Captain Marvel [2019]

[Anastacy]

This thread has surpassed the Infinity War Thread. I don't know how but it did. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ity-War/page94

Arguing back and forth over feminism, that’s how.

[MrLachyG]

Arguing back and forth over feminism, that’s how.

considering how the movie is devoid of any feminism that is amusing

[Anastacy]

considering how the movie is devoid of any feminism that is amusing

I wouldn’t say there isn’t ANY “feminism” in the movie, but certainly not to the extent all the man babies were biting their nails fretting over.

[Skulltaker]

It's kind of weird that SHIELD thing, I mean their name is already "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division" in Iron Man 1, they just don't abbreviate it until the end. Presumably as a very slight reveal? I'm just going to put that one down as a joke, their name is already SHIELD.

I assume it was more a wink wink towards those who know the comics and what SHIELD stands for, I went into Iron Man not having read a single Comic Book in my life, and when Coulson said 'Just call us Shield' one guy in the cinema chuckled, and the rest went... "who?"

I'm okay with that. Winks to those who are familiar with the material are fine.

What I am wondering is how fast Fury must have climbed the ranks in Shield. He goes from Level 3 access in the early to mid 90es to director of Shield in... what, 10 years?

[MrLachyG]

I assume it was more a wink wink towards those who know the comics and what SHIELD stands for, I went into Iron Man not having read a single Comic Book in my life, and when Coulson said 'Just call us Shield' one guy in the cinema chuckled, and the rest went... "who?"

I'm okay with that. Winks to those who are familiar with the material are fine.

What I am wondering is how fast Fury must have climbed the ranks in Shield. He goes from Level 3 access in the early to mid 90es to director of Shield in... what, 10 years?

he probably did some impressive work; we know he rescued Alexander Pierce at some point and while we don't know what rank Pierce was he did seem older than Fury so probably higher rank and so could've fast tracked him to the Director post. either that, or Pierce used his HYDRA contacts, legitimately or otherwise, to make sure that Fury got the top job because Pierce could control Fury somewhat.

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I wouldn’t say there isn’t ANY “feminism” in the movie, but certainly not to the extent all the man babies were biting their nails fretting over.

the closest they got, at least in my opinion, was a small montage of Danvers struggling to do stuff and persevering and the song "Just A Girl". so literally nothing

[Anastacy]

the closest they got, at least in my opinion, was a small montage of Danvers struggling to do stuff and persevering and the song "Just A Girl". so literally nothing

Eh. There was also the “cockpit” line, and the subversion of the Mar-Vell reveal (Mar-Vell is male in the comics so, admittedly, this hit the comic fans most). And then all the stuff about a woman having to control herself (a running trope in fiction [especially superhero comics] being that women with incredible power go crazy and villainous).

Again, none of this hits you in the head with a sledgehammer. Definitely tamer than what certain folk were clutching their pearls about.

[Mormolyce]

Also in the comics Adam Warlock had a significant role, and he's not been introduced or even cast to my knowledge. Also Thanos was doing it because he wanted to bone Death instead of overpopulation. Things might go differently.

He was teased in the end credits of Guardians vol 2. But yeah, I doubt he'll be involved.

They name-check comics events and capture some of their spirit but the details are all different. Comics Civil War was almost nothing like MCU Civil War for example. I expect they'll do their own thing in Endgame with only the occasional reference.

Are you joking? Captain Marvel at the end of the film clearly surpasses BY FAR anything Thor has ever done. You're just not being honest if you're saying otherwise.

Debateable I suppose. Thor took a collapsing star to the face in Infinity War.

[Svifnymr]

What I am wondering is how fast Fury must have climbed the ranks in Shield. He goes from Level 3 access in the early to mid 90es to director of Shield in... what, 10 years?

Was wandering youtube videos and there was one that mentioned that it was called SHIELD by Zola in Winter Soldier and Pym in old Antman. The other thing of course being in Winter Soldier when they look at a picture of two-eyed Fury being sworn in as director. Could have been one of the fakes though, maybe he just didn't use the eyepatch until later. But of course, his ruined eye is there for the retina scan I think, so can't have been popped out.

