Second war Horde vs Third war Scourge

[darkoms]

Who would have won the battle, the Second War Horde led by Orgrim and Gul'dan (provided he did not betray the allies) or the Third War Scourge led by Arthas and Kel'Thuzad?
The battle in the Eastern Kingdoms, but the Scourge forces in Northrend can also help

[KOUNTERPARTS]

the Scourge was an all consuming force of (un)nature , and much like how the 2nd war Horde was more-or-less demon charged (not demon fueled, but demons backing them in the background ) .... so was the Scourge being backed

[Hyral]

With Arthas in the picture definitely the Scourge. For every soldier the Horde loses the Scourge gets another. The only thing that stopped the Scourge was Ner'zhul needing Arthas to come back to Icecrown because of Illidan, otherwise we'd all be speaking Gutterspeak.

Disclaimer: I know Gutterspeak is the forsaken language not the scourge, it's just a joke.

[darkoms]

The Horde has a Dragon Soul, how can the Scourge win?

[Terongor]

There are number of differant possibilities how to war would play out but most possibilities would be scourge wins because of their numbers and how they would gain numbers. Also original death knights might chance sides but red dragons and dragon soul might give horde some advantage.

But as it would be war it might go either side.

[Beerbill Society]

Where does the demons stand? I can see it going both ways.

Oh who I'm kidding, no way the Scourge can lose, we players couldn't defeat it because there always must be a Lich King.

[Terongor]

Where does the demons stand? I can see it going both ways.

Oh who I'm kidding, no way the Scourge can lose, we players couldn't defeat it because there always must be a Lich King.

Well as its the third war lk who is stuck on frozen throne they might pull it of with same kind of ritual which illidan did in tft using the dragon soul as conduict and gul'dan casting it on the frozen throne itself so there are ways but scourge would win in over half of the possibilities.

[azkhane]

The Horde has a Dragon Soul, how can the Scourge win?

Horde had a weak nearly depleted dragon soul, dont confuse It with the one we use against deathwing(directly from the war of the ancient with full power, and overcharged by the aspects). Only the legion have the upper hand against the scourge(Demons cant be resurrected and slave via necromancy)

[McNeil]

I don't see the Horde having a chance. The Scourge in lore is already known as one of the strongest forces on Azeroth (and at the time probably the strongest). They destroyed Lordaeron, Quel'Thalas and Dalaran with ease and every kill they had strengthened their numbers. The Horde would simply try to overwhelm the Scourge with raw power, which is the worst strategy you can have.

[The Stormbringer]

I think it would be a closer fight than most people think, but that the Scourge would win eventually. They have the ability to constantly replenish their forces with every enemy that dies, and that's big.

The Horde however has: Orcs (Peons, Warlocks, Grunts, Raiders), Forest Trolls (Axe Throwers, Berserkers), Ogres (Brutes, Magi), Dragons (Red), and Goblins (Sappers, Zeppelins, Turtles). It's a pretty impressive fighting force, but I still think it would lose.

[Zandalariprelate]

Scourge because of the necromancy ability to fill their ranks quickly but now if Gul'dan were able to summon Archimonde, then things changes

[azkhane]

I think it would be a closer fight than most people think, but that the Scourge would win eventually. They have the ability to constantly replenish their forces with every enemy that dies, and that's big.

The Horde however has: Orcs (Peons, Warlocks, Grunts, Raiders), Forest Trolls (Axe Throwers, Berserkers), Ogres (Brutes, Magi), Dragons (Red), and Goblins (Sappers, Zeppelins, Turtles). It's a pretty impressive fighting force, but I still think it would lose.

Not only enemy fallen ones can be raised, scourge raised long time dead people too, can raise animals, and in need can reraise their fallen troops as skeletons,spirits, or reuse as abomination mats. You cannot win against that unless u can deny that advantage.

[Beerbill Society]

Scourge because of the necromancy ability to fill their ranks quickly but now if Gul'dan were able to summon Archimonde, then things changes

Exactly what Arthas and Kel'thuzad succeed in doing in Reign of Chaos.

Demons (Legion) were behind both of those forces so I'm assuming they wouldn't side with any of those in this specific event.

