate that didn't have offensive stats.

The only one with limited knowledge here is you. You claimed there was no significant difference between hybrid specs and specs designed for damage. You claimed it wouldn't be dragging down the raid to play your special spec. Given those parameters I can make your raid comp whatever the hell I want since you aren't losing significant dps so I replaced all your fury warriors and rogue with rets and ferals.

[Grimreaper]

Giggles druid tanks not unless are gm or their best friend are you druid tanking in raids. You are crushable and a mana sponge.

Funny how our healers always prefered healing our druid tank on certain BWL/AQ/Naxx bosses. Why? More steady and reliable damage income. That they take slightly more total damage is irrelevant, they're far more predictable to heal.

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Ret didn’t really become a raiding spec until Wrath, even in TBC it lacked a lot of tools to become good in raids. You’d see them, obviously, but they weren’t dps monsters.

Well, we did have a couple of Ret's who did above 2k dps on Brutallus in Sunwell (before the pre-patch obviously).

[Satelliteyears0o]

I cant wait for everyone to flip out over the itemization and inconsistent stat hodge-podge of vanilla.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Everyone excited to play Retribution in vanilla should have themselves checked at a mental institute.

Yeah there's so much vanilla derangement syndrome going on.

I mean look, some people know what they are getting into and they genuinely want to play this type of game. More power to them! Let people enjoy things. I've no doubt there will be tens of thousands of them.

But there are also an enormous number of people who have absolutely no clue what this is going to be like, even people who played it 15 years ago and should know better. They think they are going to have fun playing a dumpster spec and instead they'll quit at level 12.

[Tony Slam]

Vanilla PvE will be so fucking easy for 2019 Players that you can clear fucking MC with 20 people probably Day1. It doesn't matter what class you play, you will even find a Raidgrp as a fucking Shadowpriest!

I remember back in 2005 pretty much nobody knew how stuff like Threat worked. I knew Guys from the Guild that did the World-First Horde Nef kill and some of their Tanks were fucking clueless how it worked and through they need to do as much damage as possible to keep aggro.

Players nowadays know so much more and are way more experienced. Also back in 2005 there was no WOWHead, no YouTube where you could look up Videos, no fucking super advanced Bossaddons or stuff like that.

Raids will be fucking trivial and unless you want to be in a "Worldfirst" Classic Guild there is no fucking reason to play a Rogue/Mage/Warrior just to be able to raid.

The mechanics weren't ever the hard part of raiding. Itemization/time investment. Classes were weak as fuck.
I agree that the vast majority of guilds aren't going to give a shit if a Spriest and a Boomkin take up spot 39 and 40.

[alturic]

Since Icecrown you can literally play a new character with each new content, because any content patch included an item wipe. This is not the case in vanilla and burning crusade, you need to build up your character each tier stage. Vanilla offers a lot of gear checks. You don't need skill to handle boss mechanis, you need skill to utilize your mana pool to not going to be oom in the first 30 secs, while the tank is bombarded by hard hitting boss attacks.

Unsure how this answers my question of why people think that just because it's old content, old mechanics it's somehow going to be faceroll? I admit I haven't and don't touch old content, ever, but unless I'm thinking big-picture, but I don't see how people are suddenly going to avoid Leroy'ing, or getting feared into whelps on Ony, etc is not going to happen? Again, will there be less people doing it? Hopefully, but I don't think it's going to be faceroll like people are claiming.

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What matters is raid dps, if you were playing with 3 balance druids (who did the same damage as one warrior) or 2 rets (doing the same damage as 1 mage) then you end uo having lower raid dps than possible with the mire optimal dps options. My point is that if you stack raids like people do now then you’d do more raid damage and thus lower the gear requirement, which is why I (and others) are expecting Classic raids to be zerged on day 1.

I'm unsure how current top-guilds (the old top-guilds knew these things back in the day as well) will somehow just faceroll the content? The absolute only way I could see this happening is if gear meant nothing back in the day, and it was strictly knowledge that was required. That of course is false, but yea.

My memory *is* a bit fuzzy on raiding back then, but I don't think Method will be clearing Rag within the first 2 resets. Will it take the same amount of time as each boss took back in the day? Of course not, the mechanics are known now, there's no learning the mechanics, but you still need the gear.

Edit: Actually, I might be seeing what people mean. You don't need to learn the mechanics as they are all well-known now. So top-guilds will indeed clear content the first or second reset purely because it's a matter of having the numbers, and nothing more now. Ok, I agree now. I know there's still going to be players wiping over and over.

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The mechanics weren't ever the hard part of raiding. Itemization/time investment. Classes were weak as fuck.
I agree that the vast majority of guilds aren't going to give a shit if a Spriest and a Boomkin take up spot 39 and 40.

Most mechanics weren't, sure. Whelps? Ha.

Hell, I remember having to cheese Aran in Kara by standing outside of his room because people couldn't handle it.

[Chaelexi]

Yeah and you can tank as a bear if you farm for very specfic gear that has +armor on it. You're welcome to do the grind. Will be lame if everyone is warriors/rogues/priests

I will make sure to markup every Warden's staff to for very large profits.

[nToxik]

The mechanics weren't ever the hard part of raiding. Itemization/time investment. Classes were weak as fuck.
I agree that the vast majority of guilds aren't going to give a shit if a Spriest and a Boomkin take up spot 39 and 40.

They will if they overwrite one of the 8 (I believe it was 8) debuffs required to be kept up on the boss.

[Tony Slam]

They will if they overwrite one of the 8 (I believe it was 8) debuffs required to be kept up on the boss.

they'll just do what the warlocks did and not dot up the boss.

[Aqua]

I'll play whatever I goddamn want. Always have, always will.

[Whistl3r]

some kid talking shit.

You're 12 right? I Literally claimed nothing of the sort. The only thing i claimed was that I could put a raid together with 40 good players and have 5 of them playing whatever spec they wanted and still kill everything. A good Ret paladin is better than a shit rogue.

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I'll play whatever I goddamn want. Always have, always will.

And if you're good at it, I'd raid with you all night long

[collax]

I will make sure to markup every Warden's staff to for very large profits.

Be sure to sell it before dire maul then. Because there is a mace with almost the same stats that drop there. Warden staff is still slightly better but few druids will want to spend hundreds on a really minor upgrade once they can get the mace.

[Kladdkaka]

I hope Classic gets to the point where it gets some smaller balance changes after people have experienced how shitty some classes were. Hunters are basically useless, Paladins are buff bots until super geared healers, Shamans are just useless, etc.

[collax]

I hope Classic gets to the point where it gets some smaller balance changes after people have experienced how shitty some classes were. Hunters are basically useless, Paladins are buff bots until super geared healers, Shamans are just useless, etc.

Why are the people asking for class balance always saying bullshit like that ?