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Debateable I suppose. Thor took a collapsing star to the face in Infinity War.

The problem with any comic/ movie "who is bestest" is that they all have a long history of "he can do whatever the plot requires". Take the power of a sun, can't take a taser, gotcha.

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the closest they got, at least in my opinion, was a small montage of Danvers struggling to do stuff and persevering and the song "Just A Girl". so literally nothing

I think the problem with those scenes were just that the people were assholes. If we were at a go cart race and one went flipping over and over out of the track, I don't know any situation where only one person would run over to check on her and instead just berate her for being a girl. It was just soooo dumb. I'm really not sure what the rope stuff was supposed to mean, I'm sure military guys would resent a girl in the forces in that timeframe, but I'm equally sure if she fell from that height she'd be broken and they'd be loading her on a stretcher and then telling some other official about how "see, this is why women can't be in the military" rather than standing to the side watching her stand up. Very dumb!

The piloting stuff at least made sense. "It sucks that they won't let women fly anything but test planes" may not be accurate (why would they let women fly test planes if they thought they were worse than men anyway?) but it fit the story. Hell, for all I know, women did fly a lot of test planes back then.

And of course, I'm 87% sure they added the "smile" motorcycle guy just as a "fuck you" to folks that complained her performance in the first trailer was flat. It's not a big deal, really, and the dumb part of that part is more that Fury teleports ahead of her with the only clue being that he thinks she stole a motorcycle...

[LilSaihah]

Debateable I suppose. Thor took a collapsing star to the face in Infinity War.

Captain Marvel is a star.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

And of course, I'm 87% sure they added the "smile" motorcycle guy just as a "fuck you" to folks that complained her performance in the first trailer was flat. It's not a big deal, really, and the dumb part of that part is more that Fury teleports ahead of her with the only clue being that he thinks she stole a motorcycle...

Doubt it, I've heard plenty of women complain about being told to smile, that's not exactly exclusive to criticism of Brie Larsson.

[Svifnymr]

Doubt it, I've heard plenty of women complain about being told to smile, that's not exactly exclusive to criticism of Brie Larsson.

Hey, I did grant there is a 13% chance it was a coincidence and not one of the reshoots after the first trailer. I didn't try to match hair or anything, but it is a self-contained scene with no other stars, so would be easy. In either case, they did not make a distinction between trolls and fans (in the press reactions), so the snub fits in with the press at the time.

[Mteq]

i actually quite enjoye the movie. it's no winter soldier but far better then black panther or iron man 3.

while only 50%-ish in space i did get a very star trek or star wars feeling at some points, while i never had that with GotG and that thats 100% space.

[Halicia]

Doubt it, I've heard plenty of women complain about being told to smile, that's not exactly exclusive to criticism of Brie Larsson.

Complaining is one thing, defense for a crime ? Not really.

The funny thing here is that it reinforces gender prejudices. If you switch the genders, I don't think anyone would have laughed at Thor stealing some random woman's vehicle simply for being asked to flex or smile... but make a woman steal a vehicle and its a joke... especially if he's a big strong manly man. Because what kind of man is so "weak" that he can get beat by a woman ?

So yeah, if you wanna push for women's equality, maybe stop making the joke depend on the stereotype that they're weak ?

[Sunseeker]

Complaining is one thing, defense for a crime ? Not really.

The funny thing here is that it reinforces gender prejudices. If you switch the genders, I don't think anyone would have laughed at Thor stealing some random woman's vehicle simply for being asked to flex or smile... but make a woman steal a vehicle and its a joke... especially if he's a big strong manly man. Because what kind of man is so "weak" that he can get beat by a woman ?

So yeah, if you wanna push for women's equality, maybe stop making the joke depend on the stereotype that they're weak ?

Dude, heroes steal all kinda of shit all the time and get away with it "because they're heroes" even when they're not openly heroing.

