Captain Marvel [2019]

[eschatological]

I've been avoiding this thread a bit and only responding to reports while I was waiting to see the movie. But as has been said a dozen times in the past 2 weeks in this thread - posting about politics in this subforum is not allowed. Debates about racism and/or sexism, whitewashing, genderbending in Hollywood is a GenOT topic, and is off-topic for this forum. Violation of this rule will result in infractions. This subforum is for discussing media for what it is. Unless the topic of the film itself is political/a social issue (like the Neverland documentary), political/social agenda talk is not allowed here.

[Wyattbw09]

Are people still banging on about this? Like the movie, hate the movie, who cares. The movie obviously has done well so Captain Marvel won’t be leaving the MCU anytime soon. Heck even the best part of the new trailer was the Thor and Captain Marvel bit. If you’re hating on this movie for political reason just let it go and either talk about the movie itself or move on.

[Alexeht]

Then again, you have a stupid NPC as your avatar, I should not expect to have much of an intellectual conversation with that starting point..

Yeah, because understanding NPC meme require some intellectual power ...

[draynay]

I've been avoiding this thread a bit and only responding to reports while I was waiting to see the movie.

Dude, you gotta hurry it up if you're gonna mod this forum! Beat them spoilers!

[Somewhatconcerned]

Can someone give me a spoiler-free TLDR why right wingers are again offended about this one?

[Endus]

Also, it's been so long since we actually discussed the film, did anyone else notice that four Skrulls landed on Earth, we see two die (one in the car crash, one by Yon-Rogg's hand), and then there's Talos, the guy who convinces Carol to help them?

Where's the fourth goddamned Skrull?

[THE Bigzoman]

So.....

Has anyone talked about the moive?

I mean, it's okay. It's at the bottom of Marvel movies for me, but Marvel movies are generally good to me so it being at the bottom doesn't make it terrible.

[tyrlaan]

Also, it's been so long since we actually discussed the film, did anyone else notice that four Skrulls landed on Earth, we see two die (one in the car crash, one by Yon-Rogg's hand), and then there's Talos, the guy who convinces Carol to help them?

Where's the fourth goddamned Skrull?

Indeed...

So.....

Has anyone talked about the moive?

I mean, it's okay. It's at the bottom of Marvel movies for me, but Marvel movies are generally good to me so it being at the bottom doesn't make it terrible.

Yeah we eked out a few pages of actual movie discussion for a bit.

Personally I'd rank it a bit higher than you did, but definitely middle of the pack. Another thread was asking for people to list their top 10 and I did not include it.

[Zaktar]

Went to go see it after all, and well sadly felt like the film was as underwhelming as the trailers made it seem. Was hoping before it started to have low expectations and therefore be pleasantly be surprised, but alas. Was bored throughout.

The main issue was that main character was always untouchable (not in a superheroic way, in an personal way), always in control of whatever situation she was in. There was this running theme of "control your emotions" but if she lacked emotional control I really wasn't seeing it; if anything she was an emotionally flat character, barely expressing feelings apart from a couple of significant moments, and even then barely knocked off balance by them. Strong characters aren't untouchable, they are deeply touched but nevertheless persevere.

There is a moment from the trailers where little Captain Marvel stands up at different points in her life, and it tries to play out in a significant moment in the film but the problem is: had she ever had a problem getting back up before this? I understand the turn which happened right then, but it fell completely flat because she went from being powerful and effectively untouchable to being more powerful and literally untouchable. Okay? Great? Now she can save the day while taking no risks, I'm so excited. I get that the Dumbledore arc was that he was supposed to be holding her back but... he was doing an absolutely terrible job of it, at no point did I get the sense that she was under some kind of spell, she was just inhibited by a chip which she finally decided to break at the narrative-appropriate moment.

The trappings of an arc surrounded the character, but they didn't actually connect so she just kind of glided through the movie. Her friend and her arc, and the other family at the end of the movie were the only things to really hook into apart from Samuel L Jackson's charm which was unfortunately muted by his new residence in the uncanny valley.

Oh well.

[Endus]

Went to go see it after all, and well sadly felt like the film was as underwhelming as the trailers made it seem. Was hoping before it started to have low expectations and therefore be pleasantly be surprised, but alas. Was bored throughout.

The main issue was that main character was always untouchable (not in a superheroic way, in an personal way), always in control of whatever situation she was in. There was this running theme of "control your emotions" but if she lacked emotional control I really wasn't seeing it; if anything she was an emotionally flat character, barely expressing feelings apart from a couple of significant moments, and even then barely knocked off balance by them. Strong characters aren't untouchable, they are deeply touched but nevertheless persevere.

