Are socializing features counterproductive?

[Nebron]

Yesterday, I and my friend had a talk about the video games in general. We both play WoW, albeit my friend is on a break. We've been wondering, if it's not some kind of paradox that socializing features that are being implemented into the WoW have actually the opposite effect to was is intended.

Maybe it's just a sentiment, but we both agreed that we miss the idea of looking the group on the chat. There is no denying to the fact, that LFG is a quality of life change. But while you can gain from that, it also takes something away from the game - maybe for good, maybe for worse.

But the thing is, lately there are quite many of those: the "Quest Group Finder", the "Communities", obviously: LFR and LFD.

Would you agree that socializing features are counterproductive? Or maybe you'd love to see more of said features in the game? What's your opinion on that?

If you agree - what would be the solution?

[Khaza-R]

Auto-queues aren't really an anti-socialization feature. The issue is when you group up with complete strangers and have zero reason to have a meaningful interaction with them because likely you will never see them again (CRZ). Its the same reason you don't talk to stranger in real life. Socialization is an investment into building relationships and you simply can't do that unless those relationships have lasting impacts for the players.

[Depakote]

Auto-queues aren't really an anti-socialization feature. The issue is when you group up with complete strangers and have zero reason to have a meaningful interaction with them because likely you will never see them again (CRZ). Its the same reason you don't talk to stranger in real life. Socialization is an investment into building relationships and you simply can't do that unless those relationships have lasting impacts for the players.

Bingo! Such a smart firebird!

[Nebron]

Auto-queues aren't really an anti-socialization feature. The issue is when you group up with complete strangers and have zero reason to have a meaningful interaction with them because likely you will never see them again (CRZ). Its the same reason you don't talk to stranger in real life. Socialization is an investment into building relationships and you simply can't do that unless those relationships have lasting impacts for the players.

Agree, but isn't that true that from lack of the options you have to build the group on your own? Seems to me, like providing so called socializing features kills the incentive for the socialization you have mentioned - investment into building relationships.

"The issue is when you group up with complete strangers and have zero reason to have a meaningful interaction"

When you group up with auto queue, you don't really bother to even say "hi". You just enter the group for world boss at 3%, get the kill, and leave. And it's not only the case for world bosses - it's the case for eveything in the game right now, including, potentially, the most time-consuming feature in the game - world quests.

Apart from the lack of long-term goals which I didn't wanted to bring up in this thread, is there any reason to stay in guild apart from raiding, or high-keys mythic runs? I'm casual, and changed my guild like 4-5 times already. People don't even care to do dungeons, battlegrounds, skirmishes together. Literally N O T H I N G.

[Soon-TM]

I wouldn't call LFD/R socializing features tbh. While they may be a necessary evil, they are exactly the opposite of socializing.

As for possible fixes, I don't think it can be fixed, sadly, since WoW has gone far too down the single player way. Sure, it's more convenient that way, but the social aspects of the game suffer for it.

[Dunachar]

Having automatic group formation tools instead of being forced to spam LFM channels, like in most other games, just makes things easier for us introverts.

I don't really miss the era when you had to spam the chat in a city for an hour even to get a group for the simplest dungeon, only to have some idiot leave for tea just when you had entered. Traveling across the world -- well, that I could live with, as long as you can trust your group. Sadly you usually can't, unless you are with friends or guildies.

[ls-]

Having automatic group formation tools instead of being forced to spam LFM channels, like in most other games, just makes things easier for us introverts.

It makes stuff more bearable for us extroverts as well, spamming in LFG/M for at least 15 mins is sooooooo interesting and productive :P

[Soon-TM]

Having automatic group formation tools instead of being forced to spam LFM channels, like in most other games, just makes things easier for us introverts.

I don't really miss the era when you had to spam the chat in a city for an hour even to get a group for the simplest dungeon, only to have some idiot leave for tea just when you had entered. Traveling across the world -- well, that I could live with, as long as you can trust your group. Sadly you usually can't, unless you are with friends or guildies.

