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  1. #321
    Well, Blizzard has raised hand in favor of more RNG-based, less deterministic loot where you are showered with loot but 99% of them are junk.

    So might say that gearing is easier than ever, but at the same time also harder than ever because your drops become meaningless due to the presence of titanforging and other RNG mechanism.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  2. #322
    Does Preach do mythic raiding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Probably because the thread will have two basic camps.

    Camp 1: Give me your dick you are right about everything.
    Camp 2: Just in case you were confused, I am a giant dick and will try to get e-fame here and now.
    So dick either way?
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Titanforge bruh. Not hard to get a x3 proc. Math is hard.
    So does this magically only apply to one side of the equation? I mean, you know previous tier mythic can forge right? Derp!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    And it was time and time again proven to be wrong. Yes ofc you will havr players loving current gearing but we talking about bittom 5% of casual audience. Players what log in for 30 minutes and quit and actualy dont even like playing mmo game. Than ofc you have 1% of hardcore players what also enjoys this type of system. Buuuut rest of core playerbase. This is what happens when you cutter game to lowest common dominator. You end up allienating your core audience. How can anyone like this system? Have you guys even played past 2 or 3 months? Game is absolute ghost town. Go and try play on 2k vannila server. Game feels far more populated and alive than any of high populated realm on retail.
    Proof. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    I have a 120 of every class and I enjoy it. I raid heroic on one toon and do M+ on another, but the bulk of my play time I spend on alts. Because I find it fun to fish for forges and try different playstyles and builds of other classes across all roles. I do immensely enjoy the tryhards crying about loot nowadays though. It's almost as entertaining as the game.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So just to be clear, one more time, you found weapon skills "immersive" because you have you right click a mob once, and then afk while it auto attacked for an hour, while you watched tv in the other room. This is immersion to you?

    So far from reality it is obvious how thick those roses tinted glasses are.
    Firstly people were not afking. Secondly yes. It makes sense when you pick up new type of weapon you wont be hitting mobs just like you woulnt kill rabbit when you shoot for the first time with bow. Immersion for you to know is created when you play in beliavable world which works and use same incoviniences what we have in real life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niil945 View Post
    So does this magically only apply to one side of the equation? I mean, you know previous tier mythic can forge right? Derp!

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    Proof. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    I have a 120 of every class and I enjoy it. I raid heroic on one toon and do M+ on another, but the bulk of my play time I spend on alts. Because I find it fun to fish for forges and try different playstyles and builds of other classes across all roles. I do immensely enjoy the tryhards crying about loot nowadays though. It's almost as entertaining as the game.
    You are minority. Sure enyoj and have fun but we talking about here about ll those millions of players what actualy quit game.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    You are minority. Sure enyoj and have fun but we talking about here about ll those millions of players what actualy quit game.
    Citation needed. On both the numbers that quit and why they quit. Thanks!

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    And it was time and time again proven to be wrong. Yes ofc you will havr players loving current gearing but we talking about bittom 5% of casual audience. Players what log in for 30 minutes and quit and actualy dont even like playing mmo game. Than ofc you have 1% of hardcore players what also enjoys this type of system. Buuuut rest of core playerbase. This is what happens when you cutter game to lowest common dominator. You end up allienating your core audience. How can anyone like this system? Have you guys even played past 2 or 3 months? Game is absolute ghost town. Go and try play on 2k vannila server. Game feels far more populated and alive than any of high populated realm on retail.
    by whom ?

    5 youtubers/twitch streamers which do the same shit as all other streamers meaning are as controversial as fuck to make $$$$$$$$$ ?

    or by mythic raiders who are realising nobody ever cared about their gear or progress they had?

    because for sure you dont see here people who are solely doin normal/hc and low level mythic + keys complaining about gear.

    the only ones complaing about current system are mythic raiders nobody else.

    and few people who no longer play game and will speak any shit possible to justify themselves getting burned from raiding and loosing fun in playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    You are minority. Sure enyoj and have fun but we talking about here about ll those millions of players what actualy quit game.
    gotta show proofs of this

    because so far blizzard is making more $$$$ then ever in wow history .

    show us the proof of this doom and gloom.

    because no whining on mmochamp is not proof.

