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  1. #421
    Its not like that bush you guys call Teldrassil served any purpose anyway...Baine is gonna bet chopped and barbecued for his treason as he should.
    The Man in Black: “They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.”
    Jacob: “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    He is working against the Horde as Vol'jin did in his own time against Garrosh. No big deal about it. Sylvanas is evil thus the Horde that is following her is evil as well, and the Alliance are posing as the good guy (which they were not always). So no big deal in betraying an evil leader.
    He is betraying his own people who are currently DYING against the alliance. The least he can do is to tell his soldier to stop fighting. He's a sneaky coward hoping that the Alliance will destroy the Horde.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    It was pretty obvious that the alliance wanted peace after the events of WoD & Legion, everyone is just tired. The story is just stupid at this point in order to manufacture some conflict that wasnt there, because "faction war sells" or something like that (hint: it didnt)
    I'd say @Mehrunes already pointed out the flaws in this, but aside from that, what relevance does this have on Baine aiding the Alliance after the war has already broken out?
    Last edited by Captain Douchebag; 2019-03-14 at 01:53 PM.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    He is working against the Horde as Vol'jin did in his own time against Garrosh. No big deal about it. Sylvanas is evil thus the Horde that is following her is evil as well, and the Alliance are posing as the good guy (which they were not always). So no big deal in betraying an evil leader.
    But you just said he's not working against the Horde. Seems your story is ever-shifting.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #425
    Earth mother>Horde. The man has his priorities straight.

  6. #426
    Not rly. He is working against YOUR Horde as you see the Horde as Sylvanas's while I see the Horde as Thrall/Vol'jin (which knew what was Honor where Sylvanas does not).

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not rly. He is working against YOUR Horde as you see the Horde as Sylvanas's while I see the Horde as Thrall/Vol'jin (which knew what was Honor where Sylvanas does not).
    So now you dropped the "he isn't working against the Horde" to "The current Horde isn't the Horde".
    Okay so he could help the Alliance to annhilate the Taurens/Orcs/Troll (which he is doing by saving the life of the OP mage who kills hundreads of Horde soldiers every day), it could be fine because it's the Horde of Sylvanas, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Slam View Post
    Earth mother>Horde. The man has his priorities straight.
    More like saving pretty blonde lady > Earth mother, considering that he didn't move an inch during the burning teldrassil and the complete destruction of the nature in Kalimdor.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Slam View Post
    Earth mother>Horde. The man has his priorities straight.
    Except Earth Mother endorses the war and blesses the Tauren fighting the Alliance in 8.1.5.


    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not rly. He is working against YOUR Horde as you see the Horde as Sylvanas's while I see the Horde as Thrall/Vol'jin (which knew what was Honor where Sylvanas does not).
    It's the same Horde, Sylvanas is a direct successor of Vol'jin. Baine (or you) not liking the direction she decided on for the Horde doesn't change that. The Thrall Horde isn't some golden standard the Horde has to obey forever. Each Warchief can shift from it as they please. Everyone who can't accept it and follow the new direction is literally working against the Horde. And Thrall's honor was an idiotic mixture of self-flagellation (he deliberately set his capital in a barren desert to make the Orcs atone for their past) and appeasing the Alliance (he ignored the multiple Alliance incursions into Horde territory during Vanilla).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #429
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    Who is earth mother anyways? Elune?

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  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    Yeah because only people with sylvanas avatars think the story in this game is garbage and baine is acting like a buffoon.
    You know, now that I think about it, Baine is acting like a buffoon. Taken out of context, what Baine did was honorable. But, the alliance just did something dishonorable by sneaking in and committing regicide. Right after that, Baine feels guilty about doing something equally dastardly to someone who murdered the leader of his supposed new ally? He should really have tried to choke Jaina out right there on the boat.
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  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Except Earth Mother endorses the war and blesses the Tauren fighting the Alliance in 8.1.5.
    I dont think rezing the dead as minions and blighting the earth is what Tauren consider war.