Well, that's why I tend to stick to guild groups, I've been lucky enough to have been in guilds where people were usually nice and helpful

[MoanaLisa]

Socially: Most players are having the game equivalent of several one-night stands every time they play. That's social in a way but not really. It's great at first but over time it can lead to very jaded ideas about other players who are also having their own series of one-night stands. A lot of people aren't even trying to be social in the strict sense; just trying to get something done and move on to the next thing.

After a very long time I've decided for myself that grouping up with random players all the time is a very bad thing for the game generally. Not for the reasons that most people talk about but because over time it makes players less social rather than more. Didn't get what you want in the game from that player? Eh...there are 20 more over there. Personally, I don't play with anyone I don't know.

At this point it's not strictly a Blizzard issue. It's a community issue as well as most players are now in the 'one-night stand' habit and have no idea really how to go about forming a personal community of players they trust and rely on to get group stuff done.

It will be the same in Classic. One-night stands, one right after another and after a short time the 'community' is as likely to be as terrible there as it is in the retail game.

Blizzard could start to understand that the social unit in the game that is best for most people is much less than 10 or 20 people. More like 2-5 and scale their co-operative content accordingly. All of it. Whether they do that through adding NPC bots to groups or scaling down raids so that a couple of people can have the experience I think that would be better than anything that is currently LF(X). Someone will point out that NPC bots aren't social either but that's beside the point. If you are in a good tight group of three people or even playing with a single friend or spouse, then that's all the social that's required. And if someone wants to run that stuff solo, well OK. Do you--while calling for everyone to be more social--really want that person in your group that prefers to play alone? Wouldn't you want people in your group that want to be there instead of feeling like they're forced to be there?

People would prefer to play with people they know. No one in real life says "I've got this thing that I really want/need to do. I had better go collect a dozen total strangers to help me do it." If you understand how bizarre that idea is then the problem with LF(X) becomes very clear.

[kamuimac]

Yesterday, I and my friend had a talk about the video games in general. We both play WoW, albeit my friend is on a break. We've been wondering, if it's not some kind of paradox that socializing features that are being implemented into the WoW have actually the opposite effect to was is intended.

Maybe it's just a sentiment, but we both agreed that we miss the idea of looking the group on the chat. There is no denying to the fact, that LFG is a quality of life change. But while you can gain from that, it also takes something away from the game - maybe for good, maybe for worse.

But the thing is, lately there are quite many of those: the "Quest Group Finder", the "Communities", obviously: LFR and LFD.

Would you agree that socializing features are counterproductive? Or maybe you'd love to see more of said features in the game? What's your opinion on that?

If you agree - what would be the solution?

the solution would be to put "classic is amazing " topics in classic forums instead try to spam general with it.

wait for your precious classic wait for it to fail and them come tell us how forcing people into socializing is good concept

and even then enjoy eveyrybody in classic using oque clone for groups making like they did in illegal servers.

because people "love socializing" - tip they do not.

the best proof is how games pushing playing with random people thrive while mmorpgs fail.

most people dont care who they play with as long as they have "illusion " of other people playing.

yes some will look for "artificial" friendships in game but real friendships are rare and dont really happen (with few obvious exeptions)

[Torvald]

I would actually say that things like the LFG tool are anti-socialization features, just as LFR and LFD and other auto-queue features would be, because it makes it easier to form groups, you're able to filter for what you need, link with strangers for quick, shared goals easily, etc.

Socialization - real socialization - in games is 99% born of necessity. The great difficulty of forming groups back in the Vanilla era, having to message trade chat only for half a group to come together and then fall apart when you ran out of time, going into dungeons only for one person to have to leave or disconnect or rage quit, and then being unable to complete it.... those things created powerful incentives to keep track of the people who stuck with you, performed well, or at least were wanting to get the same thing done. That meant growing your friends list, taking the time to message them, and often being stuck in a party with them for a long time waiting to fill up.

