Captain Marvel [2019]

[Endus]

There is no context that makes a racist and sexist statement not racist and sexist the only reason you believe there is is because at some level you agree with her statement and you don't want to think of yourself as racist and or sexist. Same advice as to the other dude go actual read the book not the garbage disney turned it into. At it's heart Wrinkle much like Super Heroes in general is about the message of unity and harmony and that anyone can do whatever they set their mind to regardless of race and/or gender, not due to race/gender

The statement wasn't racist or sexist. The only thing that can make a statement racist or sexist is context. The exact same words, in a different context, not necessarily bigoted.

The easiest and most obvious example is to take a statement like "X are all shit". If the context is someone using that because they think all X really are shit, that's bigoted. If I, however, quote that person, saying "that person was a bigot because their saying 'X are all shit' was motivated by hatred", that's not bigoted. Even though I said exactly the same words.

Because context is all that matters. It's what gives language meaning.

[Xath]

"We got too many black people around here". Racist.

"We got too many black people around here. I've worked in prisons 30 years and it's clear to me our justice system sends people of color to prison far more frequently than white people for the same crimes." Not racist.

Do you need more examples?

Great except that isn't what she said at all. Good try though. In fact if we include the rest of her statement it becomes even more racist and suggests that one of the great early science fiction stories written for everyone has been turned into a racist sexist piece.

[Endus]

Saying we don't need x is racist/sexist. Here let's play a fun little game people like you hate.

“I don’t need a 30-year-old black women to tell me what didn’t work about Iron Man,” Larson said. “It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to teenage boys and young men.”

This would be a very obviously sexist and racist statement. It would very obviously be not okay.

This isn't a "game". This is you pretending that context doesn't matter, which is so patently false it should be considered automatically satirical.

[Xath]

The statement wasn't racist or sexist. The only thing that can make a statement racist or sexist is context. The exact same words, in a different context, not necessarily bigoted.

The easiest and most obvious example is to take a statement like "X are all shit". If the context is someone using that because they think all X really are shit, that's bigoted. If I, however, quote that person, saying "that person was a bigot because their saying 'X are all shit' was motivated by hatred", that's not bigoted. Even though I said exactly the same words.

Because context is all that matters. It's what gives language meaning.

So give the context that supposedly makes this not racist/sexist. The only context is the claim that one of the first inclusive pieces of science fiction written by a women has been turned into an exclusive one that isn't for men. That isn't better if anything it's worse.

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This isn't a "game". This is you pretending that context doesn't matter, which is so patently false it should be considered automatically satirical.

Word replacement is absolutely a game you play as kids and if I can replace only subjects not change the meaning of a sentence and make it one that is obviously racist it's probably racist/sexist to start with.

[Endus]

So give the context that supposedly makes this not racist/sexist. The only context is the claim that one of the first inclusive pieces of science fiction written by a women has been turned into an exclusive one that isn't for men. That isn't better if anything it's worse.

There's clearly nothing I could say that would convince you. You've decided on your position, and you don't care about the facts which contradict it. I'm done wasting my time; I've made my points to the audience.

Word replacement is absolutely a game you play as kids and if I can replace only subjects not change the meaning of a sentence and make it one that is obviously racist it's probably racist/sexist to start with.

Really? Let's play this (stupid) game, then.

Take this statement;
"I hate spiders, they're yucky". Not racist or sexist, is it?
Now, let's change just one word.
"I hate niggers, they're yucky."
Suddenly, without some kind of exculpatory context (like the embedding within this post as an example of an atrociously racist thing), it's an apparently racist statement.

So by your "argument", hating spiders means you hate black people. You really think this is a valid argument?

[kasuke06]

When you have to cut out the followup comments because they explain exactly how it isn't racist, it's clear you're not contributing in good faith, but are pushing propaganda to support an agenda.

You mean that retraction she was made to put up?

Would you believe Trump in that situation? saying something tremendously racist and sexist and then a limp-wristed attempt to save face?

[Endus]

You mean that retraction she was made to put up?

No, I mean the rest of the actual speech she made in that moment. And hell, doing a search for "brie larson retraction" doesn't turn up anything, nor does adding "wrinkle in time" help. So I have to assume you're just making that up wholesale.

[Xath]

The difference being that making a movie for the majority demographic of the nation, one with a history of oppression towards minorities and women, isn't the same as making one to empower the aforementioned oppressed minorities. Again, get your head out of your ass.

It is get your head out of your ass. Racism and sexism are racism and sexism whether or not you call them beneficial. Asians are good at math is racist despite not being a negative.

[kasuke06]

No, I mean the rest of the actual speech she made in that moment. And hell, doing a search for "brie larson retraction" doesn't turn up anything, nor does adding "wrinkle in time" help. So I have to assume you're just making that up wholesale.

"What I’m looking for is to bring more seats up to the table. No one is getting their chair taken away," explained Larson. "There’s not less seats at the table, there’s just more seats at the table.”

There's your retraction.

