Well done New Zealand!

[grexly75]

We have the same rules here. But you have to be pretty naive if you think not a single criminal in Australia has guns.

Oh I know they do have guns see it often enough on the local news here, but as I said in a previous post of mine if someone with ill intent wants a gun bad enough they will find a way to get one..

[Charge me Doctor]

Fairly sure his point wa sthat they are just like you and me and probably won't start to slaughter their own citizens mindlessly. It's not like the government have mind controlled them. Fairly sure that if government declared war on their own citizens and ordered the army to attack, most of the army won't and will turn against the government.

Yeah, i'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that people in military have important reflexes built to do their job, people in military aren't regular people with guns, they are people who are trained to kill using guns.

[Kumorii]

Yeah, i'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that people in military have important reflexes built to do their job, people in military aren't regular people with guns, they are people who are trained to kill using guns.

Oh yeah, definitely. It's also an argument why good people with guns will rarely intervene and prevent a bad guy with guns from doing a crime. They just don't have the same training for the right purpose. It's pretty common for violent criminals to do small hit of drugs(cocain I believe) beforehand to help them go through with their actions for the same reason.

[Spectral]

Our system its built to deter dictators. We do not need our guns rot defend ourselves form our government, if we did, then America is not great and we should go back to the drawing board.

This seems obviously circular.

[Bodakane]

This seems obviously circular.

I didn't;t make it that way, the reality of the situation is circular.

That's what happens when dealing with modern American conservatives, their logic tends to eat itself.

[Linkedblade]

I guess there's also no such thing as 'trees' unless you're talking about these green things in Avatar?

There's a difference "trees" are well defined. "Assault rifle" is not.

[Draco-Onis]

I didn't;t make it that way, the reality of the situation is circular.

That's what happens when dealing with modern American conservatives, their logic tends to eat itself.

Especially when you consider the biggest reason to own a gun are those crazy right wing domestic terrorists and militias around the country.

[Vermented]

Why would a civilian have these types of weapons in the first place?

Probably be course they have no-one else to properly defend them, are paranoid and/or are criminals themselfs.

[ellieg]

Especially when you consider the biggest reason to own a gun are those crazy right wing domestic terrorists and militias around the country.

Biggest reason for me to own a gun is because I live in the ghetto and when the power goes out, certain people like to loot houses.

[Amalaric]

Disarming a population is the first step in enslaving a population.

[Nefastus]

I'm sure all the psychopats, criminals and generally lawbreakers with bad intentions will totally follow this ban and refuse adopting these weapons on their next killing spree.

Yeah, its like that here in Brazil! I mean no one is even allowed to have weapons but criminals have all kind of assault rifles and even anti air cannons lol. These governments always "forget" to notify criminals they are not allowed to have these guns. What a joke.

Its just an excuse to unarm the regular citizen.

[Beazy]

Can someone explain how citizens having commercially bought weapons and ammo, are supposed to deter the world's largest and most advanced military?

Vietnam and Iraq wreck your argument.

[Nefastus]

Disarming a population is the first step in enslaving a population.

Indeed, one just need to see Venezuela. Its all fun and games until your government is raping people protesting against it (and I really mean raping, they do that pretty often when they arrest people protesting against the dictatorship of Maduro).

[Themius]

The second link is telling if you want to look at first world countries.

The United States is a weird outlier that shouldn't really be treated as an instructive data point when it comes to policy. Relative to other wealthy countries, the homicide rate is off the charts, but there's little reason to believe that's primarily driven by the number of firearms, given that there's essentially no historical relationship between the number of firearms (which has climbed without interruption for decades) and the homicide rate (which has trended down, with a couple zig zags). Other wealthy, high gun countries (Switzerland, Canada, Norway, etc.) exhibit no particular proclivity towards high homicide rates.

Instead, the primary drivers of the high American murder rate seems to be a combination of racial demographics and economic inequality. If the driver were firearms, we'd expect the native-born white murder rate to be extraordinarily high given that whites are ~50% more likely to own firearms than blacks and more than twice as likely as Hispanics (Pew data). Instead, American white murder rates are basically in line with the murder rate of countries like the UK.

But anyway, I certainly agree with @Ghostpanther that New Zealand can do what it wants and isn't obligated to share some value that another country may have. Maybe it'll even help them in some sense. I more or less doubt it, but it really doesn't matter what I think on the topic of what New Zealand's laws, which rather reminds me of how much it matters to me what Europeans and others tend to think of American norms, values, and laws.

No, racial demographics isn't playing into violence and that's a rather short sighted thing to say and then follow it with economic inequality.

The latter is what causes violence. Poor mostly urban white areas have near identical violent crime rates at least going by the few studies we have that actually looked at it. Violent crims, shootings, murders, were near identical in poor white urban areas so it appears the issues are poor urban areas. Poor suburbs tend to fair better, say a poor farming community whether it is a black or white farming community. So the idea that racial demographics is playing a part in violence is a rather dangerous line of thought to go down as it sounds as though it says "x demographic is just prone to crime because they're x demographic".