Another way to think of it is this: Does your feature increase or decrease the need for a player to make their OWN contacts in the game in order to get things done? If it does increase the need, it's a socialization feature. If it decreases the need, it's an anti-socializing feature. WoW was, at least since WotLK, on a very steady path of de-socialization - division of raiding content into multiple modes (lack of diverse modes for raids meant that content was more exclusive, which was a factor in raiding guild recruitment), then LFD, then LFR (which completed the trek of content no longer being part of the reward for organized raiding), CRZ, then massive improvements to the premade finder. I'd say they generally completed their de-socializing make-over by the time mass improvements were made to the pre-made finder, though little things happened afterwards (for instance, the end of "master looter" as a loot mode for raids).

Understand though, I'm not saying I think we should undo all that. Just that whenever Blizzard is trying to figure out what does and doesn't socialize people, the answer is: "Does this increase or decrease the necessity of the player making their OWN connections." Any tool that makes connections FOR them, whether the extreme form of an automated queue tool or the less extreme form of a cross-server group finder tool to filter out people based on various criteria, reduces socialization.

I'm honestly not sure there's a way for Blizzard to bring back socialization. This was a choice they made - and it may even have been the right choice - but they accepted these trade-offs long ago, and their roots are too deep to safely undo it in a wide way for the playerbase in general. WoW still has plenty of socialization in it, but it mostly only exists now in niche areas (like RP servers, I assume), or at very high levels of play (high rated PvP, mythic raiding, very high mythic+ dungeon key teams). The bulk of the playerbase will be auto-queued with strangers in things like LFR or join groups in the premade finder getting various easy things done that result in quiet, quick runs of various pieces of content.

[Nebron]

the solution would be to put "classic is amazing " topics in classic forums instead try to spam general with it.

wait for your precious classic wait for it to fail and them come tell us how forcing people into socializing is good concept

and even then enjoy eveyrybody in classic using oque clone for groups making like they did in illegal servers.

because people "love socializing" - tip they do not.

the best proof is how games pushing playing with random people thrive while mmorpgs fail.

most people dont care who they play with as long as they have "illusion " of other people playing.

yes some will look for "artificial" friendships in game but real friendships are rare and dont really happen (with few obvious exeptions)

Not really sure why you got so defensive. I do play other games. I do wait for Classic and I do think it will fail. I decided to put the thread there instead of classic thread since it has nothing to do with Classic in the first place. I'm talking about the MMO games in general, while using the WoW example, since i write on WoW focused forums...

From what I understand, you would not change anything at all, you juggle with all those arogant examples despising the Classic, but my intention wasn't any attack on people opinions. I simply asked people for their honest opinion. And from what I read, yours isn't really productive.

MMO game is about socializing; it is about healthy community - maybe that's the better statement. Your analysis of MMORPGs failing is embarassing; and games that push playing with random people thrive? But those are definitely two different genres I have clearly no idea how you could compare those? Not to mention that in PvP games, those teams that are made of said video games friends do better on average. And the side-effect of random people playing together is the toxicity.

[kamuimac]

Not really sure why you got so defensive. I do play other games. I do wait for Classic and I do think it will fail. I decided to put the thread there instead of classic thread since it has nothing to do with Classic in the first place. I'm talking about the MMO games in general, while using the WoW example, since i write on WoW focused forums...

From what I understand, you would not change anything at all, you juggle with all those arogant examples despising the Classic, but my intention wasn't any attack on people opinions. I simply asked people for their honest opinion. And from what I read, yours isn't really productive.

MMO game is about socializing; it is about healthy community - maybe that's the better statement. Your analysis of MMORPGs failing is embarassing; and games that push playing with random people thrive? But those are definitely two different genres I have clearly no idea how you could compare those? Not to mention that in PvP games, those teams that are made of said video games friends do better on average. And the side-effect of random people playing together is the toxicity.