There is a moment from the trailers where little Captain Marvel stands up at different points in her life, and it tries to play out in a significant moment in the film but the problem is: had she ever had a problem getting back up before this? I understand the turn which happened right then, but it fell completely flat because she went from being powerful and effectively untouchable to being more powerful and literally untouchable. Okay? Great? Now she can save the day while taking no risks, I'm so excited. I get that the Dumbledore arc was that he was supposed to be holding her back but... he was doing an absolutely terrible job of it, at no point did I get the sense that she was under some kind of spell, she was just inhibited by a chip which she finally decided to break at the narrative-appropriate moment.

The trappings of an arc surrounded the character, but they didn't actually connect so she just kind of glided through the movie. Her friend and her arc, and the other family at the end of the movie were the only things to really hook into apart from Samuel L Jackson's charm which was unfortunately muted by his new residence in the uncanny valley.

Oh well.

You apparently missed the point of some key elements.

The reason for the "control your emotions" stuff had nothing to do with Carol ACTUALLY having any issues in that regard; it was a means the Kree were using to keep her powers restrained and under their control. It wasn't for Carol's benefit. This is why she's sort of emotionless at the start, but has loosened up a LOT by the end; her acceptance of her emotional drives is what frees her in the end.

The "she always gets up" thing wasn't so much about a real change in Carol Danvers, it was about her realizing who she WAS. Regaining her memories, breaking the last shreds of that Kree mental conditioning they used to keep her in check and manageable.

She'd been knocked down. And rather than accept the conditioning and give up, she tapped into her emotions and her memories and boiled that all down into a big ole "FUCK YOU". She wasn't overcoming herself, she was overcoming the last 6 years of her life and the Kree brainwashing.

[Zaktar]

You apparently missed the point of some key elements.

The reason for the "control your emotions" stuff had nothing to do with Carol ACTUALLY having any issues in that regard; it was a means the Kree were using to keep her powers restrained and under their control. It wasn't for Carol's benefit. This is why she's sort of emotionless at the start, but has loosened up a LOT by the end; her acceptance of her emotional drives is what frees her in the end.

The "she always gets up" thing wasn't so much about a real change in Carol Danvers, it was about her realizing who she WAS. Regaining her memories, breaking the last shreds of that Kree mental conditioning they used to keep her in check and manageable.

She'd been knocked down. And rather than accept the conditioning and give up, she tapped into her emotions and her memories and boiled that all down into a big ole "FUCK YOU". She wasn't overcoming herself, she was overcoming the last 6 years of her life and the Kree brainwashing.

I intellectually understood the story beats you're referencing just fine. They don't change that that the character wasn't vulnerable, doesn't meaningfully grow, and that those plot points did not carry any emotional weight. I know you're a very literal minded person so you will no doubt be able to exhaustively point out the points at which she displayed some measure of vulnerability (when she's captured by the skulls, when she's with her friend, etc) but if you end up watching again take note of how easily and comfortably she moves past these moments and how she's never really not in control.

You say she has loosened up by the end, we're we watching the same film? The only differences I could detect was that she changed teams, had more memories, and a lot more power. Obviously her Kree leasholders were trying to hold her back, but she never seemed to care very much and had already shaken loose of their lies by the time the SI was restraining her, there was just a little left to do and when the story called for it she did it. The moment might have clicked better if she'd figured it all out at once instead dribbling the air out of the balloon.

The "Supreme Intelligence" trying to deceive her in that moment was just as likely as Dumbledore pulling it off when she blasts him instead of playing by his rules. That second moment incidentally works perfectly because she is right where we expect her to be: above his bullshit. That's where she already was with SI too, didn't need a spoiled-by-the-trailers montage to walk us through it.

As to the Kree emotional control plot line, yes obviously they were using it as a system of control, the point is it was a really stupid system of control which at no point was working. Reimagine the first fight in the film with Dumbledore where instead of lashing out and kicking the shit out of him easily, she gets frustrated and lashes out impotently only for him to get the upper hand. There is a very small detail which could show that he was in her head. It would have added *any* weight at all to their final confrontation. Instead we know full well she can kick his ass because she did so right at the outset, he never really had any control over her and we know that and she basically knew too! She could easily beat him before she ate the mushroom and tripled in size, so there was no real tension in the story. Pick almost any story point involving Carol and you have the same problem: it was too easy for her.

