It time we call the Alt-Right what it is...A violent extremist movement

[Deletedaccount1]

A fair number of young white guys are being radicalized by places like T_D, /pol/, etc...

It's the same old story, though. These guys are having a hard time in life with both work and dating. Easiest thing to convince them of is that it's brown/black/other religion's fault.

A statistically irrelevant number. A college age male who has openly conservative views is an outlier and one who has far-right views is such a rare fringe that they would be socially ostracized if they made their views public. That is the problem with the argument happening in this thread over whether radical Islamic terrorism or white nationalism is a bigger problem and people pretending one is and the other is not. They are both problems but not very large ones because these attacks are horrifying but still rare and constitute an extremely small percentage of murders in Western countries.

Radical Islam and white nationalism do not have that many adherents in Western countries despite how people on the right and left will skew definitions to make it appear they do. People like Ben Shapiro will take polls of the views of Muslims in the West as evidence that they tacitly support terrorism. Leftists will broaden the definition of white nationalist to encompass anyone who has any degree of right-wing populist views. They are both dishonest and trying to make a problem seem larger than it is for personal political gain.

[Skroe]

Hang on, massive warhawk and neoliberal Skroe is being called a communist now? You have to laugh.

The one thing that's become clearer than anything in these political threads, especially in the last few years is there are very few people who actually know what they stand for. That especially includes the "I am a Capitalist" crowd of Target Stockboys that doesn't know the first thing about Capital.

Most people here define themselves by what they're against. Liberal things... feminism... AOC.... taxes... gun control proposals... minorities... those things irritate some people so they call themselves "conservative", as if that is what an actual conservative thing. And it goes the other way too, though less often in these parts.

With respect to the Alt-Right, this thread has been a masterpiece in our local alt-righters exposing the poverty of their so-called beliefs. They have no concept of family, of community, of ethics and the role of morality. Of prudence and incrimentalism. Of tradition. Of duty to society and the underlying philosophy of why everything we conservatives beliefs matters.

No. To them, it's been replaced by raw emotion about foreigners. About minorities. About feminism. About Islam. The list of what it is for is minuscule. It's really just a list of grievances of angry young men.

It really isn't too surprising. Many things involving conservatism are counter-intuitive. It used to be called the political philosophy of the educated. Sort of ironic in this context when we have a bunch of children who watch some Sargon of Akkad or Ben Shaprio and... heh... hilariously thinks that means anything. So it's really not surprising I get called a "leftist". I'm arguing facts and nuance with people whose political philosophy is as sophisticated as a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

Stupid kids. *shakes head*

[Zelk]

The one thing that's become clearer than anything in these political threads, especially in the last few years is there are very few people who actually know what they stand for. That especially includes the "I am a Capitalist" crowd of Target Stockboys that doesn't know the first thing about Capital.

Most people here define themselves by what they're against. Liberal things... feminism... AOC.... taxes... gun control proposals... minorities... those things irritate some people so they call themselves "conservative", as if that is what an actual conservative thing. And it goes the other way too, though less often in these parts.

With respect to the Alt-Right, this thread has been a masterpiece in our local alt-righters exposing the poverty of their so-called beliefs. They have no concept of family, of community, of ethics and the role of morality. Of prudence and incrimentalism. Of tradition. Of duty to society and the underlying philosophy of why everything we conservatives beliefs matters.

No. To them, it's been replaced by raw emotion about foreigners. About minorities. About feminism. About Islam. The list of what it is for is minuscule. It's really just a list of grievances of angry young men.

It really isn't too surprising. Many things involving conservatism are counter-intuitive. It used to be called the political philosophy of the educated. Sort of ironic in this context when we have a bunch of children who watch some Sargon of Akkad or Ben Shaprio and... heh... hilariously thinks that means anything. So it's really not surprising I get called a "leftist". I'm arguing facts and nuance with people whose political philosophy is as sophisticated as a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

Stupid kids. *shakes head*

they're the rational ones remember

[Beet]

Carl benjamin can disavow the alt-right all he wants, he's still spreading the same views and conspiracy theories as they do. Only difference is he knows not to say the quiet part loud.

No he isn’t. He has never once spread pro white anti brown/black propaganda. Also he isn’t that smart. The “alt right” literally targeted him because of the shit he was involved in doing with other YouTubers like Kraut and Tea. He was involved with people who were doxxing and trying to doxx the alt right. I’m not even a fan of his anymore, in fact listening to Metokur egg him on as Soygon cracked me up, but I will speak out when someone is lying about him or others.

Edit:

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Because either you're far-right, or you're left. That's their Overton window. It'd be funny if it weren't so goddamned sad.

