Bod, one of the best raids ever?

[sirethas]

My only issue with BoD (and lately with all released raids) is the difficulty curve. It's beyond stupid. The amount of pulls on last boss can easily exceed the amount of pulls you need on every other boss in raid combined, that's terrible design. It's really no fun spending 200 pulls on all bosses and 300-400 pulls on one boss alone. It's bad, it's exhausting, it's tiring it's not fun. For an avarege guild, like those I raided with in recent times, it's very common to spend like 1-2 months to get to last boss, and then spend 2 months on last boss alone.

There was no joy after killing mythic Argus, no happiness, just a big loud sigh, say some bad words to player who was lucky to get that mount because you will most likely never do it again (unless 2 expansions later and you solo it). I would rather spend 500 pulls in total spread somehow evenly accross the raid than do 8 bosses in 150-200 pulls and last boss 300 pulls.

[Nachtigal]

Those lines are mechanics lines. When Jaina says something, she's not "talking" to you, she's announcing a mechanic. You know, the ones people use DBM for and pretend they couldn't do if DBM wouldn't exist. When she says X line, you're supposed to know Y ability is coming. People are incapable of realizing that's the purpose of it as it is, you want variety for it, too?

It’s mentalities such as yours that drove this game to such a stale state. If they want to announce a mechanic, have it done through the ui with an alert. Having an enemy who is supposed to be “big” or “omnipotent” while only having a few voice lines that they’re forced to repeat so often breaks the illusion. Oh, you’re supposed to be a wickedly powerful mage? Why do you keep saying that, all that power but cant think of anything else to say? Maybe instead of a witty one liner which is annoying after hearing it once, she could chant an incantation to announce that spell. It’s all about immersion.

[Beingbob]

Surprised people have such a negative perception of the raid. Personally, from a mythic raider perspective, I think it's the best raid since Nighthold, although I think it has some issues that prevent it from being a contender for the best raid(s). Champions of the Light was both a little boring mechanically and very undertuned on mythic; I think the first boss should be a gift boss like always, but my team oneshot it without really playing properly (moving adds out of waves of light consistently), and it's sad to see people who are maybe 3-5/9 heroic and already 1/9 mythic. Grong is a solid fight, and Jadefire is quite fun although a little undertuned. Opulence imo is a really great fight and quite well tuned, but Conclave and Rastakhan were a bit too easy and stale on mythic since there are so few changes from heroic. Mechatorque is great and one of the most unique fights they've done in a long time, although I think it's a bit shit that a big part of the challenge is dealing with awkward camera angles/zoom when you're shrunk - it's not that dodging flames and not stomping on people it's hard, it's that orientating yourself is awkward.

I've been benched for Stormwall and Jaina so far, but Stormwall looks to be a bit undertuned for the second-to-last boss, but overall a decent fight (not sure if Blizzard intended for people to just soak the lightning in P2 though, and to let the minibosses channel in P1, both strategies feel a little cheesy). Can't comment on Jaina, but it seems like a relatively standard final boss which is fine, as they've put a lot of work into them for several expansions now.

I do think the setting of the raid diminishes it a little though. It's always refreshing to see some grand new environment in a raid, and this time Dazar'alor has been used by Horde players for months already. Obviously this was their plan from the start and they wouldn't have made such large capitals without intending to reuse them (in a dungeon for Boralus), but it's a bit less interesting imo than exploring a new area like the Nighthold, Throne of Thunder, or the Tomb of Sargeras.

I think people, perhaps even myself, complain a bit too much about the tuning though. The second part of the tier is coming in less than a month, and assuming the difficulty is tuned so that, on mythic, these are 'end bosses', it would be unfortunate if half the mythic guilds were stuck between Conclave and Stormwall, and being months away from even trying the new raid on mythic.

[Highelf]

Everything is opinions man. You stating it make you seem clueless.

I like Gelbin too, interesting fight, but the build up is not really there. Like there is 2 cool mechanics, the bots and World Enlarger, but the fight in itself is not that well made. His final phase is not really changing much, you just sit and wait in his intermession phase and there is really little need for a tank swap ability, since either of the tanks have very little to do aside from just taunting.

So yeah, it can be fun, but is it a great fight? Not really.

And putting it up against Uldir and saying its better, does not really say alot.

Again that's only your opinion man. You getting defensive about it makes you seem pathetic.

[Flurryfang]

Again that's only your opinion man. You getting defensive about it makes you seem pathetic.

It was merely an observation.

That you can only talk about it being my opinion, makes it seem like you have not much of a counter or argument to send back. Its okay if all you have is "...well, i like it" as a basis for your statement, but then you should really not try to even stay in a discussion if you are not ready to defend your stance.

[Micronetic]

Throne of Thunder is still my all time favourite raid.

[tclphz]

My only issue with BoD (and lately with all released raids) is the difficulty curve. It's beyond stupid. The amount of pulls on last boss can easily exceed the amount of pulls you need on every other boss in raid combined, that's terrible design. It's really no fun spending 200 pulls on all bosses and 300-400 pulls on one boss alone. It's bad, it's exhausting, it's tiring it's not fun. For an avarege guild, like those I raided with in recent times, it's very common to spend like 1-2 months to get to last boss, and then spend 2 months on last boss alone.

