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  1. #221
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Chasing BiS has been replaced by grinding Azerite. As many many others have said, I can’t name a single piece of gear my character is currently wearing and it’s a HUGE problem. He brings up a really good point: why would a heroic raider continue to farm Dazaralor after killing Jaina once? His heroic gear will be replaced in 3 months by normal mode Azshara gear.
    First two points are objectively incorrect, there is a very clear bis to gun for and there are certainly items you very well know.

    The other point is quite literally how WoW is working for many many years all the way from WoTLK and even before really. Why is new raid tier obsoleting previous tier suddenly is a such a problem now? Where have you been back in 2008 with this?

  2. #222
    I am Murloc! DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Considering your inability to refute the points in the op outside of attacking a youtuber, I'd have to assume you're not one of them.
    I'd say the treadmill is stronger than ever, or rather, the treadmill changes. There's barely anything that you currently wear that will remain once the next tier (read: season) starts.

    And one of Preach's points is that gearing up after clearing your desired difficulty is completely redundant; because the power gap between tiers is so huge, and the number of sources for high-end gear is so high, that farming and reclearing for the 5 extra ilvls, the extra socket, and so forth, is just not worth it.

    There is no unique bonus on gear from a specific raid like you had with tier sets, meaning that strong bonuses could last longer and be worth playing for no longer exist. People raided Nighthold even when Antorus was out, because it still had some good loot in it. Now? Why would you raid Uldir? All the trinkets there have silly effects that aren't worth the effort, while that juicy On Use for X stat trinket comes from a Dungeon, or a lucky WQ Titanforge.

    The treadmill used to be consistent, now it's just a massive rush at the start of the season and a dip later on. I'm only 2/9 Mythic, the raid has been out for only a few months and I'm already stacked in full Mythic level gear. The gear drops from the raid barely count as an incentive or an upgrade anymore.

    And this all stems form Blizzard's desire to avoid things like the Arcanocrystal, but it only created another extreme: One where gear doesn't last long enough and is obtained so easily that it's not interesting anymore.
    Last edited by DrMcNinja; 2019-03-14 at 09:55 PM.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Can you clarify how/why did gear made you want to continue playing (after reaching your patch goal) in older days?
    I dont see how.

    The only thing i can think about is PvP.
    Having the best gear opened up a whole new world of ass kicking in random BG's.
    It was just progression. Let me step into the next tier more prepared for progress. Now I am ready for progress next tier already. No reason to keep pushing after the next to bosses on mythic die. Used to have reasons to continue. Either I could get more powerful. Or my friends could get more powerful. Now its just 3-4 months of "who will get an item level higher this week on the slot machine" because we are geared completely out already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    TBF Youtube does not make it hard to blame the creator. In fact Youtube has fostered a business model for these people of "play for clicks." And in 2017 the hot thing was shock videos (See: the infamous Logan Paul Suicide Forest video), then in 2018 it was Rage Baiting, now in 2019 it looks like the hot thing is going to be fueling conspiracies.
    Right.. I suppose if I gave a single fuck about the business of YouTube you might have a point. I just tend to watch what I feel like it. Sometimes I get what I am looking for and sometimes I get got. Boohoo right?

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks01 View Post
    How many alt accounts do you have Preach?
    He's gotta fuel the controversies somehow!

    "BfA supporters", these people are as political about a PG13 game as others are about child labour, sex trafficking or partisan politics.
    Newsflash to the hatorade chuggers: There's always been people who enjoyed the game, and those who didn't. Yes, ALWAYS.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Could it be that we just disagree with your highness? Get off your high horse.

    I agree with everything he said. the game had RPG elements to them. You remember them? Because WoW was designed after games like EQ1 and AD&D boardgames, it had actual RPG mechanics that made your character YOUR OWN.
    Did it? I do not remember any RPG element from classic.

    Levelling skills is not RPG. Using a sword rather than a mace is not RPG.
    Last edited by Sansnom; 2019-03-15 at 12:06 AM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    He's gotta fuel the controversies somehow!