Ironic that the guy you’re quoting to say this is one who believed that very thing. Because there’s no other way you could view a guy like Sargon as far or alt right. The guy literally went head to head against Spencer the so called leader of the alt right.

[Machismo]

Obviously I meant the radical leftists, that fringe group who believes in intersectionality yet has no quarrels in betraying it.
What kind of doofus thinks "lol he meant 100% of the leftists! ridiculous!". Oh, right.

You guys want to lump an entire group together, and whine how they lump everyone together...

[Malaky]

You guys want to lump an entire group together, and whine how they lump everyone together...

"You guys"? Why are you lumping me now, mhmm? Kind of a hypocrite, are we not, mmh?

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Oh neat, so it's not real socialism or communism.

Remember: that's never been tried before!

[Zelk]

No he isn’t. He has never once spread pro white anti brown/black propaganda. Also he isn’t that smart. The “alt right” literally targeted him because of the shit he was involved in doing with other YouTubers like Kraut and Tea. He was involved with people who were doxxing and trying to doxx the alt right. I’m not even a fan of his anymore, in fact listening to Metokur egg him on as Soygon cracked me up, but I will speak out when someone is lying about him or others.

a number of prominent alt-right figures have credited him with leading people to their movement. I don't want to link directly to their content but here's an article on rationalwiki about Carl Benjamin which gives a number of examples. Keep in mind Benjamin has done little to change the fact that he's encouraging his viewers to move further and further to the right through his badly thought out views.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sargon..._the_alt-right

[Elegiac]

Remember: that's never been tried before!

It's been tried plenty of times, and was likely the way human economies operated prior to the advent of civilization.

[Machismo]

"You guys"? Why are you lumping me now, mhmm? Kind of a hypocrite, are we not, mmh?

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Remember: that's never been tried before!

You are calling me a hypocrite, because I pointed out the irony and blatant hypocrisy of your comment?

More irony... love it.

[Endus]

Oh neat, so it's not real socialism or communism.

You'd have to be borderline illiterate to take that from what I'd said, and since we're participating in a forum that pretty fundamentally requires you not be so, you're just continuing to deliberately, and lazily, lie.

I honestly don't expect a constructive response to this. I'm not even trying to convince you to stop. I'm just underlining your dishonesty for everyone else following along.

[Beet]

a number of prominent alt-right figures have credited him with leading people to their movement. I don't want to link directly to their content but here's an article on rationalwiki about Carl Benjamin which gives a number of examples. Keep in mind Benjamin has done little to change the fact that he's encouraging his viewers to move further and further to the right through his badly thought out views.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sargon..._the_alt-right

Thanks for giving me an actual link. I appreciate that. I read the stuff posted and was surprised. However I then noticed, the guys saying he helps lead members to the alt right were saying this years ago. For example one was the daily storm guy in 2015 saying that and then Spencer himself said it in 2016. I think you’d have to admit things changed since those days. Even that pages more recent information shows the lengths he’s went through to try to make it abundantly clear that he wants nothing to do with them.

I will fully admit Sargon has said some things that are further to the right than he might like to admit though so don’t get me wrong. I just think the actions him and Kraut and Tea have done prove more that he’s against them instead of with him. Not to mention the entire debate he had with Spencer and Styx last year.

[Endus]

So then you're agreeing that those were real socialism and real communism? I will admit to my misunderstanding if you're agreeing with that fact.

Define "real communism" for me real quick.

If you mean "meets the definition of communism", sure.
If you mean "are representative of communist and socialist thinking in general", that's obviously, blatantly false.

The same way the shitbird who drove his car into a bunch of innocent protestors in Charlottesville meets the definition of "a white right-wing guy", but that doesn't mean he's representative of all whites, all right-wingers, all men, or any combination of the above.

Nobody seriously disputes that the USSR was communist. They're pointing out that doesn't mean anything about communist theory in general. Basic logic.

[TwistedSkull]

*socialism is leftwing (and nazism = national socialism)

learn history mate

So by your logic the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic?

[muto]

This thread belongs in the politics sub forum.

[bluntdragon]

Go ahead and label the alt-right whatever you want. It's a subverted movement full of weak men that just like to talk. Richard Spencer, Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and every other right-wing personality are just as cucked as any left-wing constituent. Both sides are controlled by either Israel and Islam, Trump is an Israeli shill. America is just a puppet at this point being manipulated by other countries with money, and has been since our politicians decided world trade and a one world order aka globalism was a great idea to control the masses. I thought Trump was a good pick, I voted for him, and I still support him; but I don't go out of my way to convince people to like him, or even make it known I voted for him irl because you can't convince people that are already set in their way of thinking, especially boomers. The internet used to be a place to escape the real world and now it's created an entire illusionary world in which people express their deepest thoughts and expressions that they most likely never express in real life, so the culture of hatred that you see on Twitter, Facebook, 4chan, here, etc is all make believe until someone with a mental illness takes it seriously and shoots up a mosque.