  12. #432
    It's laughable how the leaders and other important NPC treat Baine as the right one. Due to his stupid whim to assist the ENEMY we had to kill our ALLIES on the forsaken ship. And this stupid cow and others say something about honor? These spineless shits know nothing of loyalty and discipline during war.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Slam View Post
    I dont think rezing the dead as minions and blighting the earth is what Tauren consider war.
    What Tauren calls things is irrelevant to the point that Baine is explicitly acting in direction opposite to the Earth Mother, making him a heretic and your previous post wrong. You're moving the goalposts. Also, the notion that the Tauren care deeply about the Blight has no actual evidence to stand on. The only time a Tauren commented on Blight he was using it against the Naga. And the Tauren in question was a Cenarion Circle Druid no less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  14. #434
    Earth Mother = Azeroth btw.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    It really wasnt, its his opinion.
    And opinions can be wrong, just because someone "believes" in something does not make that opinion correct. They can, in fact be invalid.
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  16. #436
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Those arguments were made at a time when we still no context for why it happened and with the assumption that there was no legitimate cause for horde to feel aggrieved at the Alliance.
    -OMEGASNIP-
    All that being said, obviously I would had far more respect for both factions had they agreed to sit around the table and talk after the end of Legion instead of immediately going into escalation. But I do think that the notion that Horde is primarily to blame for how things turned out, or that it was just "Sylvanas getting pissy" is laughably naive.
    And I think you're blind if you think murdering thousands of civilians and destroying both a significant culture icon and a capital city was necessary for the Horde's survival. Sylvanas was on the path of 'we capture the tree, we hold the people there prisoner, and we blockade any attempts at rescue until the Alliance is willing to negotiate'. Then a single elf stood up to her and she changed her mind. Does that really sound like the entire Horde agreed with her, or just that she suddenly changed her mind and they were forced to go along with it?

    And Sylvanas' reasons, legitimate or not, are still evil. Yes, the Alliance didn't know what she was doing in Stormheim, but we the players do. She was trying to enslave an entire race of people, against their will, to be her personal 1-ups and Unit Spawners. This is not some ambiguous 'for the greater good' thing, this is wrong. Had Genn killed her here, he would've done the entire world a favor.

    I still believe that if the Horde handed over Sylvanas and Nathanos to the Alliance, then the Alliance would be more than willing ceasefire and broker a peace. The issue that the Alliance has right now isn't with the Horde in general, it's with Sylvanas. If she truly believed she was doing what was needed to protect the Horde, she would turn herself over without a fight.

    As to your argument that Teldrassil was complicit, I'm sure that means that thousands of civilians deserved to burn to death for said accessory to Azerite and harboring a war criminal. /s

    TL;DR: Everything was fine until Sylvanas took the lead.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    And opinions can be wrong, just because someone "believes" in something does not make that opinion correct. They can, in fact be invalid.
    Its not like his was particularly wrong, one can say it was a right one, with the one doing the "fixing" being in denial.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    If it posts like a Sylvanas fanboy, acts like a Sylvanas fanboy and even smells like a Sylvanas fanboy, it's clearly gay for Anduin, right?
    I keep waiting for the day when you'll make make a post that'd make sense from start to finish. Apparently that day is not today. Since you need things spelled out, your remarks about how people are Sylvanas' fanboys aren't what I argued against in my previous reply. What I argued against is the things you then project on people you deem Sylvanas fanboys, like the notion that they make everything she does look like the gospel of god. That part, i.e. the part I actually addressed, is your fantasy, nothing more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    I'm pretty convinced you have no clue just how toxic your defending of Sylvanas can be, that and when it gets pointed out you just go in to offense mode and start spouting things like MUH STRAW MAHN then place words in peoples mouths.

    Are you a parody account?
    What words have I placed in your mouth? I even bolded the part of your post that I was addressing in particular to make it clear what I'm talking about. And the fact that you have no defense for that, nor an example that would prove me wrong, and instead you decided to do... whatever this post is supposed to be speaks volumes.

    And sorry, but you spouting nonsense about how Sylvanas fans supposedly "go to every possible length to make everything she does seem like the gospel of god" IS a straw-man. That's just a fact. You yourself have resorted to "so you're saying Sylvanas is flawless" or some variety of that multiple times when you ran out of arguments even though the person you were replying to made no such claims. That is textboox straw-man. So perhaps your issue here is that you are ignorant of what straw-man is and instead of checking it out you got offended. Which is your problem, not mine.