    "BfA supporters", these people are as political about a PG13 game as others are about child labour, sex trafficking or partisan politics.
    Newsflash to the hatorade chuggers: There's always been people who enjoyed the game, and those who didn't. Yes, ALWAYS.
    Current WoW has more in common with D3 than it's roots in MMORPG's like Vanilla WoW or EQ1. That's fine, there's obviously a big segment of players out there who enjoy that seasonal gameplay over character development over a slow time.

    There's no need for us to attack one another, there's room for both current and classic to co-exist. They appeal to two different wow gamers

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by harruin View Post
    The obsolescence has never been this fast though. We're talking old gear being fully replaced within a week with moderate effort. Fully replaced in 3 weeks with hardly any effort. Then slamming into a wall and only getting minor upgrades after that.
    Yeah I replaced my Uldir gear relatively quickly, I wouldn't say it was low effort though. Tbh it felt roughly the same as it has most tiers, potentially even a bit slower as there wasn't any split raiding done this time round.

    That was clearing BoD Norm + Heroic week 1, hitting 1800 in 2's week 1 for the 405+ chest and spamming 10+s as much as possible.

    Still very much chasing gear still using a suboptimal helm and heroic shoulders not seeing the 2 key azerite pieces in raid. Also needing cloak, ring & belt being the most key items. 412 or 413 atm, so still a tonne of room for gear improvement doing most of what I have available to me weekly to continue progressing.

    If someone's already done and over 415 then grats for getting so lucky I guess.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    What was the point of playing anymore during say, WOTLK...?

    Because I 100% remember literally "being done" for the level I played at and the gear I could obtain. Most weeks during ICC outside of raiding, was spent farming herbs of Argent Tournament, not gearing. If your only reason for playing is to get gear, you've been pretty limited since Classic ended. And during Classic you had the RNG gods shitting in your face as a hurdle.
    Yeah. I wasn't 2 bosses from the end of progress and knowing that either myself or my whole raid team was going to get next to nothing out of the raid zone for the next 5 months when a zone was less than two months old (alright, Naxx.. sure.. you got me there but not with the rest). If you want to use ICC as the example.. sure.. end of the expansion year long raid.. right.. I stopped raiding that one after about 6 months and 4-5 of my buddies got the legendary axe because they were kind enough to do some Uldar with me so all the healers could get the legendary mace. You see? Reasons...

    Now..

    Fucking nothing. Geared out to the max 2 months in. Everyone in the team. Unsub until 8.2 with everyone else in the guild until new content comes out after the last 2 mythic bosses die. Then you can just do all the time gated horse shit over a weekend too. I want to play the game more.. but it just dies after about a month if you can clear mythic fairly quickly.

    Sure I could herb. Or mine. But why.. I have like 20 million gold from the give away in the previous last 2 expansions. I get it.. gearing might not be the ONLY problem.. there are more.. but its certainly is one.

    In classic sure.. I might not be getting the item but someone is.. shit man.. I see mythic gear getting DEed on the reggie.. already.. because no one needs that shit. That is a problem. Then in 8.2 it will all be hot garbage in a week or two from shit like world quests.
    Last edited by Low Hanging Fruit; 2019-03-14 at 10:00 PM.

  9. #229
    The Video has some valid points, but other tend to stretch the truth a bit far.

    Firstly, I'm not a Mythic raider, never have been. Back in my day we didn't even have Mythic Raids... but at that level, there is always an incentive to farm the current Tier for gear, even if we ignore WF/TF drops, going into the next Tier with BiS gear and multiple sets to swap out (AoE Vs ST) is always a bonus. Yes, you might replace many of those pieces quite quickly, but you also might not.

    However, as a Casual raider (like I am these days, focusing on Heroic), there is less incentive to gear up during Farm and we see a steady drop off in attendance after getting AOTC, even more so after getting the Meta Mount. This is because you can casually gear in M+ on your terms (no set raid nights), WF's, World Boss and then Catchup gear in the next Tier. Not to mention, the average guild takes a few weeks even months to clear Heroic so there's plenty of gear to be had during progression.

