[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Kronik85]

French president 'will block Brexit extension request'
French news magazine Le Point is reporting that President Emmanuel Macron will block Theresa May's request for an extension.

"For Macron, it is decided: it is necessary to stop beating around the bush, and refuse the British any postponement of Brexit," the publication writes.

"This is in any case the position he will express on Thursday at the European Council."

Well, that's going to put us into a bit of pickle. I mean I'd say that I hope this wakes MPs up as to how the EU means business and they are well past the point of being due any good will from our neighbours but, well. This is our MPs we are talking about and they seem to labour under the illusion that just about everybody believes that the HoC is centre of the world when it comes to politics.

[Shalcker]

It is allowed, it's called Article 50.

So, any take-back has to be "nuclear option"?

You don't see it as problematic and dangerous?

After all, threshold for passing is a lot lower; asymmetry is pretty clear.

[Shalcker]

Let's reiterate. You cannot just unilaterally decide to not honor an international agreement just because.

You certainly can and do in practice, and pretending otherwise is delusional.

Penalties for breaking such agreement can be sufficient to stop it from happening often (or for too long), but possibility is never off the table. And if there is no direct penalty, it depends on goodwill.

Some agreements, like, for example, recently destroyed INF treaty, are not even designed to be perfectly honored - they were introduced to stall various developments, not to stop them outright, with clear understanding that violations can and will happen.

[Kronik85]

I mean the EU did show May good will and gave her changes to the deal that the House then proceeded to tear up.

We've been humoured enough I think.

Looks like we are getting the Emergency Debate, and once The House has declared that it wants a long extension it can be ignored by May then dismissed by the EU and the HoC can give themselves a pat on the back for another day wasted.

[Slant]

I was simply saying, saying that the EU does not hold referendums is a sign of everything is idiotic in the first place because it doesn't have the authority to do so. It's like accusing me of not being democratic because I don't hold national elections in my bathroom. I mean I could but no one would come and no one would respect the results

I wasn't arguing against your statement, I was adding to it. See, while I agree with you, saying "holding a referendum by laymen that don't know the subject matter" plays right into the hand of anarchists that feel oppressed by fucking street lights going red when they want to cross the road. So to speak.

[Arunu]

I'm talking about Brexit and how amazing it is. Stop flaming because you dislike someone's opinion.

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I bet you vote D66

I'm betting he doesn't.

I'm thoroughly confused as to what you would vote though in our nation.
Nexit is kind of a FvD - Thierry "I'm totally not a Nazi, i just happen to talk, walk and retweet constant Nazi shite" Baudet or our resident bleach manga Geert " who would blame even the sun going down on Islam" Wilders.

you got me confused as you claim you're certainly not right wing.
Perhaps i missed the memo but I do not recall any of our other parties advocating for a Nexit/ EU collapse.
a few tiny ones being euro skeptic but definitely not wanting leave.

[Slant]

The EU is signifying that they will have an answer as early as tomorrow.

This points to a swift rejection.

[Arunu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social..._(Netherlands) perhaps? He is a far more rabid eurosceptic than most of the GUE-NGL parties though, most of which are calling for modest reform.

Aye true, SP are skeptic but officially not against the EU in totality.
just wants to limit the power the EC has and only allow it's expanse via referendum.

Hrmm that kinda fits

[Shalcker]

States that customarily disregard international agreements they have signed are largely considered rogue states.

Noone "customarily" disregards international agreements - those that do don't make them in the first place and don't view them as valid way to shape their policy.

If certain agreement is seen as (or becomes) unfair everyone has an option to opt out. Unilaterally. That's the point of sovereignty.

If you cannot your country isn't sovereign.

There is a reason the US has never ratified most international treaties (and not even bothered to sign many of them); they do not want to be held to account for breaking that signature.

Yeah, that is one of the options. But not the only one.

Agreements can be beneficial with certain assumptions and stop being such once those assumptions prove to be false - or something else changes.

Like US getting out of INF treaty that it certainly signed up to and ratified. Or, prior to that, ABM treaty. Again, unilaterally.

