Remember the Legion 'World Tour' raids?

[Mightytasty]

I agree OP there needs to be more incentive to do old raids, but not so much that it feels mandatory. It’s a fine balance.

[Mic_128]

OP must be new to WoW. World Tour raids have been around since Vanilla.

The point is, they aren't around now. I want to take my mage in Uldir and get a couple of the cool weapon appearances, but no one wants to run it.

[Tojara]

There's a reason these don't exist anymore. In Legion you had multiple reasons to do old content. Bad luck protection for legendary items, TF/WF tier gear, and raid trinkets. BFA essentially removes two and a half of these points, with raid trinkets largely being hit or miss.

Heroic and Normal mode raids seem largely useless outside of preliminary gearing at the start of each season, or for new characters. Of course guilds which sole purpose is to do those raids exist, but the current design makes it largely irrelevant for people to do older content in BFA. BFA raids aren't particularly more challenging than Legion ones, it's just there's zero incentives for higher geared players to bother doing lower tiered raids/difficulties than it was in Legion.

M+ trinkets are powerful, you can't pad BLP legendary chance doing trivial raids in an expansion without them, and finally there's no tier gear. There's no WF/TF on tier gear (which I think is good), but at the same time max iLvL tier gear can be accomplished in 7-9 weeks in each slot in the form of Azerite gear by simply doing a 10 each week. I don't think anybody thought running 2 set/4 set in Legion was fun, but I don't think this new system is particularly great either.

It's really not all that surprising to me that older content is obsoleted, this has essentially been how the games operated for quite a few expansions now, with Legion being the absolute exception. You can date this process all the way back to WoTLK of having very little reason to go back and do old raids. The only time you went back and did old raids was for legendary items or the collection process of those items, or very rarely super fringe trinkets (or mounts). The only other time you used old raids is to catch people up in gear, but that's become an increasingly less attractive option given catch up mechanics (badges, valor, dungeons, LFR, and now M+). This era of the game in particular makes doing raid content lower than heroic not that efficient considering M+ is out there.

Vanilla and Legion are the only true exceptions to this rule, with TBC being sort of borderline. Vanilla is particularly unique in this regard because you have powerful gear scattered across it's four tiers, and quite a few pieces being equally powerful from dungeons. I'd argue that Naxxaramas sort of obsoletes everything before it, but that's also fine considering it's the last tier and you kind of want gear prior anyways. Legions staying power in this regard was simply system based and nothing more. Whether that's a good system is entirely up to you.

[Mic_128]

It's really not all that surprising to me that older content is obsoleted, this has essentially been how the games operated for quite a few expansions now, with Legion being the absolute exception. You can date this process all the way back to WoTLK of having very little reason to go back and do old raids.

We at least had badges then (And weekly 'kill this non-max-tier raid boss' quests for more badges) to get us going back in there.

[rohoz]

I'm curious if the irony is lost on you here or if it was your point to make a joke.

I'm here to laugh at badge babies, as per usual.

- - - Updated - - -

The point is, they aren't around now. I want to take my mage in Uldir and get a couple of the cool weapon appearances, but no one wants to run it.

go make a group, people will join eventually

[Reyuna]

Gear doesn't mean much anymore (well for a long time) as we now seemingly have "seasons" and gear is hard-reset every 6 months or so.

[Mardux]

Legendarys were a huge reason for those, kept almost all content relevant the entire expac.

And sadly, people cried about legendaries. So blizzard removed them, which is why previous tier raids aren't run. Short of tmogs, theres no reason to go back, thanks to people who wanted legendaries gone.

[Taeldorian]

As much as I disliked legendaries, they were basically the sole reason you’d go back and go old content. On top of the AP gains, having a chance at a legendary from content that’s slightly easier made people wanna do that.

I disliked how they did legendaries but I never wanted them removed, I just would’ve preferred them to balance them better which they ended up doing in 7.1.5 and 7.2. I also disliked the fact they could drop from simple WQ caches and quest mobs, that was kinda ridiculous.

Hopefully we see something that can allow content from past “seasons” or tiers to be relavent throughout most of the expansion. It’s actually really boring and bad that with every new season in BfA the last one is completely irrelevant. It’s an MMORPG, not PoE. It feels way too restricted and influenced in BfA than it did in legion with much less reason to complete or participate in anything due to every new season invalidating what you did in the last.

[Vynestra]

Theres not a great reason to run old raids this xpac.

Another downside of gutting legiondairies.

In legion in antorus you you'd run all the old ones to get legendaries, amongst others.

I do miss legiondaries for many reasons.

