Terrorist Attack in Netherlands

[Yriel]

many of these are attacks on muslims by radicals claiming to be muslims. while the discussion had blown the horse into a fine powder. the question is, if you blame islam, then its both the person attacking in its name and the person being attacked.

Islam is not one religion, it has multiple cults that in many parts of the world hate each other and see each other as apostates. Plus Islam has a strong secular demand and as such there are many reasons to fight and kill each for control of the land, too.

[Najnaj]

Alright, so what is the context then? Is there a list of the attacks made by other religions / groups? I know it happens vs muslims too like the rohingya and the uighurs but I'm unsure of the scale.

The context for at least half of them is that they are in active war zones. I would bet everything I own on that the context for 99% of them is poverty.

[Cizr]

So you think Christians Jews ect have a 0% violent crime world wide? I’m gonna guess that’s not the case.

No. Pretty sure I talked about terrorism

[Endus]

The context for at least half of them is that they are in active war zones. I would bet everything I own on that the context for 99% of them is poverty.

http://visionofhumanity.org/indexes/terrorism-index/

From the report itself;

"Conflict remains the primary driver of terrorism in most countries throughout the world. The ten countries with the highest impact of terrorism are all engaged in at least one conflict. These ten countries accounted for 84 per cent of all deaths from terrorism in 2017. When combined with countries with high levels of political terror the number jumps to over 99 per cent. Political terror involves extra-judicial killings, torture and imprisonment without trial. "

Religion largely does not drive terrorism. It's conflict and geopolitics. Almost exclusively.

[Najnaj]

http://visionofhumanity.org/indexes/terrorism-index/

From the report itself;

"Conflict remains the primary driver of terrorism in most countries throughout the world. The ten countries with the highest impact of terrorism are all engaged in at least one conflict. These ten countries accounted for 84 per cent of all deaths from terrorism in 2017. When combined with countries with high levels of political terror the number jumps to over 99 per cent. Political terror involves extra-judicial killings, torture and imprisonment without trial. "

Religion largely does not drive terrorism. It's conflict and geopolitics. Almost exclusively.

...and poverty, always poverty. Nearly every piece of human ugliness there is in this world is somehow related to poverty.

[Kumorii]

Are you serious what?Why do you people here always struggle with basic reading comprehension

Dude is trying to depict muslims as this terrible group of poeple with a list of 'terror' attacks (from a racist website), ignoring the clear fact that the main victim in that list is also...muslims.

If all Muslims were this big bad scary group of terrorists or terrorists-to-be, then it doesn't make sense that they are killing each other. I mean I can go out and find white on white murders for the past 5 years and act like white people are this big scary thing. The truths that the main victim of Muslim terrorism is...other muslims.

Cherry picking data only shows your agenda and and dishonesty. Something very basic I would hope you can understand.

Because different Muslims believe different things and thus some wants others dead for it. Still not sure why them being Muslim somehow makes it less of a problem which the middle east have. AFAIK they have the most terrorist attacks in the world. Acknowledging that is the first step to understand why that is.

You were the one coming with the response "they are Muslim viciins tho"... Doesn't matter if he thinks Muslims are evil or not its still a problem.

[Razzako]

Hey,few questions :

1) listing terror attacks is "spreading hate"? If someone listed terror attacks done by christians would it be also spreading hate and racism ?

2) muslims are race?

3) who is this "we" ? Some collective hivemind that you are part of?}

1. The lists are literally discriminating towards muslim.

2. Here you go, educate yourself a bit.

3. Clearly not you, that was rhetorical.

Now you too get the fuck out.

[solvexx]

1. The lists are literally discriminating towards muslim.

2. Here you go, educate yourself a bit.

3. Clearly not you, that was rhetorical.

Now you too get the fuck out.

Islam is a religion not a race. Posting a random wiki article doesn't change that.

[Cizr]

1. The lists are literally discriminating towards muslim.

2. Here you go, educate yourself a bit.

3. Clearly not you, that was rhetorical.

Now you too get the fuck out.

1. How is it discriminating towards them? And if someone listed terror attack done by christians would it also be spreading hate and racism?

2. No they are not race. Muslims can be of any race. Implying that only non whites and non asians can be muslims is pretty racist

3. alright

Why so angery btw?

[Razzako]

Islam is a religion not a race. Posting a random wiki article doesn't change that.

Let me just directly quote it and cut to the chase.

Several scholars consider Islamophobia to be a form of xenophobia or racism.