But I don't hear anyone complaining about Iron Man throwing random cars on the streets at bad guys.

Folks are REALLY reaching to complain about this movie.

[Endus]

Complaining is one thing, defense for a crime ? Not really.

The funny thing here is that it reinforces gender prejudices. If you switch the genders, I don't think anyone would have laughed at Thor stealing some random woman's vehicle simply for being asked to flex or smile... but make a woman steal a vehicle and its a joke... especially if he's a big strong manly man. Because what kind of man is so "weak" that he can get beat by a woman ?

So yeah, if you wanna push for women's equality, maybe stop making the joke depend on the stereotype that they're weak ?

You're inserting a whole bunch of nonsense that isn't in the film.

That sequence is a bit of a nod to the Terminator. Futuristic person who just landed on Earth, biker sasses them, they take their stuff. It was about a shithead getting a comeuppance for being a shithead, the only way gender was inserted was in the particular manner he was a shithead.

[tehealadin]

Now, don't get me wrong- I don't like on the nose gender activism in movies. It usually requires women being almost unrelatable to (e.g. absence of any kind of vulnerability, whether physical or emotional, and no I don't mean that women need to have these, it is that characters should have these), and men being morons. I am by no means a feminist. I enjoyed this film and looking at some of the criticisms given to the film, I cannot help but feel that people are seeing things that weren't there, or really trying hard to put things there that really weren't. I will admit, I went into the theater with concerns that they might Ghostbuster it, I don't want to see feminism the movie, I want to see an enjoyable superhero movie, and I feel that I got the latter. That isn't to say that there weren't criticisms to be made of the film, but making it out to be some feminist sledgehammer that isn't just on the nose, but breaks the face, seems to be overly sensitive.

[Zaktar]

I think a lot of this is about the fundamental narrative. Almost all prior Marvel films, even the big team-ups, are "man against man"; there's a baddie, stop the baddie. The twists on that theme were, at best, "maybe the baddie's not so bad", at times. There's occasionally some threads of "man against society", but they almost always boil that down to a handful of individuals.

Captain Marvel isn't that kind of story. It's "(wo)man against (her)self". Carol working through her memory loss and breaking her mental and physical chains and conditioning is the story. Which is why, when she does, she beats everyone handily; beating the enemy wasn't the story being told. Yon-rogg never posed a real threat, nor did Ronan and his ships. The only thing putting Carol at risk was her own hangups and conditioning, and once she'd "won" by getting over that, the rest was cleanup.

Many stories have the structure of character vs self; arguably almost all of the good ones do. Typically the internal struggle vs self is represented by an external problem the character is trying to overcome (or many problems, better if there are many problems). This story did a poor job of representing the internal struggle or tying it to anything else - yes, they passed the data of what she was struggling against, but it lacked emotional weight for many because everything was so easy for the character. If your internal story closed the gap for you and made it extremely entertaining to watch that is fantastic for you, but it doesn't mean other people didn't get what the filmmakers were trying to do; it just means we didn't like it as much.

[Bodakane]

The only thing that disappointed me about the movie is that it was too much story for one film and Cap's character development is what took a hit for that. I'd have preferred it as a 2-movie story.

[Nefastus]

there shoud be an option for not intending to see it as well, just a sugestion. There is a lot of polemic around the movie and would be nice to see how many dont want to see it at all. Personally I wont watch because I disagree with a lot of what the movie sugests and how the main actress behave.

[GhostShaman]

Just to talk about the movie and not all the bickering. I felt that the production quality was just poor. It felt like a medicore hero film, and arguably could have been made for the CW. The "action" was just not there, and honestly Brie Larson has no acting range...at all. There were some funny moments though, and I dig all the 90s references. The best part of the movie was Goose. Just going to leave it at that.

One quick edit: After seeing it, imho the reason why it did so well was the "controversy" surrounding it. When they make a part 2, if it is a stand alone and not part of some continuing story...it will more or likely flop...