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Well as its the third war lk who is stuck on frozen throne they might pull it of with same kind of ritual which illidan did in tft using the dragon soul as conduict and gul'dan casting it on the frozen throne itself so there are ways but scourge would win in over half of the possibilities.

They could try to pull it out, the ritual Illidan used something from the Tomb of Sargeras with the guidance of Gul'dan's Skull to perform that ritual, so it's completely possible.

What makes me wonder if Malfurion would try to stop them, I mean simply destroying the Frozen Throne has devastating consequences to Azeroth.

My point is Scourge has way to much plot armor to lose, if they destroy the Frozen Throne, Azeroth is doom and the Scourge will run rampart and destroy everything, if they managed to kill the Lich King the same thing.

Moving a War Campaign across Azeroth to Northrend and replacing the Lich King looks like the only possible way to victory, and even so, I doubt they could pull it out like both the Horde and Alliance of our time, with basically everybody else and with the power of friendship did.

Bear in mind that I'm considering Scourge at its peak, including Sylvanas, the Forsaken, the Fallen Kingdom of Lordaeron, the Nerubian and the troops that possible never died in Archimond attempt to destroy Nordrassil.

Even the full might of the Horde that came across the Dark Portal couldn't handle it alone.

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Now if you added together with the old Horde and Garrosh's Iron Horde I think the could pull it out.

Garrosh was a very successful at his war campaign against the Scourge, he basically was a front man against the Lich King in Icecrown Citadel and had the knowledge of modern weaponry that could hugely benefit the Horde war tactics to handle the massive amount of Undead.

They would still need the demonroids to win but it would be a fair victory.

[Zandalariprelate]

Exactly what Arthas and Kel'thuzad succeed in doing in Reign of Chaos.

Demons (Legion) were behind both of those forces so I'm assuming they wouldn't side with any of those in this specific event.

Unless Ner'zhul has already gave the middle finger to the legion which is the most likely scenario or the paranoid of the dreadlords would had convinced then to intervene.

[darkoms]

Horde had a weak nearly depleted dragon soul, dont confuse It with the one we use against deathwing(directly from the war of the ancient with full power, and overcharged by the aspects). Only the legion have the upper hand against the scourge(Demons cant be resurrected and slave via necromancy)

What kind of nonsense? The Horde had a Dragon Soul as strong as it was during the War of the Ancients, Necros (or Gul'dan, for that matter) can simply shoot a ray and destroy the undead, they can not oppose anything.

[Beerbill Society]

Unless Ner'zhul has already gave the middle finger to the legion which is the most likely scenario or the paranoid of the dreadlords would had convinced then to intervene.

Well Ner'zhul only did that after Archimond failed to bang the tree, anyhow whoever gets the legion support wins.

Dreadlords are a powerful weapon, the massive demons like Infernals would crush armies (orcs or undead don't matter). It would be unfair tbh.

[Doffen]

The scourge would win even with Timmy as Arthas lookalike.

[Oneirophobia]

The Scourge unless the Legion gets reaaaally involved in backing the orcs. Arthas is pretty hard to beat, until you get something like corrupted Aggramar cleaving him in two.

[darkoms]

The Scourge unless the Legion gets reaaaally involved in backing the orcs. Arthas is pretty hard to beat, until you get something like corrupted Aggramar cleaving him in two.

Why does everyone think Arthas is so incredibly powerful? Gul'Dan will destroy him

[azkhane]

What kind of nonsense? The Horde had a Dragon Soul as strong as it was during the War of the Ancients, Necros (or Gul'dan, for that matter) can simply shoot a ray and destroy the undead, they can not oppose anything.

Nope, even thrall stronger shaman of that time imbued with earth aspect power cant control the power of a real dragon soul, you are saying a weak gul dan or a random orc(necros) Will be able to control It?, Second war dragon soul was a weak, depleted and crack down dragon soul, It can only "control" a "single" dragon, red dragons helped the horde so the horde dont hurt their Queen, stop with your headcannon Lore , its common knowledge that the dragon soul of the second war was a shadow of the real one, thats one the reason we go back im time and get the "real" one and not a "fake"

PD: for control i mean subdue, horde never had full control of alextrazsa will