Also you say her acceptance of her emotional drives is what allows her to defeat the SI, but not really. Or if true the story didn't show us that at all, instead it showed us that she intellectually realized it was deceiving her and had implanted a control chip into her which she could easily destroy. There was no "wait I need to trust my feelings" arc.

Watching Captain Marvel was like playing a fun game in god mode. It's neat for a small period of time to face no challenges but it gets old fast.

That's not to say I disagree with your enjoyment of the film. Glad you did, I just didn't and it's not because the story went over my head. Sorry if this is jumbled, it's quite long and I get lazy on my phone, hope it is cohererent.

[VladimirM]

Just seen movie here in China, looks like nothing was scrapped (at least it didn't feel like it was).
Enjoyed it pretty much tbh. And she looked like she enjoyed playing the part, which is really good too.
Not too much comic scenes (few with Cat or Flurkin or whatever it's called but not too bad. )

[Svifnymr]

You apparently missed the point of some key elements.

The reason for the "control your emotions" stuff had nothing to do with Carol ACTUALLY having any issues in that regard; it was a means the Kree were using to keep her powers restrained and under their control. It wasn't for Carol's benefit. This is why she's sort of emotionless at the start, but has loosened up a LOT by the end; her acceptance of her emotional drives is what frees her in the end.

I don't think it was, all Kree are taught to control their emotions and it wasn't limited to just her.

I don't really think she was any more emotional or anything. She was emotional in the start, and I guess "acceptance" means she stopped caring about what the Kree said. As motivation goes, it's meh. Hell, she made some comment about going back to Hala for a confrontation or whatever, but it's sort of pointless since really the Kree were way too nice to her during that 6 years. She should have been dissected and studied...


The chip felt dumb, like the shock-stuff in Ragnarok. Lets just use a taser on the God of Lightning, what can go wrong? Sometimes the plot device is very transparent and I'd prefer a brain slug or hypno-toad over another stupid chip.

- - - Updated - - -

So.....

Has anyone talked about the moive?

I mean, it's okay. It's at the bottom of Marvel movies for me, but Marvel movies are generally good to me so it being at the bottom doesn't make it terrible.

It's sort of midling for discussion really. I mean, it fits itself into the MCU Past at every chance, but the fits are pretty cludgy so not much point in discussing them. The EndGame build up wasn't a whole lot.

The movie isn't bad, but EndGame is around the corner, there's more discussion in theories than there is in Captain Marvel I think.

Even the Fourth Skrull discussion seems a bit pointless to me, since there was a ship full of Skrull in orbit for over 6 years, and who knows how many more might have landed elsewhere in the intervening years or even from the ship. I know a few got out in escape pods, were those the 4 that walked out of the ocean? Were there others? It was 20 years ago, so how many others might have arrived in the meantime? The Skrull could mean anything, or nothing.

There could be a discussion to be had on how the movie interfaces (or doesn't) with the Agents of SHIELD show, but those discussions usually don't go far.

[Jotaux]

Also, it's been so long since we actually discussed the film, did anyone else notice that four Skrulls landed on Earth, we see two die (one in the car crash, one by Yon-Rogg's hand), and then there's Talos, the guy who convinces Carol to help them?

Where's the fourth goddamned Skrull?

I think its just implied he went with the others, otherwise I think there would have been a small scene about it.

[Endus]

I think its just implied he went with the others, otherwise I think there would have been a small scene about it.

It's exactly the kind of thing they pull out 3 movies later and go "HAH, you forgot, but it was PLANNED".

[ohiostate124]

I fully expect that missing Skrull to pop again later. I would have said its Maria Hill based on Fury’s comments but she got snapped. It still could be her but I’m not expecting that reveal in Endgame.

[Biomega]

It's exactly the kind of thing they pull out 3 movies later and go "HAH, you forgot, but it was PLANNED".

There's that option, of course, but in general there is a sort of device you could call a reverse Chekhov's Gun - you purposely leave a minor element unsolved, open, contradictory etc. to engage elements of your audience that watch for this stuff. It need not ever be utilized or resolved (though you have that option in the future if needed) but it will hook people all the same.

[Skulltaker]

It's exactly the kind of thing they pull out 3 movies later and go "HAH, you forgot, but it was PLANNED".

Or maybe his death fell victim to the cutting board because there was a miscommunication, or someone in the cutting department is trolling us.

Just kidding, that's not the kind of error Buena Vista usually makes.

[MandaRi]

Welp I don't know what to say, but numbers are telling that people were really waiting for this movie

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Stop discussing what the actress had said behind the scenes!! I HAVE SAID THIS A THOUSAND TIMES.