1. #16501
    Oh god, the right wing spin is going off the rails here. I mean, it would have regardless of what Mueller said, but it's always fun to see it in action. They seem to skip over the fact that Mueller didn't find that collusion didn't occur at all, only that attempts to collude were unsuccessful; it also did not find that obstruction did not occur, just that it wasn't provable beyond a reasonable doubt because, as all obstruction cases tend to go, it's near impossible to prove intent.

    I wasn't expecting much else from the report, as I've said from the start. Trump's not an evil asshole. He's a stupid asshole. He's not an evil mastermind who spun wizardry and intrigue. He's a dumb shit who did illegal things because he was too stupid to know to do otherwise. He'll probably face action from the various states on those counts, but for the scope of Mueller's probe, this isn't too surprising. Even this thread mostly worked around the idea of "Mueller will turn up something not directly related to the case that shows Trump for the shitlord he is." And to be fair, that happened, but Mueller decided it wasn't his job to deal with it.

  2. #16502
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It would be simpler, alas, if there were fewer investigations. But since possible crimes lurk everywhere there will be as many as there need to be. For myself I have said from way back in the beginning that if Trump were to be brought down it would be for money laundering and it would be a New York state indictment. I haven't changed my mind about that.
    Eh, I don't think money laundering would garner an impeachment. Yeah, he's probably done it, but it's not really a high crime or misdemeanor unless there's an obstruction charge related to it or unless he was actively being blackmailed over it (and then, again, whatever he's being blackmailed to do would probably be the high crime or misdemeanor). It's despicable. It should prevent him from being re-elected. But I put that in the same category as clinton's perjury: a crime, but not worth removing a president over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  3. #16503
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    I probably screwed up my wording, sorry about that. I'm not that well versed in all the legal stuff, I'm actually quite casual when it comes to politics, but I'm trying to learn some.
    You should be glad you don't know much about politics. Its core laid bare is just tribalism. Picture cavemen fighting but with words this time and it's because they think differently to each other.

    You shouldn't get into it because all it does to you is draws you into a well of hate and negativity. Before long you'll find your own particular tribe to fight for and you'll become fanatical like the posters in this thread. Just observe and watch how human nature gets the best of them, use that as inspiration not to become like them.

  4. #16504
    Warchief Mekkle's Avatar
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    I think we just all need to reel ourselves in a bit, a little too soon to be biting each throats. Their is likely more details coming soon for better or worse.

  5. #16505
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

    And then this fuck gets nothing for trolling like this lol.
    As I understand it, trolling is defined as posting something you don't really mean in order to stir up trouble.

    Trust me, I meant what I said.
    "Independence forever!" --- President John Adams
    "America is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --- President John Quincy Adams
    "Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  6. #16506
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Eh, I don't think money laundering would garner an impeachment.
    I didn't say it would but you are not wrong to call out what I wrote as imprecise.

    I think it will possibly land his ass in criminal court the day after he walks out of the White House. If indictments do come down they are likely to be sealed and then unsealed on January 21, 2020 if he loses. 2024 if he doesn't. The family itself will have no protection.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #16507
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    I think we just all need to reel ourselves in a bit, a little too soon to be biting each throats. Their is likely more details coming soon for better or worse.
    Welcome to American politics. It's been like this for a long time before Trump came around. Trump was just so polarizing that it seems like it only started with him. It didn't. The American political climate has been toxic for years, and the media does a good job of keeping people mad at each other and not at the real people making the US a corrupt shit show.

  8. #16508
    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    As I understand it, trolling is defined as posting something you don't really mean in order to stir up trouble.

    Trust me, I meant what I said.
    Can just be posting specifically to antagonize others. Doesn't matter whether or not you mean it.

    Here's the rules your previous post would fall under:

    Making non-constructive posts
    Causing disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that ruin the thread, insulting other posters
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  9. #16509
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Can just be posting specifically to antagonize others. Doesn't matter whether or not you mean it.

    Here's the rules your previous post would fall under:

    Making non-constructive posts
    Causing disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that ruin the thread, insulting other posters
    Thanks. I'm not fully versed in all internet terminology. Learned something new today.
    "Independence forever!" --- President John Adams
    "America is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --- President John Quincy Adams
    "Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  10. #16510
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I didn't say it would but you are not wrong to call out what I wrote as imprecise.

    I think it will possibly land his ass in criminal court the day after he walks out of the White House. If indictments do come down they are likely to be sealed and then unsealed on January 21, 2020 if he loses. 2024 if he doesn't. The family itself will have no protection.
    Eh, I would think the family's would also be sealed because the prosecution would expect a pardon, but I don't actually know if that would be a legal reason to postpone trial, so who knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  11. #16511
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Welcome to American politics. It's been like this for a long time before Trump came around. Trump was just so polarizing that it seems like it only started with him. It didn't. The American political climate has been toxic for years, and the media does a good job of keeping people mad at each other and not at the real people making the US a corrupt shit show.
    Trump has been quite brilliant in casting the investigation as something out of a TV show. It's worked well for him and mainstream media is willing to play along since few of them are really interested in either truth or a resolution that will make the story end.