[horbindr]

Islam is a religion not a race. Posting a random wiki article doesn't change that.

is there even a word specifically referring to discrimination based on religion? (let alone a word in common usage?)

seems to me that the meaning of the word racism nowadays just includes more then just race.

[Razzako]

1. How is it discriminating towards them? And if someone listed terror attack done by christians would it also be spreading hate and racism?

2. No they are not race. Muslims can be of any race. Implying that only non whites and non asians can be muslims is pretty racist

3. alright

Why so angery btw?

1. Because it's cherry picking, you can do the same against for Christians and it would be equally cherry picking. Why can't we keep it unbiased?

2. Islamophobia, basically what I posted above.

This topic gets me a bit emotional ever since the attack and the video, sorry.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No. Pretty sure I talked about terrorism

Terrorism isn’t the only thing that makes some one a “murderous psychopath” so either there is data on violent crime committed by other religions or the rate is 0. You even said it doesn’t matter if it’s a Muslim or a Jew so why single out one and claim that data on the other might not exist when it should be clear that the rate is not zero across any group.

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Dismissing religion as ONE of the causes of terrorist violence is pretty naive. Definitely poverty, geopolitics, lack of education play a substantial role as well. But there's a LOT of fuel in religious writings to further accentuate the points of frustration.

It's damn sad that we have to talk in ambiguous terms and cannot properly describe what's going on without getting infracted, but I cannot just look at this dismissal of one of the main causes of violence in the world for millennia now.

I don’t think any one is arguing that religion doesn’t play any role I think the discount is because people will say that religion is THE reason in of its self and will ignore other factors.

It’s kinda the same as people who will site crime rates and point soly to race ignoring all the other factors.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There are quite a few clear dismissals in this topic, one is recent. Can we at least be honest about things?

Could you quote a few examples? Going over the last two pages I don’t really see any one comply dismissing that the religion has any part of it. The nearest seems to be endus saying that religion doesn’t largely drive terrorism which isn’t the same as saying it doesn’t drive it at all.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

is there even a word specifically referring to discrimination based on religion? (let alone a word in common usage?)

seems to me that the meaning of the word racism nowadays just includes more then just race.

No, but there is the more generic "prejudice," which functions as a catch-all. More precise than calling it racism, but at the end of the day arguing semantics over what to call a specific instance of hatred is just deflection. It serves only to distract from the issue.

[Endus]

I don’t think any one is arguing that religion doesn’t play any role I think the discount is because people will say that religion is THE reason in of its self and will ignore other factors.

It’s kinda the same as people who will site crime rates and point soly to race ignoring all the other factors.

There's no significant correlation between religion and terrorist activity. None. See the studies I linked. There are Muslim nations with negligible-to-nonexistent terrorist activity; if it were the religion driving such, that would not be the case.

Religion is often used as a justification, but it is not the driving cause behind terrorism. Much the same way that a wife talking back to her husband isn't the cause of him beating her and putting her into the hospital; that's down to his own brutality and viciousness and desire to hurt others.

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No, but there is the more generic "prejudice," which functions as a catch-all. More precise than calling it racism, but at the end of the day arguing semantics over what to call a specific instance of hatred is just deflection. It serves only to distract from the issue.

Seriously, quibbling over precisely what flavour of prejudiced bigotry you're expressing is a waste of everyone's time, since the only relevant point being brought up is that it is prejudiced bigotry.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There's no significant correlation between religion and terrorist activity. None. See the studies I linked. There are Muslim nations with negligible-to-nonexistent terrorist activity; if it were the religion driving such, that would not be the case.

Religion is often used as a justification, but it is not the driving cause behind terrorism. Much the same way that a wife talking back to her husband isn't the cause of him beating her and putting her into the hospital; that's down to his own brutality and viciousness and desire to hurt other others.

Oh I comptly agree, the only real factor I could think of is as you said the justifcation. So the question would really come down would they have committed the same act with a different justification or none at all, id personally say yes they would but there’s no real way to prove that, which is the only reason I’d say it could be a factor even if I don’t believe it was.

[Kumorii]

So basically you quoted me with complete disregard to my only point (which was to show why his hatred of Muslims in general is dumb and wrong), and give me some $1 hallmark one liner while also putting words in my mouth? If a race of people are both equally the attacker and the victim, then it is just as fair to paint them as victims as it is to paint them as big scurry ISIS terrorirsts, which is my point. I served 2.5 years over in the middle east, I have worn this bracelet on my arm for over 10 years now with the names of my battle buddies who were lost in combat. Yet I still don't choose to see the entire race of people as terrorists, because for every terrorist I met over there I saw 10 good people just trying to live their lives and take care of their families. This fear mongering against an entire race of people, mostly by scared white kids who have never left their home state, is ridiculous and outright shameful.

