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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    I'm pretty convinced you have no clue just how toxic your defending of Sylvanas can be.
    Ironic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    Baine and Saurfang are not helping the Alliance.
    Intended or not, their actions still have the side-effect of benefiting the Alliance. The fact that neither of them seem to care about this, because honor apparently trumps everything else, even their own people, is problematic behavior for two racial leaders.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Ironic.



    Intended or not, their actions still have the side-effect of benefiting the Alliance. The fact that neither of them seem to care about this, because honor apparently trumps everything else, even their own people, is problematic behavior for two racial leaders.
    And who are their people?Walking corpses,who want to destroy the living?

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    And who are their people?Walking corpses,who want to destroy the living?
    The tauren in Baine's case. You know, the people who he exiled for self-defense and who's invader he tipped off. Or who he didn't say a word about in favor of whining about Saurfang when they got gassed and raised. Or the guys who took over his city and murdered his dad, who he spared, unlike the dark rangers and named Forsaken guarding Derek. Baine is simply indefensible. I really recommend you switch to shilling for Saurfang or something because at least he had a previous good record to ruin. Baine has been crap since inception and always in the same way.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Ironic.



    Intended or not, their actions still have the side-effect of benefiting the Alliance. The fact that neither of them seem to care about this, because honor apparently trumps everything else, even their own people, is problematic behavior for two racial leaders.
    The forsaken causing a war is killing more tauren than the peace they would have gotten? Is everything black and white to you?
    Chronomancer Club

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    The forsaken causing a war is killing more tauren than the peace they would have gotten? Is everything black and white to you?
    murder malfurion/jaina would case more horde deaths?
    rotfl?
    it was/is the entire plan to assassinate the head of the enemy to make the thing faster and easier

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    Eh,it's pointless to discuss something with an individual like you,who has only one truth and who is ready to go miles to prove it. Keep twisting every single event in your own favor - that doesn't prove your right.
    Except I twisted nothing.

    Did Saurfang spare Malfurion? Yes, he did, as per the in-game events of War of Thorns as well as the events of A Good War.
    Did Saurfang deliberately not kill Anduin in hopes he stops Sylvanas for him? Yes, he did, as per Lost Honor cinematic.
    Did Baine kill Horde soldiers in order to free the brother of an Alliance leader? Yes, he did, as per the next part of Horde war campaign.
    Did Baine steal Horde ship to deliver Derek directly to Jaina? Yes, he did, as per the very cinematic that started this thread.

    So, humor me here: do you have any evidence to the contrary of the above or are you just desperately trying to find a way to get out of this argument with anything resembling an argument in your favor?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    And who are their people?Walking corpses,who want to destroy the living?
    Saurfang completely bailed on the orcs because of his own concept of honor. He is their current leader (or was). One could argue that leaving your people without any real leadership, in the hands of Sylvanas, isn't exactly a smart idea.

    Baine has on multiple occasions valued his concept of honor and his relationship with the Alliance over the tauren. Like Saurfang, his actions have now resulted in the tauren being left without leadership aswell.

    Their actions are incredibly shortsighted and done without much thought towards the people they're supposed to be leading.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    There's nothing to disprove,I already stated what I see and how I see. I don't care if somebody,who pretends to sound ultimately smart and educated on forum and tries to call everyone, who disagrees with his views, idiots,without saying it out loud,is actually worth my time to get my reply. There are a few indivuals - demagogues - on this forum,who are the ultimate Horde advocates and who will do anything,to try to prove that a pile of shit is a chocolate. Well,you know,the fact,that somebody will say so even a hundred times won't prove it right. I'm not going to spend my time to prove one simple thing - all the events he described can be viewed in few ways. Unfortunately,blind fanatics will see only what they want to see.
    Do tell how saying that Baine and Saurfang doing the right thing - which is "how you see it" - is not mutually exclusive with them helping the Alliance (which they explicitly did) is somehow demagoguery. I'm intrigued.

    And Saurfang saving Malfurion can be seen in multiple ways? No shit. I can't recall denying that. What I did deny was your brilliant idea that he didn't help the Alliance by doing so. Are you actually capable of explaining how Saurfang saving an important Alliance member does not constitute him helping the Alliance in any way the event can be seen? Because, again, your "it's the right thing to do" narrative ain't that, as it's not mutually exclusive with him helping the Alliance and as such you need to look for something else. Or are you going to just continue flinging shit instead, hoping something sticks?

    Also, can you point out exactly where have I tried to call anyone who disagreed with me an idiot? Can't recall that either, especially in this conversation. If you felt like an idiot when I had to point out to you the basic fact that "doing the right thing" is not mutually exclusive with helping the Alliance, that's a you problem and I'm not responsible for your feelings.