  7. #327
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    I didn't bother to read this since I am currently tired at the moment.. but that thumbnail for the video.. I am dying of laughter!

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Does Preach do mythic raiding?
    on bench - they recruited him to get nice exposition on twitch and he fucked them over , this raid by choosing $$$$ from streaning world first progress

    so he has plenty of time to do youtube videos now

    but hey $$$ is $$$

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    on bench - they recruited him to get nice exposition on twitch and he fucked them over , this raid by choosing $$$$ from streaning world first progress

    so he has plenty of time to do youtube videos now

    but hey $$$ is $$$
    What a childish view.. he is a youtuber/streamer and he got a chance to broaden his job oportunities into casting esport type like events. This is a business opportunity that an adult can't pass up just to kill a boss 2 weeks earlier. Since they are neither in the world first race nor does this (other fat) brit stream his progression raiding in the first place, this also didn't fuck up anyone other than his private raiding progression.

    As for the contents of the video and topic, some parts are obviously true to some extend. I'm not sure I can agree with all the conclusions though. Some of it still reeks of the ivory tower mentality of someone who puts more than 20 hours a week into a game, which is hardly a viable standard. That doesn't mean that the loot in WoW doesn't have issues, oh damn it does and the inflationary iLvl is definitely among it. I'm personally also a proponent of 5 iLvl differences between difficulties per raid tier and I also agree with the overall goal of making gear longer usefull, but I also don't think that giving no gear to casuals is the right solution here either.

  10. #330
    So mythic+ dungeons , and tf/wf are killing off mythic raiding?

    we might eventually just have LFR/Normal/Heroic?


    Good.

    And not a moment too soon. An end to e-peening in video games.
    "Independence forever!" --- President John Adams
    "America is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --- President John Quincy Adams
    "Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by niil945 View Post
    So does this magically only apply to one side of the equation? I mean, you know previous tier mythic can forge right? Derp!
    Mythic can’t titanforge nearly as much. 2x forge then it caps for mythic for some reason.

  12. #332
    If they really want to keep the concept of titanforging, why not move titanforging to a different spot in the process? Make a consumable item that "titanforges" a piece of gear. Let all gear drop without titanforging.

    This way, Blizzard can control how quickly people get titanforging (set a higher price or make the items to craft it rarer) AND players can choose their best pieces to upgrade with the titanforging.

    You could even give back conquest/valor points and have the titanforge items require them (or make that one path to acquire).

    Or maybe the boss drop seals, instead of rolling an extra time for loot, you roll it to titanforge your drop. When titanforge doesn't proc, it gives you some consolation affix like +speed, and increases your odds of titanforging your next coin.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Designing to keep people signed up for 12 months by lowering the slope of ilevel progression would not be well received.
    I don't think that's a good idea either, at least not when your entire game is built around raiding. In the early days you could get away with it because raiding was just a part of it. Catch-up mechanics are necessary so that people can at least gear up fairly quick and do normal mode raiding. Normal mode gear was 355 iLvl in Uldir but when the new "season" hit they started handing out 385 gear like it was candy, which was the mythic iLvl in Uldir.

    In no world does it make sense to have everyone catch up completely (or even surpass with the new azerite rings and free 400 gear) to those that spent months doing the hardest possible content. I'm not a mythic raider myself but I can say that the work I did on my character in heroic during Uldir felt like it was all for nothing when I logged in and found out that they were now handing out better gear than I was wearing for almost no effort at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrickNasty View Post
    Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Preach, he makes a valid point. Higher end gear is entirely too easy to get. Long gone are the days when you see a Prot warrior or a Prot Paladin with the Bulwark of Azzinoth. I think it’s that feeling of stature, even if it at some points became a bit of a “member” measuring contest that people yearn for. Something, anything, to strive for.
    I think all people are asking for is for the effort to match the reward. Do difficult and/or time consuming content and get good gear, do easy and/or fast content and get bad gear. I believe that players at all difficulty levels feel like this, they just want to feel like they're working towards something worthwhile instead of just going in blind and reacting to whatever happens to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    i am interested in what EXACTLY you enjoyed about the weapon skill? When you swapped weapons, did you enjoy standing still auto attacking the same mob until it was max level? Did you feel that added to your game experience?
    It added value to your character. Every second spent progressing even if it was something braindead like weapon skill made your character feel more valuable to you because of the time and care you spent essentially checking off boxes.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    If they really want to keep the concept of titanforging, why not move titanforging to a different spot in the process? Make a consumable item that "titanforges" a piece of gear. Let all gear drop without titanforging.