African immigrants regardless of race have lower crime rates even when they're poor so racial demographics isn't playing a part in the violent crime department. Poor Americans in general when in an urban area tend to be violent, and if you're looking to minorities like black and latinos they're mostly in urban areas.

Considering hispanics having strong immigrant ties and knowing that immigrants are less likely to committ crimes in general it isn't surprising there is a lower murder rate. Also entirely depends on which part of the country you're looking at. If you're looking in the North East and at crimes in New York specifically you'll find that latinos do make up a large number perps and are overrepresented.

You wouldn't expect the native-born white murder rate to be high because the station of white people on a general level is better than most people in the country. You wouldn't expect high numbers unless they live in urban areas.

[schwank05]

An "Assault Weapon/ Rifle" is anything used to Assault another person, therefore we better ban all Assault hand guns, Assault shotguns, Assault Bows, Assault Knives. Assault Rifle is a made up term, and just passed around to make all semi-auto riles look scary. Good Luck trying to do anything like this in the US, No one is going to come try to take any guns away from us because most of the military/ police force would be on the citizens side.

- - - Updated - - -

Why would a civilian have these types of weapons in the first place?

The AR-15 is an amazing hunting Rifle, I have one and love it, they are affordable to build and the Ammo is cheap enough. I use mine several times a year when we go hunting. Just used it the other day to take out a Rabid Opossum, The whole Magazine thing is dumb also it just forces you to buy more mags. i have 1 30 round Mag which lasts me about 3-4 weeks in the hunting season. If I had to follow the more strict states and have 10 Round Mags Id just have to have 3 more mags to do the same thing.

[Themius]

An "Assault Weapon/ Rifle" is anything used to Assault another person, therefore we better ban all Assault hand guns, Assault shotguns, Assault Bows, Assault Knives. Assault Rifle is a made up term, and just passed around to make all semi-auto riles look scary. Good Luck trying to do anything like this in the US, No one is going to come try to take any guns away from us because most of the military/ police force would be on the citizens side.

We had a ban... no one really cared and it flew under radar for a while... and then suddenly people were like "they're taking away our guns!" really? When we had them banned was there a slipperly slope? I mean I am alive and was durring the period so where was all the taking away of guns?

The AR15 is not an amazing hunting rifle.

Most hunters don't agree with that and complain that it doesn't have enough stopping power.

Actually one was one talking about it and talked himself into a hole in a debate when he was trying to say the AR15 is a safe gun because it is easy to use and when you kill a buck it sometimes isn't strong enough, which like okay so then what the fuck is it for?

Why doyou need extended magazines? Why does anyway?

If you say it last you weeks clearly you don't need a huge one.

[Itori]

If someone wants those guns there is always a 3rd party willing to sell them, banning them doesnt magically take them off the streets, just takes them away from people who respect and follow the law.

[Themius]

If someone wants those guns there is always a 3rd party willing to sell them, banning them doesnt magically take them off the streets, just takes them away from people who respect and follow the law.

Do you know the law of supply and demand?

[schwank05]

We had a ban... no one really cared and it flew under radar for a while... and then suddenly people were like "they're taking away our guns!" really? When we had them banned was there a slipperly slope? I mean I am alive and was durring the period so where was all the taking away of guns?

The AR15 is not an amazing hunting rifle.

Most hunters don't agree with that and complain that it doesn't have enough stopping power.

Actually one was one talking about it and talked himself into a hole in a debate when he was trying to say the AR15 is a safe gun because it is easy to use and when you kill a buck it sometimes isn't strong enough, which like okay so then what the fuck is it for?

Why doyou need extended magazines? Why does anyway?

If you say it last you weeks clearly you don't need a huge one.

The AR-15 can be chambered in nearly any round. The upper and Magazine just need to be changed. at it's base it's only a .223, but you can build it .308 Winchester which is the most commonly used Rifle round for hunting, it's technically considered an AR-10, but same run. You can build it however you want, you can do a 6.5 Creedmoor, .458 Socom, hell even a .50 Cal Beowulf. The point is it is an extremely versatile rifle that can be, built to the desired specs of the owner.

As far as Mag's when I go Prairie Dog hunting We will easily go through 100+ rounds a day I don't use my Savage Bolt action because it only has a 4 round mag and gets old reloading over and over again. When We go Coyote/ Fox hunting you could burn through 10+ rounds if you get up on 2-3 Foxes in the middle of a section.

Either way they are just playing right into what the Psycho that carried out these attacks wanted.

[ellieg]

If someone wants those guns there is always a 3rd party willing to sell them, banning them doesnt magically take them off the streets, just takes them away from people who respect and follow the law.

Yup. 30 round mags are illegal here. So I went ahead and bought one illegally lol.