    Finally, the bit about chocolate is nothing more than a weak-ass straw-man of the Alliance posters on this forum who, when they run out of arguments (so almost immediately) try to pretend Horde posters are saying the Horde is morally flawless in order to dismiss them. Sorry mate, but that ain't actually happening in the real world.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    And who are their people?Walking corpses,who want to destroy the living?
    Given how both Saurfang and Baine are racial leaders, who are their people indeed? Such a mystery!


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Saurfang completely bailed on the orcs because of his own concept of honor. He is their current leader (or was). One could argue that leaving your people without any real leadership, in the hands of Sylvanas, isn't exactly a smart idea.
    Especially since he believes Sylvanas is going to lead them down a dark path. So Saurfang, at least as far as his believes go, literally abandoned the Orcs to get corrupted by a wrong leader. Which not only is him acting in a way detrimental (again, at least as far as his own believes are concerned) to the Orcs, but also a change from his past behavior. He threatened Garrosh with appropriate action just in case he leads the Orcs a dark path.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Their actions are incredibly shortsighted and done without much thought towards the people they're supposed to be leading.
    But hey, at least they are not helping the Alliance. Because saving Alliance leaders totally does not constitute helping the Alliance. It is known and makes all the sense in the world.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-03-14 at 12:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    The forsaken causing a war is killing more tauren than the peace they would have gotten?
    What peace? there's not going to be any peace between the factions as long as Sylvanas is leading the Horde. If Baine has a problem with how his warchief runs things, his first priority should be working towards removing her from power. There are ways to do this without directly aiding the enemy.

  10. #410
    Well, from Sylvanas PoV, everyone defying her leadership should be executed, obv. From someone caring for the planet as a whole, Sylavans should be stopped and trialed for her crimes. Simple as that.

    Baine is not working against the Horde but against Sylvanas.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    What peace? there's not going to be any peace between the factions as long as Sylvanas is leading the Horde. If Baine has a problem with how his warchief runs things, his first priority should be working towards removing her from power. There are ways to do this without directly aiding the enemy.
    It was pretty obvious that the alliance wanted peace after the events of WoD & Legion, everyone is just tired. The story is just stupid at this point in order to manufacture some conflict that wasnt there, because "faction war sells" or something like that (hint: it didnt)
    Chronomancer Club

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    It was pretty obvious that the alliance wanted peace after the events of WoD & Legion, everyone is just tired. The story is just stupid at this point in order to manufacture some conflict that wasnt there, because "faction war sells" or something like that (hint: it didnt)
    They wanted peace so much they attacked the Horde over bullshit during the apocalypse, with Anduin doing nothing to punish those guilty in order to lower the tension between the factions. And the tensions were so high Anduin was outright mentioning peace treaties, which indicate conflict. The factions also needed a ceasefire (which also indicates conflict) even for something as removed from fighting as a peaceful meeting of civilians on neutral ground.

    The Alliance wants peace in name only, where they can still attack the Horde whenever they have a whim like that with complete impunity, because Anduin is ultimately a hypocrite. And that's not any kind of peace that has value to the Horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, from Sylvanas PoV, everyone defying her leadership should be executed, obv. From someone caring for the planet as a whole, Sylavans should be stopped and trialed for her crimes. Simple as that.

    Baine is not working against the Horde but against Sylvanas.
    Yes he is working against the Horde. Stop being in denial.

  14. #414
    If you see the Horde as Sylvanas, then yes. But I see the Horde as something much more bigger and better than Sylvanas.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    If you see the Horde as Sylvanas, then yes. But I see the Horde as something much more bigger and better than Sylvanas.
    The Horde is centered around its Warchief by design. On top of that, most of the Horde follows Sylvanas. Baine killed some of those Horde members. Ergo, he's acting against the Horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    If you see the Horde as Sylvanas, then yes. But I see the Horde as something much more bigger and better than Sylvanas.
    I'm going to repeat again but w/e :
    He just sabotaged one of the most important mission which could have changed the tide of the war.
    I don't know if you are aware, but currently the Horde is fighting the Alliance. So YES helping the Alliance means working against the Horde.

  17. #417
    So what ? As I said, from Sylvanas pov he should be executed. From mine, he should not.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    So what ? As I said, from Sylvanas pov he should be executed. From mine, he should not.
    So what? The part where your argument about POVs about his executions was a separate argument from Baine not working against the Horde. The latter was contested, not the former. So repeating the former here isn't really a valid counterpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    So what ? As I said, from Sylvanas pov he should be executed. From mine, he should not.
    Are you trolling?
    You asked me how he is working against the Horde, i simply answered you.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-03-14 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  20. #420
    He is working against the Horde as Vol'jin did in his own time against Garrosh. No big deal about it. Sylvanas is evil thus the Horde that is following her is evil as well, and the Alliance are posing as the good guy (which they were not always). So no big deal in betraying an evil leader.

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