[Soon-TM]

And sadly, people cried about legendaries. So blizzard removed them, which is why previous tier raids aren't run. Short of tmogs, theres no reason to go back, thanks to people who wanted legendaries gone.

People didn't cry about legendaries themselves, but about the way they were acquired, aka sheer dumb RNG which Blizz seems to have a hardon for these days. If legendaries had been targetable from the beginning, there would have been much less outrage.

[Mic_128]

go make a group, people will join eventually

I have, 3 times, and they didn't.

[rohoz]

I have, 3 times, and they didn't.

oh wow, three whole times?

[Kazuchika]

Theres not a great reason to run old raids this xpac.

Another downside of gutting legiondairies.

In legion in antorus you you'd run all the old ones to get legendaries, amongst others.

I do miss legiondaries for many reasons.

I miss them incentivizing doing lower end content instead of sitting around with nothing to do because nothing in BFA is worth doing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Remember valor, conquest points? Remember when Dungeons gave you a valid reason to do them weekly? Remember the weekly conquest bar u had to fill up.
Remember reputation tabards u could use to spam dungeons with?
Remember Justice points? Remember when people spammed dungeons to get that 1 epic item that just wouldn't drop?

What u just said isn't new. Things go away each expansion. sadly all the good things of WoW.
Sadly 99% Blizzard is the cause of that.

Many of the things you listed are still In game like a valid reason to do Dungeons weekly, conquest bar, people spamming dungeons to get that 1 epic time.

[cparle87]

This.

There is 0 reason to run Uldir.

People will still run BoD forever though since it drops 2 mounts.

Mog and achievements are 2 reasons.

[munkeyinorbit]

This sentiment dies with my ~400+ ilvl gear obtained by random chance off of world quests. VP gear was heroic item level.

Gear of a good item level is laughably easy to get in modern WoW, that's a big reason people want VP back. Somehow you're shortsighted enough that you think getting a single good piece of at the time heroic item level gear every two weeks is easier than just randomly completing solo content and regularly obtaining gear near the item level cap. That's a huge leap of logic.

No one regularly gets 400+ ilvl from WQ. Stop exaggerating to try and win a non existent argument.

[Louz]

Afaik people did EN because it was required for the weapon skins.

Blizz really dropped the ball with Uldir - not only there's no questline involved, but if you play Alliance, you get pretty much zero context on it - it's just a raid you do for the loots.

As for legendaries - I find it hilarious that some would think it's a good game design, when people get so desperate over a rare, but mandatory item, they need to clear literally everything there is, even if it's a super low chance - as per blizzard's confirmation, that old raids had their leggo drop chance greatly reduced and shouldn't be considered a good source - people still go there, just because they're so desperate and hope for that zero-point-zero drop.

Funny how BfA is called RNG heavy, yet Legion was much much worse, from legendaries to completely random pvp gear or even the fact that you had to get 3 different relics for each of the specs you play, and later added the nether crucible on top of that. But naaaaaah BfA bad cuz yootoober sez so.

[Argorwal]

This sentiment dies with my ~400+ ilvl gear obtained by random chance off of world quests. VP gear was heroic item level.

Gear of a good item level is laughably easy to get in modern WoW, that's a big reason people want VP back. Somehow you're shortsighted enough that you think getting a single good piece of at the time heroic item level gear every two weeks is easier than just randomly completing solo content and regularly obtaining gear near the item level cap. That's a huge leap of logic.

They were both bad for the game.

Good gear shouldn't come from easy content like now and also like before with badges.

It's stupid.

[munkeyinorbit]

Blizzard should bring back enchanting and do it for tiers.
No enchants in game except from drops off bosses. 15 enchants could drop and you can only get each one once within a tier. Let's say it takes 45 boss kills to get them all and you can use them as much as you want on your gear so you can have different sets or upgraded gear you would enchant with your enchant drops.

To activate your enchant so you can use them, an enchanter needs to wave their wand over it.

When the next raid tier starts, your enchant turns into grey trash item and you start again.

As tiers go by, previous raid tiers have less of a chance to drop the newest enchants but are still worth doing.

You guys are welcome. I fixed wow.

[rohoz]

This sentiment dies with my ~400+ ilvl gear obtained by random chance off of world quests. VP gear was heroic item level.

Gear of a good item level is laughably easy to get in modern WoW, that's a big reason people want VP back. Somehow you're shortsighted enough that you think getting a single good piece of at the time heroic item level gear every two weeks is easier than just randomly completing solo content and regularly obtaining gear near the item level cap. That's a huge leap of logic.

link to armory, with all of your ~400 il wq gear