    And please. I can back up my defense of Sylvanas with sources and clearly explain the logic of what I am saying. And I'm making lore arguments on lore forum. You on the other hand mostly make jabs at Sylvanas fans these days. Sometimes even before any of them actually posts in a given thread. That is actually toxic. And I am more than convinced you have no clue how about that. Even though you're constantly derailing threads into a discussion of your personal boogeyman of muh Slovakian fanbois. Or Sylvanas in general.

    And even on the off-chance you make a lore argument (more than likely peddling abject headcanon) you still abandon your argument at first sign of criticism (because deep inside you probably know how weak your arguments are; my favorite is where you proved yourself wrong with your own sources about the Barrens) and instead resort to going back to flinging shit at people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Douchebag View Post
    Ironic.
    Ironic is an understatement.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-03-15 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Received Infraction
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    What Tauren calls things is irrelevant to the point that Baine is explicitly acting in direction opposite to the Earth Mother, making him a heretic and your previous post wrong. You're moving the goalposts. Also, the notion that the Tauren care deeply about the Blight has no actual evidence to stand on. The only time a Tauren commented on Blight he was using it against the Naga. And the Tauren in question was a Cenarion Circle Druid no less.
    lol ok dude. your right. The Tauren love blight and want to salt the fucking earth lmao.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    She acts like war is inevitable after legion is gone while world is bleeding out when she could have negotiated a treaty, gotyen bodies over time, and poisoned or framed alliance leaders over time
    The factions were already at war in everything but in name after Legion. Anduin was mentioning peace treaties, the factions needed a ceasefire to make the Gathering happen. So on and so forth. And the war was inevitable. Anduin showed to the world that his subordinates can attack highest level Horde officials with complete impunity, without him even lifting a finger. With such limp-wristed leadership from him, how long would it take before Genn or some other Alliance idiot got bold again? A treaty with Alliance behaving like that is worthless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Instead she's running the horde and frankly the horde ought to be taking issue with whay she's doing outside of just Saurfang, Eitrigg and Baine
    Eitrigg only disagreed with her imprisoning Baine. Other than that he handed the Mag'har over to Sylvanas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    That's why most people who defend sylvanas do so. Because the war was inevitable when Anduin refused to punish Genn. Also Sylvanas has not really done anything allies didn't do in the works wars. The last two total wars we've been part of (outside of necromancy but that's only because it can't be done in reality.)
    And he not only did not punish Genn, but he also brought him to the Gathering to parade him and his unpunished ass in front of Sylvanas during a meeting that was supposed to facilitate some positive vibes between the factions. Anduin was effectively rubbing salt in Sylvanas' wounds there, only to act surprised the Horde wasn't willing to take his shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Those arguments were made at a time when we still no context for why it happened and with the assumption that there was no legitimate cause for horde to feel aggrieved at the Alliance.
    Not to mention Blizzard deliberately misled people about it by saying Teldrassil is not what it seems and that there is some twist there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    All that being said, obviously I would had far more respect for both factions had they agreed to sit around the table and talk after the end of Legion instead of immediately going into escalation. But I do think that the notion that Horde is primarily to blame for how things turned out, or that it was just "Sylvanas getting pissy" is laughably naive.
    Especially since the Alliance had a perfect opportunity to start the peace process with the Gathering. Instead, Anduin in his near-infinite negligence not only failed to vet the priests brought by Faol and let a pretender to Sylvanas' throne slip into the meeting grounds, but in the letter proposing the Gathering he explicitly told her that she shouldn't mistake it as an offer of peace. Not only did he completely miss the opportunity for peace talks, he could have conveyed his brilliant decision in a more diplomatic manner. And then he brought Genn to the Gathering and paraded his warmongering ass in front of Sylvanas, as if he was short on advisors.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Slam View Post
    lol ok dude. your right. The Tauren love blight and want to salt the fucking earth lmao.
    Do you have actual counter-evidence to what I said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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