Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Somewhatconcerned]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.

[Toppy]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.

How's it feel being a woke independent?

"Both sides hurrr"

[Adam Jensen]

After reading the muller report i wonder how many will say sorry to trump. No collusion just a witchhunt.... #FeelsBadMan

Considering no one out side of the DOJ has read it and that what we have is only Barr's report on the report . . .

[MoanaLisa]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

That part is well put.

If I were advising a candidate looking to run in 2020 I'd be telling them this afternoon that running against the Republicans on their proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid would get them a lot further than trying to parse out the legalities of Mueller's investigation. I'm quite sure that Mueller has done his work honorably. There are other things out there that may help that fictional candidate but for a certainty running on issues like healthcare and climate are going to help them a lot more. There may even be a recession by then since it's still a year-and-a-half away. Running on D.C.'s obsessions is a good way to lose.

[Sormine]

That part is well put.

If I were advising a candidate looking to run in 2020 I'd be telling them this afternoon that running against the Republicans on their proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid would get them a lot further than trying to parse out the legalities of Mueller's investigation. I'm quite sure that Mueller has done his work honorably. There are other things out there that may help that fictional candidate but for a certainty running on issues like healthcare and climate are going to help them a lot more. There may even be a recession by then since it's still a year-and-a-half away. Running on D.C.'s obsessions is a good way to lose.

Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.

[Laserknees]

Considering no one out side of the DOJ has read it and that what we have is only Barr's report on the report . . .

he directly quotes the report in his letter though

[akris15]

Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.

No they haven't (which is what they are supposed to do). Still Congress needs to be shown the full report in closed session with Mueller bring brought in so this isn't a show trial. There will probably need to be some concerns addressed but there needs to be a mostly full report that is endorsed by Mueller released to the public. Anything less than that will appear like a Whitewash.

[MoanaLisa]

Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.

No they haven't but there will be an immense amount of pressure to do so now. My advice as a fictional adviser was looking forward to tomorrow and beyond. Turn the questions toward what's important to potential constituents. Don't bother trying to convince Trump supporters to support you. Go after the 60% aggressively.

[MAGAmobile]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.

Its like you forgot the 2018 midterms happened, or something. That aside, what do you actually want? Taking lumps and moving on from what, exactly? Wanting to move on when congress hasn't even seen the full report? Are you not even interested in what is in the report, regardless of what comes of it? No one expected it to remove Trump. The report isn't even a focal point for most presidential candidates right now. Shutting down all other investigations that have come as a result of this? People have already gone to prison as a result of Mueller's investigation, and now you want to shut down other investigations because this one didn't get Trump? That just seems..defeatist. You'd have more of a point if no indictments took place at all.

[akris15]

Its like you forgot the 2018 midterms happened, or something. That aside, what do you actually want? Taking lumps and moving on from what, exactly? Wanting to move on when congress hasn't even seen the full report? Are you not even interested in what is in the report, regardless of what comes of it? No one expected it to remove Trump. The report isn't even a focal point for most presidential candidates right now. Shutting down all other investigations that have come as a result of this? People have already gone to prison as a result of Mueller's investigation, and now you want to shut down other investigations because this one didn't get Trump? That just seems..defeatist. You'd have more of a point if no indictments took place at all.

Its boggling my mind why Trump supporters are like "this is a waste of time". Like that is the absolute worst talking point you can use right now. What they should say is, thank you Mueller to root out the corruptions and showing that our president isn't a Russian agent while removing those on who team that would sell out the country. Now its going to looks extremely bad later if we do find there were some really grey issues where in legalize its shady but you can't do anything because its beyond questionable doubt...

- - - Updated - - -

We at the CIA already have the report.

Yeah...I would delete that comment...if you are that really not good OPSEC even if its on a gaming forum...

[Mighty Tim]

Its boggling my mind why Trump supporters are like "this is a waste of time". Like that is the absolute worst talking point you can use right now. What they should say is, thank you Mueller to root out the corruptions and showing that our president isn't a Russian agent while removing those on who team that would sell out the country. Now its going to looks extremely bad later if we do find there were some really grey issues where in legalize its shady but you can't do anything because its beyond questionable doubt...

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah...I would delete that comment...if you are that really not good OPSEC even if its on a gaming forum...