    This way, Blizzard can control how quickly people get titanforging (set a higher price or make the items to craft it rarer) AND players can choose their best pieces to upgrade with the titanforging.

    You could even give back conquest/valor points and have the titanforge items require them (or make that one path to acquire).

    Or maybe the boss drop seals, instead of rolling an extra time for loot, you roll it to titanforge your drop. When titanforge doesn't proc, it gives you some consolation affix like +speed, and increases your odds of titanforging your next coin.
    This is a good suggestion that addresses the current lack of player agency and I think it’s a fair compromise.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    on bench - they recruited him to get nice exposition on twitch and he fucked them over , this raid by choosing $$$$ from streaning world first progress

    so he has plenty of time to do youtube videos now

    but hey $$$ is $$$
    haha dam.
    but yea...cash be cash.
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    on bench - they recruited him to get nice exposition on twitch and he fucked them over , this raid by choosing $$$$ from streaning world first progress

    so he has plenty of time to do youtube videos now

    but hey $$$ is $$$
    Shaming a guy for making money over playing a video game.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    If you listen to him speak this is not a problem he himself has since he really doesn't care that much about loot. If anything he benefits from gear being meaningless since it'll allow him to do the thing he enjoys (progress raiding) and skip the things he doesn't enjoy (farm raiding).

    Preach is very unique in that way. Very few people actually play the game for just the challenge and don't really care about the character he plays and its progression. This is a problem the rest of the playerbase has, he's on the outside looking in on this one.
    This post and few others mentioning Asmongold remind me of the argument preach and Asmongold had over gear and essentially their views on the game.

    Neither could really comprehend the other's pov. Yet people think they're the same (I'll admit though in that argument I fell on team preach)

  18. #338
    I think most of saw this disaster of a "trying to please everybody" system coming right at the end of WOTLK. Cataclysm was still more or less good enough in my opinion, which might be subjective, but since then it's just been a massive downward spiral.
    As far as i'm concerned it all boils down to the company being in absolute desperation for money (subs ). How do you MAKE people to re-sub? Give them a reason to play. How do you give player a reason to play?
    1. Keep adding new/relevant content to the game, however in order to know what playerbase wants - you obviously have to listen to their feedback in real time, instead of looking at your "data".
    2. Intentionally break the system that's been working for years, completely ignore your "morals" and go down low enough to implement massive rng to the aspect, which, for most people is the primary motivation to play, called - character progression, so now players feel like they're forced to keep playing in order to to have a chance of progressing, key word - "Chance". I think it's more than obvious which route they chose to follow, they removed reforging from the game so it's l i t e r a l l y impossible to get maximum out of your character now, because secondary stats for some classes are just as important if not more important than the primary one and then we have this disgusting and absolutely shameless system called titanforging, which... i won't keep beating the dead horse, but that's an actual cancer of the game. I don't they're dumb enough to actually not understand why it's cancer, they're just ignoring everybody when it comes to titanforging, because it keeps the meat on the table ( FORCES some people to keep playing ), shame on you - company that we onced loved and admired
    Last edited by Chillside; 2019-03-15 at 07:06 AM.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Mythic can’t titanforge nearly as much. 2x forge then it caps for mythic for some reason.
    And? That doesn't change the point that Mythic gear isn't replaced by LFR gear of the next tier. Can it be? Sure, if you get an extremely lucky forge. Is the blanket statement I was commenting on true? No, no it's not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    1. Keep adding new/relevant content to the game, however in order to know what playerbase wants - you obviously have to listen to their feedback in real time, instead of looking at your "data".
    They do. They just don't listen to the very loud minority on the forums who think they represent the majority.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Shaming a guy for making money over playing a video game.
    not shaming . stating facts.

    in order for people to realise that streamers dont criticise BfA solely because they care about game - but because this attractcs viewers and gives them $$$$

    and people follow them blindly like sheeps because they belive that thaey are doing it because they "Care"

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