So, why aren't you interacting with them as rogue state yet? With their total disregard to international agreements?

EU law is not only signed but also always ratified by the individual parliaments.
And as you say, violating those agreements comes with penalties so you accept that penalties will exist. That is what the EU does, impose penalties to members who don't follow agreements.

Again, i'm just saying that same process should be used for withdrawing from ratified agreements.

That is, if it was done by parliament ratification then parliament should be able to withdraw from it; if it was done by government so should government.

That is how it worked - how it still works - around the world.

In fact, threshold for leaving is sometimes (perhaps even more often) lower.

[Sky High]

not terribly up to date on this Brexit deal so if anyone wants to point out which poll option is the one that has this whole shitshow blow up in the faces of the leave camp the most I'd very much appreciate it.

[Crispin]

not terribly up to date on this Brexit deal so if anyone wants to point out which poll option is the one that has this whole shitshow blow up in the faces of the leave camp the most I'd very much appreciate it.

That would be the Hard brexit option

[Gigantique]

No job yet, I need to refresh my language studies there but my husbands Norwegian and he doesn't feel welcome here anymore so we are going back to our other owned home in Norway.

Well, you are both very much welcome over here!

[Dizzeeyooo]

So the options are now confirmed to be either the existing deal + a short extension to implement, revocation, or no deal on the 29th. @Slant wins the prediction competition

Maybe now with a week to go the Labour leadership beyond Corbyn will wake up.

@LeGin Tufnel sadly Nigel Farage's new party seems to be having a few issues

NEW: Leader of Nigel Farage's new Brexit Party, Catherine Blaiklock, resigns after it emerges she sent Islamophobic tweets and re-tweeted far-right activists. The tweets, from a deleted account, were unearthed by @hopenothate researchers.

[Mayhem]

So, any take-back has to be "nuclear option"?

You don't see it as problematic and dangerous?

After all, threshold for passing is a lot lower; asymmetry is pretty clear.

It's not lower, you just ignore that the very same threshold also gives the option of taking back control. It's called negotiation.

So you have two options, the nuclear one or negotiation. Do tell how that is asymmetric?

[Pann]

Looks like it's May's deal or no-deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47636011

[Demolitia]

The mood is hardening in favour of a no deal Brexit.



Every day the news has pictures of European police hospitalising european old age pensioners with batons, as in Catalonia, people realise that if the Brexit vote was to happen in ten years time those same Brussels bully boys could be doing the same to British pensioners in London.

We have had a very very lucky escape and more and more it is looking like no deal is better than any deal.

How is a poll from oct 2017 showing the mood is hardening today ?

[zealo]

How is a poll from oct 2017 showing the mood is hardening today ?

This thread didn't grow to 822 pages overnight, the Dribbles post you're quoting is also from October 2017.

[Pann]

How is a poll from oct 2017 showing the mood is hardening today ?

Er? Dribbles' post is from October 2017...

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To bring a Sky data poll from this year into the thread; 'Brexit: 90% say handling of negotiations is 'national humiliation' - Sky Data poll'

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1108413274830311426

I must confess that I'm slightly worried about the 10% that presumably think things are going okay.

[Slant]

Hey, Thank you, I really appreciate that it's his homeland so I admit I'm abit apprehensive and nervous even though I absolutely adore Norway it's so beautiful.

Don't be nervous. Just dive into it. But... be prepared for the winters. Sure, it doesn't sound scary when someone tells you it's only 3-5 hours of daylight per day, but it's quite different to move there and not escape what some may think of as "eternal darkness interrupted by hazy twilight". Make sure your husband is aware of the problems connected to it, this cannot be understated, you need to pay attention to it.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Looks like it's May's deal or no-deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47636011

Or a long extension. Or cancelling Article 50. This doesn't actually rule out any possibility yet, regardless of what certain individuals are saying. It might mean that May resigns as a result of the next vote, but will that actually break the deadlock in Parliament? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't.

What's a word for an omnishambles so great that it's capable of impacting across the entire multiverse?