    This has created a "Seasons" effect in WOW. I've seen it my guild and hear about it from others. Players re-sub, get AOTC, then un-sub till the next Tier.
    It's also made players focus more on Raider.IO (which I despise) because it's rather easier to get a decent Ilvl these days.
    Lastly, the point about the same items being BiS for the whole game is, at the moment, very Valid. Farming the same M+ dungeons hoping for the same items at the "new" ilvl is tedious at best!

  10. #230
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    It was just progression. Let me step into the next tier more prepared for progress. Now I am ready for progress next tier already. No reason to keep pushing after the next to bosses on mythic die. Used to have reasons to continue. Either I could get more powerful. Or my friends could get more powerful. Now its just 3-4 months of "who will get an item level higher this week on the slot machine" because we are geared completely out already.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Right.. I suppose if I gave a single fuck about the business of YouTube you might have a point. I just tend to watch what I feel like it. Sometimes I get what I am looking for and sometimes I get got. Boohoo right?
    So how is the first part of what you said is different now? Gear soft reset on tier launch is happening for many years, nothing changed. If you want to say you were preparing for next tier previously despite the very same reset happening back then, then why it's suddenly not same thing now?

    It's literally same, new tier comes and with it new gear that obsoleted old gear and you still can be carried a tiny bit by old gear but that's about it. I simply don't understand why you think it's so different now?

    The only thing you could say that now we get torrential rains of new gear, which is true, but then what - you want to nerf gear drops amount? I don't understand.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Did it? I do not remember any RPG element from classic.

    Levelling skills is not RPG. Using a sword rather than a mace is RPG.
    Weapon skills. Leveling Skills. Talent Trees. Choosing to use a lower rank of a spell to conserve mana (like in AD&D). Having to move from point A to point B, B to C, C to D, the world feeling alive with it's own social structure where server reputation mattered, etc.

    Need i continue? there's room for both current and classic WoW. Classic WoW is more of the AD&D, slower paced higher reward, EQ MMORPG crowd. Current WoW is more for the insta gratification, seasonal, ARPG crowd with inspiration from Diablo 3.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So how is the first part of what you said is different now? Gear soft reset on tier launch is happening for many years, nothing changed. If you want to say you were preparing for next tier previously despite the very same reset happening back then, then why it's suddenly not same thing now?

    It's literally same, new tier comes and with it new gear that obsoleted old gear and you still can be carried a tiny bit by old gear but that's about it. I simply don't understand why you think it's so different now?

    The only thing you could say that now we get torrential rains of new gear, which is true, but then what - you want to nerf gear drops amount? I don't understand.
    It has happened yes. But I did not replace Legion tier sets on the first day from WQ. So you are going to have to try harder than that because we had to try harder than that back then to get upgrades. I hardly call it soft anymore.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Current WoW has more in common with D3 than it's roots in MMORPG's like Vanilla WoW or EQ1. That's fine, there's obviously a big segment of players out there who enjoy that seasonal gameplay over character development over a slow time.

    There's no need for us to attack one another, there's room for both current and classic to co-exist. They appeal to two different wow gamers
    They literally don't, you just want to say that to feel better about yourself, which is cool... sad, but cool. If this game was more D3 than WoW, I for sure wouldn't be playing. I'm the same WoW player now that I was when I started (and when I enjoyed Classic on private servers).
    Of course they can co-exist, but Classic fans have time and again proven themselves to be quite petulant.

    WoW is still an MMORPG for a fact, your subjective feels don't apply, doesn't matter how much self-absorbed tryhards want to pretend that only what they enjoy constitutes fact.
    WoW was also made fun of for being so casual and unlike MMORPGs of the time back then, yet here we are.

    In short: Get over yourselves, you're not special for liking the old whilst others enjoy the new. Plenty enjoy both as well with Classic players still being around too, not that they somehow hold some form of status, but as an example of still being attracted to this game.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-03-14 at 10:07 PM.