There was no joy after killing mythic Argus, no happiness, just a big loud sigh, say some bad words to player who was lucky to get that mount because you will most likely never do it again (unless 2 expansions later and you solo it). I would rather spend 500 pulls in total spread somehow evenly accross the raid than do 8 bosses in 150-200 pulls and last boss 300 pulls.

Isn't this often the case? The amount of pulls on last boss often is quite high. I think the different is in prior raids, there were other bosses that required a high number of pulls and this raid that didn't seem to be the case.

[Jastall]

Isn't this often the case? The amount of pulls on last boss often is quite high. I think the different is in prior raids, there were other bosses that required a high number of pulls and this raid that didn't seem to be the case.

Yeah, Jaina isn't that difficult as endbosses go, the curve is a bit out of whack because the previous bosses are too easy. But for top guilds, 300-ish pulls on the final boss has been the norm since ToT at least, with only Xavius really breaking that mold if memory serves.

[sirethas]

Isn't this often the case? The amount of pulls on last boss often is quite high. I think the different is in prior raids, there were other bosses that required a high number of pulls and this raid that didn't seem to be the case.

Often doesn's mean it's good, in my opinion Nighthold was the best balanced raidin a long time and that's how blizzard should tune their raids, with Gul'dan being hardest boss but the difference between him and likes of Star Augur or Elisande wasn't completly off the chart

[Mamut]

I like BoD but for me Nighthold was way better. I liked this raid alot.

[Woobels]

It's adequate but forgettable.

[Sithalos]

It's a filler raid for a filler expansion.

Beat me to it.

[Highelf]

It was merely an observation.

That you can only talk about it being my opinion, makes it seem like you have not much of a counter or argument to send back. Its okay if all you have is "...well, i like it" as a basis for your statement, but then you should really not try to even stay in a discussion if you are not ready to defend your stance.

you're the one getting personal about it. you ok? IT was an observation by YOU, YOUR eyes. I did the same thing through mine. Pretty neat huh?

[Sageless]

It's a decent raid, but as a player that choose a ranged class because I like the playstyle of standing away from a boss and seeing my character there are several fights that are just annoying as hell. Several fights require stacking in a big blob or in a cramped space, both detract heavily from my preferred play experience.

Several fights also seem designed to add an annoying camera angle to increase difficulty (walls in opulence, mekkatorque shrunk mechanic).

Also while not directly related to the fights, it is a shame there are relatively few bosses. Meaning too little room for difficulty scaling. And my personal annoyance is that this is the second raid in this expansion that has terrible trinkets. Combined with some specs needing on-use trinkets to pop together with cooldowns you can be stuck with a 360 WQ trinket that outperforms every raid trinket that is available.

Not to mention that due to more focus on world first races, there are no more gear check bosses due to titanforging (as the dedicated world first guilds often have higher itemlevel going into mythic than the rank 1000+ guild). This means it becomes stacking mechanic on mechanic on mechanic. And being unlucky getting targetted in succession by mechanics, means in essence you are taken out of the fight doing the frustrating shitty stuff.

[FuxieDK]

I like BoD but for me Nighthold was way better. I liked this raid alot.

Nighthold was the same boring blue as the rest of Suramar.

The only positive thing about Nighthold, was that we got to kill elves..

[Flurryfang]

I like BoD but for me Nighthold was way better. I liked this raid alot.

What makes you like Nighthold?

For me, the colour scheme of raid made it very tiring and i had a hard time staying focused through the entire raid, since my eyes just kept watching blue on top of blue. The bosses were also not that interesting i think, aside from Gul'dan, Spellblade and Krosus.

[Stormbreed]

I don't see the hype..

- The only really interesting fight is Mekkatorque..
- Walls after first boss, doesn't despawn until 1-2 minutes after boss is dead; clearly an oversight that you need to wait for all to see cinematic for nth time.
- Too big trash packs and too many of them, with too far between them.
- The faction switching is a disaster.. When I go as Horde, I have no interest in being forced to kill off yet another faction leader; it's simply stupid!!
- When I go as Alliance, even though I don't hate Jaina from the bottom of my heart, I don't want to kill her; oh well, we don't get to kill her even though she'd have comming nfor a decade..

No, BoD is not one of the best raids....

Let us know when you've cleared it.

I give it a 7.5

[tangers58]

Mediocre. Expansion needs a real raid, 7 months in with two half sized raids and an even smaller one coming. The lack of effort put into this expansion doesn't seem to be improving with time.

[lockybalboa]

Are you serious? I can name at least 8 raids that are better.

[Platinengel]

Are you serious? I can name at least 8 raids that are better.

But you know the difference between a discussion and an opinion? And you know what "toleranting other opinions" means?

Additionally, the title says "ONE OF THE best raids ever", so even if there are 'at least' 8 better raids, it's still in the range for that terminology, since we're talking about ~46 Raids in total (if I counted correct).

So how about describing what you liked and what you dont liked about BFD? And it would be interesting on what level you experienced your raiding there.