There is diffefence between forced socialisation and wanted socialisation. . you support forced one. Something akin to mother taking her kid to birthsday party of the most unliked kid in class just because she sees personal gains and profits. While kid hates every minute of being there. Its a lie that people want to make friends on games. Usualy those who do dont have ones irl so ofc they would support others being fake friends with them because just like they cannot find friends irl they cant do IT in game and want Blizzard to fix their own issues

[zhero]

Yesterday, I and my friend had a talk about the video games in general. We both play WoW, albeit my friend is on a break. We've been wondering, if it's not some kind of paradox that socializing features that are being implemented into the WoW have actually the opposite effect to was is intended.

Maybe it's just a sentiment, but we both agreed that we miss the idea of looking the group on the chat. There is no denying to the fact, that LFG is a quality of life change. But while you can gain from that, it also takes something away from the game - maybe for good, maybe for worse.

But the thing is, lately there are quite many of those: the "Quest Group Finder", the "Communities", obviously: LFR and LFD.

Would you agree that socializing features are counterproductive? Or maybe you'd love to see more of said features in the game? What's your opinion on that?

If you agree - what would be the solution?

the current group finder tool isn't a socializing feature, its an automation feature, and it's implementation removed the socializing group finder tool

[zlygork]

Socially: Most players are having the game equivalent of several one-night stands every time they play. That's social in a way but not really. It's great at first but over time it can lead to very jaded ideas about other players who are also having their own series of one-night stands. A lot of people aren't even trying to be social in the strict sense; just trying to get something done and move on to the next thing.

After a very long time I've decided for myself that grouping up with random players all the time is a very bad thing for the game generally. Not for the reasons that most people talk about but because over time it makes players less social rather than more. Didn't get what you want in the game from that player? Eh...there are 20 more over there. Personally, I don't play with anyone I don't know.

At this point it's not strictly a Blizzard issue. It's a community issue as well as most players are now in the 'one-night stand' habit and have no idea really how to go about forming a personal community of players they trust and rely on to get group stuff done.

It will be the same in Classic. One-night stands, one right after another and after a short time the 'community' is as likely to be as terrible there as it is in the retail game.

Blizzard could start to understand that the social unit in the game that is best for most people is much less than 10 or 20 people. More like 2-5 and scale their co-operative content accordingly. All of it. Whether they do that through adding NPC bots to groups or scaling down raids so that a couple of people can have the experience I think that would be better than anything that is currently LF(X). Someone will point out that NPC bots aren't social either but that's beside the point. If you are in a good tight group of three people or even playing with a single friend or spouse, then that's all the social that's required. And if someone wants to run that stuff solo, well OK. Do you--while calling for everyone to be more social--really want that person in your group that prefers to play alone? Wouldn't you want people in your group that want to be there instead of feeling like they're forced to be there?

People would prefer to play with people they know. No one in real life says "I've got this thing that I really want/need to do. I had better go collect a dozen total strangers to help me do it." If you understand how bizarre that idea is then the problem with LF(X) becomes very clear.

Pretty much agree with all of this, I know my guild would be ecstastic if we could 5 man raids

[Big Thanks]

From my experience in other games.

For a game to be "social" it needs to be MANDATORY DESIGN

If a game gives the option to be anti-social people will always pick that path (most of the time).

I firmly believe in this.

[callipygoustp]

Games are, and always will be, as social as you, the player, are.

[Big Thanks]

Games are, and always will be, as social as you, the player, are.

Not if its mandatory design to be social

[horbindr]

communities could have been good for social stuff in this game if they actually put some effort in. they really need to put in a good, actually working, tool to find guilds/communities of likeminded players.

other then that, in this day and age positive social interactions in pugs or between strangers will only happen if there is a carrot of some sort.

[Big Thanks]

communities could have been good for social stuff in this game if they actually put some effort in. they really need to put in a good, actually working, tool to find guilds/communities of likeminded players.

other then that, in this day and age positive social interactions in pugs or between strangers will only happen if there is a carrot of some sort.

Dont fool yourself

The ONLY way to make people social is by mandatory design.

Ive played other games where they give you 10000000000 options to be social BUT they have a random matcmaking system at the same time.
And guess what


People pick the auto match making all the time and anonymity.