Yes they do have the most terrorist attacks in the world in recent history, and that is mostly due to geopolitics, and the US is not blameless in that regard by any means. The situation is way above my pay grade to figure out, but I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to jaw off like I can solve the world's problems if only they would listen to my forum posts on MMO-C by golly!

Your only point is flawed in that regard. If I understood you correctly, you said. If all muslims were evil why would the kill each other? Well, because that's what evil people do. Even if they were truly evil they would still have diverse subgroups that would want to do evil to each other. Which is why I think it has no real point if he thinks they are evil or not, because the fact is that they are killing each other regardless of who is evil or good. It stems to politics and religion, I know many like to say it's only political or geopolitical, but fact remains that religion IS politics in the middle east to some if not major extent, hell it's even embedded in politics even in US afaik. Religion is a contributing factor since many of the subgroups within the countries, and I'm not only speaking for the few violent ones, is based merely on religious views. There is plenty of segregation based on it as can be seen in lebanon. It was kind of a surreal experience to drive there and see almost a visible border between a sunni controlled area that was worn down and looked pretty bad and poor and right next to it where the democratic rule reigned it was more like western civilizations with flashy billboards and shopping centers and such.

We also avoided certain areas due to different groups controlling said areas.

Not sure where i put words in your mouth. I can definitely see you did not mean to come across like it was ok because the victims are muslims, but that line is so heavily used whenever someone point out islamic terrorism is the main contributor and it gets met with "You know majority of victims are muslims?" like it has a bearing on how serious it is based on victims.

Obviously that's not your point though, but that line sure do ticks me off a bit.

[Forogil]

Why not? They are a religion-based terrorist organization. They have not been very active since the Good Friday agreement, but that may change very soon and in any event, their present inactivity does not invalidate their previous actions. I mean, what's your cutoff for "active" anyway? Say Al Qaeda hasn't hijacked a plane in 18 years, does that mean 9/11 suddenly never happened?

Obviously not.
But none of IRA ("Real", "Provisional", etc) are killing people at the moment.

Al Qaeda variants have so far in 2019 likely killed 97 persons (the listed attacks had 6 5 2 12 10 1 2 4 2 5 2 3 2 6 1 18 9 7 victims), additionally 27 by pro-al Qaeda groups. Note that the numbers exclude al-Qaeda members. The Islamic State is already above 100 for the current month.

The Troubles took thousands of lives. The IRA may have been more discriminate in their choice of targets then suicide bombers, but targeted terror is still terror.

Obviously, but indiscriminate targeting of civilians matter to most people - especially civilians. And I notice how you switch between IRA and "the troubles".

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Let me just directly quote it and cut to the chase.
"Several scholars consider Islamophobia to be a form of xenophobia or racism."

I believe you are unfamiliar with how Wikipedia works.

"Several scholars" is a code-word for saying that the view is only held by a few - and not the generally agreed definition.

That can also be reformulated as: "Few consider Islamophobia to be a form of xenophobia or racism."

If you read the article instead of just selectively quote-linking you would also find that Islamophobia doesn't even have generally agreed upon meaning.

[ipaq]

Obviously not.
But none of IRA ("Real", "Provisional", etc) are killing people at the moment.

Al Qaeda variants have so far in 2019 likely killed 97 persons (the listed attacks had 6 5 2 12 10 1 2 4 2 5 2 3 2 6 1 18 9 7 victims), additionally 27 by pro-al Qaeda groups. Note that the numbers exclude al-Qaeda members. The Islamic State is already above 100 for the current month.


Obviously, but indiscriminate targeting of civilians matter to most people - especially civilians. And I notice how you switch between IRA and "the troubles".

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I believe you are unfamiliar with how Wikipedia works.

"Several scholars" is a code-word for saying that the view is only held by a few - and not the generally agreed definition.

That can also be reformulated as: "Few consider Islamophobia to be a form of xenophobia or racism."

If you read the article instead of just selectively quote-linking you would also find that Islamophobia doesn't even have generally agreed upon meaning.

Only racists would redefine racism to not look like the giant twats they are.

Islamophobia is racism. Grow up, Get Educated or Find your Manhood.

PS: And yes both the IRA and, at a time (and some still), White Christian Organizations in the south of the USA are terrorists groups.