[Wyrt]

The irony is that you're right. Problem is, it's reversed. It's the SJW mentality that's contaminating culture and infiltrating the american system spreading like wildfire in education and lawmaking, not these serial killers who're lone wolves universally condemned.

You'll never see people walking down the street advocating for more killing, but you'll see SJW's mobs chanting to abandon core western values like free speech, the presumption of innocence, fair trials, justice and respect for different opinions and views. Far more dangerous in the long run than a guy with a gun if you ask me.

lol

People actually think this? No wonder you people have such a victim complex.

[Zelk]

you read live work work work work die by corey pein?

'what the press obligingly trivialized as Gamergate was, in fact, the first neoreactionary terror campaign'

Not read it no, but I've read plenty about Silicon Valley and it really helps drive home that feeling of impending doom. Gamergate has completely fucked this website and pretty much every big site that gives anyone who registers a platform.

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Thanks for giving me an actual link. I appreciate that. I read the stuff posted and was surprised. However I then noticed, the guys saying he helps lead members to the alt right were saying this years ago. For example one was the daily storm guy in 2015 saying that and then Spencer himself said it in 2016. I think you’d have to admit things changed since those days. Even that pages more recent information shows the lengths he’s went through to try to make it abundantly clear that he wants nothing to do with them.

I will fully admit Sargon has said some things that are further to the right than he might like to admit though so don’t get me wrong. I just think the actions him and Kraut and Tea have done prove more that he’s against them instead of with him. Not to mention the entire debate he had with Spencer and Styx last year.

In political activism, intent doesn't really matter. The results of your actions are far, far mor important and with Benjamin he's time and time again raised the profile of the far right and it's associated beliefs. A few cleanup exercises isn't enough to fix that. Even ignoring that he's a woman-hating idiot racist anyway so why give him the benefit of the doubt?

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So then you're agreeing that those were real socialism and real communism? I will admit to my misunderstanding if you're agreeing with that fact.

USSR was an aspiring communist society. That means attempting to transfer from a nation state to a stateless, class-free society. If you read Marx he's very clear about what makes a soicety communist, and the answer isn't being ruled by the communist party. I think it's fine to call it a communist state in normal conversation, but it's also wrong on a technical level. Obviously talking about something like that requires reading more than most people on here have done but it's still a useful thing to consider. In fairness to you I find the ""socialists"" that say that's not real communism as tiresome as most people on the right do, because that argument is useless outside of left wing spaces.

[mvaliz]

Extremism is dangerous no matter where it is. The problem also is though, who is the alt-right? Is it the terrorists killing innocent people? The skinheads protesting? The racist/bigots that don't like black/gay people? The ones who just like to post Pepe in twitch chat? The ones advocating for free speech? People like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson, and heck even Pewdiepie? Because the problem is that right now, all these people seem to all fall under the umbrella "alt-right", some who I would argue has nothing to do with it, but what do I know, I have no idea what the alt-right even is about. And it seems like nobody does. I have never been able to find any definition as to what the alt-right embodies or what they stand for as a collective. I would honestly love if anyone could tell me, because I am clueless at this point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

Scroll down to the "Beliefs" section.

You're welcome.

EDIT: also, while you're there, look how the term was coined - it was the Alt-Right who coined themselves as alt-right.

[Zervek]

We also need to say the same for the alt-left, tbh. I firmly believe both sides are equal in terms of bigotry and violence. They are two sides of the same coin. The alt-right hate women and minorities, whereas the alt-left hate straight white males. Don't believe me? Check out leftist media such as Buzzfeed and their popular youtubers. These two groups need to meet at a mutual understanding or else we will never get anywhere.

Fortunately, Trump has been making good progress at getting rid of the division these two groups are causing, but I don't think even that will be enough.

[Depakote]

Why?
Because i want these guys called extremists? Thats exactly what they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIURXjVXzv0

Yes that's exactly why. They are not extremists and I won't even acknowledge the argument you're trying to push because it's based on a lie.

We also need to say the same for the alt-left, tbh. I firmly believe both sides are equal in terms of bigotry and violence. They are two sides of the same coin. The alt-right hate women and minorities, whereas the alt-left hate straight white males. Don't believe me? Check out leftist media such as Buzzfeed and their popular youtubers. These two groups need to meet at a mutual understanding or else we will never get anywhere.

Fortunately, Trump has been making good progress at getting rid of the division these two groups are causing, but I don't think even that will be enough.

Your head is so far up your ass that you can't smell your own bullshit.