It isnt really trump supporters... you are trying to get people fired up over something most people assume was made up years ago at this point. Sure is neat but its like being told you can dip your banana in yogurt. It isnt exactly a revelation.

[Smitzelplix]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.

The report should at least be made public and this is something Democrats and a lot of Republicans agree on. Remember there was that 420 vote in the house recently.

[Sormine]

No they haven't but there will be an immense amount of pressure to do so now. My advice as a fictional adviser was looking forward to tomorrow and beyond. Turn the questions toward what's important to potential constituents. Don't bother trying to convince Trump supporters to support you. Go after the 60% aggressively.

I guess we're both speculating but I would be shocked to see any of the candidates harp on this in any way especially during the primaries when Trump should essentially be outside the spoken topics.

[Ubermensch]

Unfortunately I'm into politics, just not nearly to the same level as most people here, you could see that by looking at my posting history which has a lot of posts in the politic section but have many gaps where I go days and sometimes weeks without making any posts. I mostly got interested in politics because of the healthcare issues in America and how they're a hot button issue politically.

Healthcare issues are understandable but still won't be solved by debating and bickering about it.

[badzerath]

Remember even if we know that witches can't float - if this witch in particular can float doesn't mean she isn't a witch....

Edit: Also, prosecutors don't exonerate anyone they only prosecute cases based on available evidence.

[akris15]

It isnt really trump supporters... you are trying to get people fired up over something most people assume was made up years ago at this point. Sure is neat but its like being told you can dip your banana in yogurt. It isnt exactly a revelation.

For something made up there they found a fair amount of corruption and indictments along the way. This is what I don't get why are Trump Supporters in this thread thinking so small by saying "Waste of Time...nothing burger!". Like the talking point is set up not to age well...

[Endus]

As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

Who's demanding the Mueller investigation be started up again? I have literally not seen that from anyone.

If you're referring to other investigations, such as those by the SDNY, those don't have anything to do with Mueller's team, and are into matters Mueller wasn't investigating and did not have the mandate to look into, so there's no reason to take issue with them moving forward.

If you were under the impression that the Mueller investigation was going to put an end to all investigations into Trump and co, then you never really understood what his team was looking into or what the boundaries were on that investigation. Mueller's team wrapping up was never going to be the end of this. It's a first step.

Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what?

If nothing else, the rest of the world is watching the USA pretty closely, and stuff like this is giving us very little reason to put our faith into a nation that used to be one of our staunchest allies. It's exposing the rot and how deeply it's set. That Trump won't be removed is more evidence towards that.

Someone squeaky clean being elected won't eliminate the rot that's been exposed; that's just slapping a new coat of paint over it. And if the USA isn't going to burn that rot out and clean their shit up, they can't be trusted as an ally, and need to start being seen as a potential major international threat.

And this isn't just politics. This rot goes deep. It's a rot in the American people, in the American ideal. You're learning that you really aren't the people you were striving to be, not the leaders of the free world, not the bastion of democracy and freedom that the whole world can see as a shining example of those ideals. That's over. Not ending, it's already done. You've lost that shine. And you did it to yourselves.

[Aehl]

This is basically you saying that even if there's "clear and convincing" proof the president conspired with a foreign power to undermine our democracy, we shouldn't do anything about it.

There isnt any proof.

Muellers report says so.

[badzerath]

For something made up there they found a fair amount of corruption and indictments along the way. This is what I don't get why are Trump Supporters in this thread thinking so small by saying "Waste of Time...nothing burger!". Like the talking point is set up not to age well...

The president's rights as an American citizen were violated when a fraudulent investigation was launched on the false premise that he and his campaign had colluded with Russia off of manufactured evidence.

Most American politicians and their associates would struggle to come out completely clean in the same circumstance unless they have the last name Clinton and their staff is given immunity before they answer any questions.

[Merkava]

It would be simpler, alas, if there were fewer investigations. But since possible crimes lurk everywhere there will be as many as there need to be. For myself I have said from way back in the beginning that if Trump were to be brought down it would be for money laundering and it would be a New York state indictment. I haven't changed my mind about that. SDNY will have things to say too. The speculation was that anything Mueller came across that was a serious non-political crime would be shuffled over to that office. Don Jr., Jared, Ivanka...they should all be concerned about both the state AG and SDNY. Trump can try to pardon himself out of anything federal but the NYAG's office is something he can't avoid.

Agree on all counts. Thanks.