    Prosecutors don't care one way or another about that if they have the means to go to trial. James Fallows did a piece on CBS This Morning today about how judicial reality is different from the instant-turn-and-resolve plot points on most crime shows. It's a good piece.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  12. #16512
    Judiciary Committee is going through the procedural stuff to call in Barr, as Nadler claimed hours ago, while the House Intel Committee is now set to call in Mueller.

    We're not done yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  13. #16513
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Eh, I would think the family's would also be sealed because the prosecution would expect a pardon, but I don't actually know if that would be a legal reason to postpone trial, so who knows.
    He can't pardon anyone if it comes from the New York State AG.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  14. #16514
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Judiciary Committee is going through the procedural stuff to call in Barr, as Nadler claimed hours ago, while the House Intel Committee is now set to call in Mueller.

    We're not done yet.
    Of course we're not. If Trumpkins thought this was just going to be over based on 1 person's interpretation, they're kidding themselves.

  15. #16515
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    He can't pardon anyone if it comes from the New York State AG.
    For some reason my mind always glosses over this WRT his kids but not trump himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  16. #16516
    Herald of the Titans Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    And the fact that what became the Steele dossier was originally paid for by Jeb Bush.
    But Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush are part of the same lizard tribe.
    “You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass." - President Donald Trump

  17. #16517
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    For some reason my mind always glosses over this WRT his kids but not trump himself.
    Maybe he'll run for Governor when he's done in D.C. Ha ha.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  18. #16518
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubermensch View Post
    You should be glad you don't know much about politics. Its core laid bare is just tribalism. Picture cavemen fighting but with words this time and it's because they think differently to each other.

    You shouldn't get into it because all it does to you is draws you into a well of hate and negativity. Before long you'll find your own particular tribe to fight for and you'll become fanatical like the posters in this thread. Just observe and watch how human nature gets the best of them, use that as inspiration not to become like them.
    Unfortunately I'm into politics, just not nearly to the same level as most people here, you could see that by looking at my posting history which has a lot of posts in the politic section but have many gaps where I go days and sometimes weeks without making any posts. I mostly got interested in politics because of the healthcare issues in America and how they're a hot button issue politically.

  19. #16519
    After reading the muller report i wonder how many will say sorry to trump. No collusion just a witchhunt.... #FeelsBadMan

  20. #16520
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    To anyone contemplating replying to the multitude of... pro-Trump Redhats, remember, it is the equivalent of playing chess with a pigeon: no matter what you say or do, the pigeon will knock over pieces, shit on the board, and strut around convinced it has won.

    Simultaneously, it is important that their emitted mass of Tauren feces not be allowed to stand unchallenged - American has enough Orwellian reality-twisting going on without letting rank nonsense stand as discourse.

    What is needed is exactly what the US government will be most reluctant to provide: a complete release of nigh-on everything, including material that risks revealing sources and methods. When the Republican party nominated and then elected Trump, they put an extremely shady individual into a position of immense power and exposure - he failed the Caesar's wife test from the moment his campaign left port. If this is to be put to rest - if it is able to be put to rest, there needs to be a full and open accounting so that everyone can look at the evidence and go, "Yeah, he may be a stupid SOB, and I think he's wrong and dangerous and unstable, but he's not compromised, and he's not a traitor". The problem with that scenario, of course, is that Trump is fatally compromised, and that shining light into the darkness of his dealings, even if limited to the last decade, will fatally expose both him and the GOP's manifold malfeasance, even if there truly is no 'collusion' (beyond signing deals and looking for dirt on his opponent, during the campaign, with Russian agents).

    There aren't any really good scenarios in the foreseeable near future - the GOP cannot truly clear Trump, but a Democratic or other investigation will be bitter and indecisive, but not conducting such investigations will be allowing the already dangerous low bar for acceptable corruption to sink to levels that will be fatally toxic for the body politic. I expect what will happen is that both sides will try to dance a knife-edge: the GOP will try to convince everyone a thorough investigation has been performed while simultaneously allowing as little light in as possible, while the Democrats will do their best to convincingly expose something without overplaying their hand (the odds for them pulling that off are decent, but whether the disinformation stream will result in anyone caring will be a different matter), and it will all happen while the United States, as an entity, becomes more fragmented and even less functional.
    Last edited by ringpriest; 2019-03-25 at 02:14 AM.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

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