  14. #234
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    It has happened yes. But I did not replace Legion tier sets on the first day from WQ. So you are going to have to try harder than that because we had to try harder than that back then to get upgrades. I hardly call it soft anymore.
    I did not replace my Mythic Uldir gear with WQ gear??? I did replace some of it with new heroic raid gear, that's for sure, but definitely not WQ.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    They literally don't, you just want to say that to feel better about yourself, which is cool... sad, but cool. If this game was more D3 than WoW, I for sure wouldn't be playing. I'm the same WoW player now that I was when I started (and when I enjoyed Classic on private servers).
    Of course they can co-exist, but Classic fans have time and again proven themselves to be quite petulant.

    In short: Get over yourselves, you're not special for liking the old whilst others enjoy the new. Plenty enjoy both as well.
    I think you are projecting a bit. I've been very open minded about it without insulting you or anyone else.

    There's room for both to co-exist in peace. We can be fans of both.

    and yes, current wow DOES have more in common with D3 than vanilla WoW. Talent tree's? Ripped directly from D3. M+ is also basically just high end Rifts. The push for seasonal content over content meant to last long term. Personal loot. etc. There are quite a few ARPG elements rampant in today's WoW. Not all bad, but there's no need to deny they are there.

    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    As many many others have said, I can’t name a single piece of gear my character is currently wearing and it’s a HUGE problem.

    Another great point which Preach didn’t address in this video (but has in the past): Titanforging also killed the DPS rankings scene which used to be a fun part of farm.
    Idk about you but I know most casters will definitely be able to name Sliver from opulence

    Can definitely still have fun pushing DPS rankings on farm for fun, take this from a Rank 1 healer DPS.



    This is clearly just a meme

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I think you are projecting a bit. I've been very open minded about it without insulting you or anyone else.

    There's room for both to co-exist in peace. We can be fans of both.

    and yes, current wow DOES have more in common with D3 than vanilla WoW. Talent tree's? Ripped directly from D3. M+ is also basically just high end Rifts. The push for seasonal content over content meant to last long term. Personal loot. etc. There are quite a few ARPG elements rampant in today's WoW. Not all bad, but there's no need to deny they are there.

    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.
    Classic fans are literally in every thread telling the rest how only Classic is enjoyable whilst anything coming after it is shit tier. There's been an actual warning going out in this very thread about it.

    Open your eyes, it started after a certain server shut down. BfA being hailed as the greatest Xpack on the other hand, THAT is rare. Enjoying aspects and not enjoying other aspects =/= hailing it as great. Of course, to hatorade chuggers that might be difficult to tell.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I did not replace my Mythic Uldir gear with WQ gear??? I did replace some of it with new heroic raid gear, that's for sure, but definitely not WQ.
    Also he's talking about tier so I guess it's equivalent is Azerite (?)

    Which I guess could be possible for some due to the 5th ring, however it was barely an upgrade if you did get good traits and almost immediately replaced in BoD / using residuum.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Classic fans are literally in every thread telling the rest how only Classic is enjoyable whilst anything coming after it is shit tier. There's been an actual warning going out in this very thread about it.

    Open your eyes, it started after a certain server shut down. BfA being hailed as the greatest Xpack on the other hand, THAT is rare.
    I've seen some petulant classic fans, but tbh that's just how gaming is for some reason today... i don't get it. I thought you meant in this thread, and in this thread the classic fans are basically just saying "you enjoy what you do and ill enjoy classic" and keep getting just railroaded without even fighting back.

    I enjoy classic more than current WoW, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna bash those who enjoy current. some of my good friends have no interest in classic. That's fine.

    We can all co-exist

    Ignore those loud fanboys who bash current wow players and act like classic is flawless. It is FAR from flawless, i just prefer it, and that's fine. I hope you have a good day

  20. #240
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.
    First of all keep your Classic flagellants in check. I swear there are several individuals who jump on every thread trying to shove their classic crap down our throats and often by literally making up ridiculous shit like class mechanics in Vanilla being better than BfA, which is really a ridiculous notion.

    I find it surprising to see classic aficionados being so shocked to get a pushback at that. People literally waltz in uninvited and start pushing Vanilla as some shady salesmen. People rightfully tell them to go sell their stories somewhere else.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2019-03-14 at 10:16 PM.

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