"About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed it appeared to be overwhelmingly white male," Larson responded. "So, I spoke to Dr Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive. After speaking with you, the film critic Valerie Complex and a few other women of colour, it sounded like across the board they weren’t getting the same opportunities as others. When I talked to the facilities that weren’t providing it, they all had different excuses."

there's what it was retracting. Wonder who's paying for all those extra seats?

I know I know, "you can't be racist to white people!" deflection inbound. In which case I'll just have to direct you to a dictionary but your ability to locate information on your own appears to be lacking.

Fun fact: This was all provided by a single google search that took .6 seconds to complete and yielded 5.42 million results.

Best part is her speech the where the infamous "I don't need a 40 year old white dude..." comments were preceded by

"“Am I saying I hate white dudes?” asked the Oscar-winning “Room” actress, a question that she’d repeat twice more during her speech. She answered with a sneer, “No, I’m not … [but if] you make the movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie and review your movie.”

Lamenting a plight and attempting to help right it is perfectly okay, but to be such an asshole about it means you more than deserve to be taken down a peg.

[Dextroden]

Endus, do you agree that black people shouldn't review movies not made for them just like white people shouldn't review movies not made for them?

[Endus]

"What I’m looking for is to bring more seats up to the table. No one is getting their chair taken away," explained Larson. "There’s not less seats at the table, there’s just more seats at the table.”

There's your retraction.

Not a "retraction" at all.

Endus, do you agree that black people shouldn't review movies not made for them just like white people shouldn't review movies not made for them?

Really not interested in obvious, lazy bait.

[Dextroden]

Not a "retraction" at all.




Really not interested in obvious, lazy bait.

It's not bait. It's the logical conclusion of saying there are movies made for certain races of people and only their reviews should matter. Or is that too hard for you to understand, captain racism?

[tyrlaan]

JFC can we stop turning this thread into a shitshow of a conversation about people that got their fee-fees hurt because someone commented about their privilege?

Start a Gen-OT thread if you need to rail about this. Mods have warned MANY times in thread to not go there yet here we are. Again.

[Endus]

JFC can we stop turning this thread into a shitshow of a conversation about people that got their fee-fees hurt because someone commented about their privilege?

Start a Gen-OT thread if you need to rail about this. Mods have warned MANY times in thread to not go there yet here we are. Again.

Fair. I apologize for letting myself get dragged this far into this brigading bullshit.

[Dextroden]

JFC can we stop turning this thread into a shitshow of a conversation about people that got their fee-fees hurt because someone commented about their privilege?

Start a Gen-OT thread if you need to rail about this. Mods have warned MANY times in thread to not go there yet here we are. Again.

So can minorities just shut up about representation since we shouldn't care about their fee fees either?

[Xath]

Fair. I apologize for letting myself get dragged this far into this brigading bullshit.

Not brigading bullshit I replied to an incorrectly made claim you took offense to me fixing thst incorrect claim and then you and another person proceeded to claim overy sexism and racism wasn't overt sexism and racism if there is any brigading here it's by the people who can't accept an orange is an orange and keep claiming it's really a pear.

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Literally not by the definition of racism. That's a stereotype, not racism. Fucking idiot.

Literally is racism it's prejudice based on race. You seem to be unable to type without being insulting so simply refer to your own words when describing your own intellectual faculties or lack thereof.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There is no context that makes a racist and sexist statement not racist and sexist.

I don’t quite get this as context is key to every thing.

If I for example say many black people in America had no culture after slavery as it was stripped from them by slavery and they couldn’t merge into the normal white culture because of there skin colour so they had to make there own from scratch. That’s not the same as just saying black people have no culture.

The context of the statement is what makes something racist or sexist if you strip that out that it’s twisting words to mean something they were never ment to.

[Dextroden]

I don’t quite get this as context is key to every thing.

If I for example say many black people in America had no culture after slavery as it was stripped from them by slavery and they couldn’t merge into the normal white culture because of there skin colour so they had to make there own from scratch. That’s not the same as just saying black people have no culture.

The context of the statement is what makes something racist or sexist if you strip that out that it’s twisting words to mean something they were never ment to.

You're right. Just like it's perfectly fine to not want black people to watch or review a movie because it isn't made for them.

There's no context in which it's fine to tell people they have no business reviewing a movie because they are X skin color or gender. Or there is and equality ensures everybody has movies they have no business talking about.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You're right. Just like it's perfectly fine to not want black people to watch or review a movie because it isn't made for them.

There's no context in which it's fine to tell people they have no business reviewing a movie because they are X skin color or gender. Or there is and equality ensures everybody has movies they have no business talking about.

I would say there is such a context but as said on the last page we’re getting off topic and the mods have mentioned it more then a few times so I’ll have to stick to marvel related things ya form here on.

Make an off topic thread and I’d be happy to talk about it though.

[Jotaux]

I would say there is such a context but as said on the last page we’re getting off topic and the mods have mentioned it more then a few times so I’ll have to stick to marvel related things ya form here on.

Make an off topic thread and I’d be happy to talk about it though.

I mean this is the Captain Marvel thread, where the lead actor, while promoting the movie made a racist and sexist comment about the movie. I don't know how much more on topic we can be.