Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Benggaul]

More like obstruction from a witch hunt?

34+ indictments. Half a dozen Trump aides facing jail time or other penalties. $50 million+ in seized assets. More than a dozen new investigations opened as a result of evidence found during this one.

Obviously, there were witches.

Also, trying to stop an investigation because you believe it to be wrong is still obstruction of justice.

[Kaleredar]

That's funny, cos British TV series are usually of higher quality than US series... Must be because their dialogue actually is good. And that British accent you guys dig so much... they gots it. Free of charge, too.

Are you really responding to a single post account...

Frankly, I think this forum would be a better place if people didn't give the time of day to any poster in Gen-OT without at least 400+ posts.

[Benggaul]

That's funny, cos British TV series are usually of higher quality than US series... Must be because their dialogue actually is good. And that British accent you guys dig so much... they gots it. Free of charge, too.

A bit off topic, but "British TV is of higher quality" or "US TV is better than anywhere else" are both subjective opinions, so you trying to refute his claim with yours is kind of pointless.

[Slant]

Are you really responding to a single post account...

Frankly, I think this forum would be a better place if people didn't give the time of day to any poster in Gen-OT without at least 400+ posts.

Oh, get off your high horse. He wasn't trolling nor representing an absurd viewpoint. I don't look at post counts. Neither should you.

[Orange Joe]

A lot of what exactly? This investigation and all the money spent on it could've been spent on something else. It's also has been Presidents who all have served both terms. I don't care how angry people get at this report, I'm not going to stop stating facts no matter how much you DON'T like them.

How many were arrested and charged?

As for cost it cost 35 million. Manaforts seizures alone at 40 million+ pay for the investigation.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Anyone else curious why Trump would obstruct justice if he was innocent of collusion?

The obvious answer is that he is guilty of other things and knows it. My guess is it is related to his tax returns.

The longer it takes for them to release the report to Congress, the more obvious his guilt is.

You don't even have to go that far. It seems pretty obvious that Barr is desperately trying to avoid admitting that Trump is objectively of obstruction of justice.

And that's before getting into how Barr admits the Russians offered Trump assistance to get you elected, and that the Russian provided assistance. Barr's "no collusion" claim is on very shaky ground. It seems to ignore Trump's open solicitation of Russian assistance, and the publicly documented actions he and his campaign team have taken for Russian benefit.

[Slant]

A bit off topic, but "British TV is of higher quality" or "US TV is better than anywhere else" are both subjective opinions, so you trying to refute his claim with yours is kind of pointless.

And yet, here we are, discussing subjective opinions... like in the thousands other topics on this forum. Funny how this thing works, social interaction...

[rogueMatthias]

How is that a conspiracy?

Even his own AG, the ONLY person to read the report, has said he is not exonerated of obstruction.

I know you guys hate facts and all....

That's because "obstruction" is way too vague a concept in these circumstances and entirely up to interpretation. Without a specific crime to have been shown to be obstructed it's meaningless and could never be "proven" either way.

“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go ... He is a good guy,” COULD be an attempt to block the investigation, or it could just be Trump vouching for his character. He also said he was Trump said he was thinking of “this Russia thing” when he fired him, but Trump also said in the NBC interview and in others that he fired Comey because he was incompetent. Comey was incompetent, weakening the case. For all the Russia interference, Clinton would be President now if it wasn't for Comey. The fact all of this has been in public view and on record makes it even more difficult to say there was malicious genuine intent to obstruct.

Now that the "Collusion" has been dismissed, the case for obstruction is basically non-existent. Democrats would be very wise to just drop this entire thing now and move on. Now that Muellers investigation has all but exonerated him on Russia, anything they do to keep dragging this out over the next year will just make themselves look bad.

[Bodakane]

That's because "obstruction" is way too vague a concept in these circumstances and entirely up to interpretation. Without a specific crime to have been shown to be obstructed it's meaningless and could never be "proven" either way.

“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go ... He is a good guy,” COULD be an attempt to block the investigation, or it could just be Trump vouching for his character. He also said he was Trump said he was thinking of “this Russia thing” when he fired him, but Trump also said in the NBC interview and in others that he fired Comey because he was incompetent. Comey was incompetent, weakening the case. For all the Russia interference, Clinton would be President now if it wasn't for Comey. The fact all of this has been in public view and on record makes it even more difficult to say there was malicious genuine intent to obstruct.

Now that the "Collusion" has been dismissed, the case for obstruction is basically non-existent. Democrats would be very wise to just drop this entire thing now and move on. Now that Muellers investigation has all but exonerated him on Russia, anything they do to keep dragging this out over the next year will just make themselves look bad.

Very little of what you just said is true.

[Slant]

Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Game of Thrones all made by American directors and story tellers. Greatest shows of all time.

Tell little britain to catch up.

Sit down your irrelevant german nazi.

Doctor Who. 'nuff said.

[Fahrenheit]

I don't see how this is germane to the topic.

[Orange Joe]

More like obstruction from a witch hunt?

Paul manafort is a witch? Is Cohen a witch?

[Benggaul]

And yet, here we are, discussing subjective opinions... like in the thousands other topics on this forum. Funny how this thing works, social interaction...

Hah, no. At least some people in this thread are trying to back up their claims with objective facts. "My dad is better than your dad!" is just pointless blather, particularly in the context of this thread. Good luck.

[Northern Goblin]

Hollywood studio son, Made in America. Sopranos, Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad tv series made by genius American directors.

You are a irrelevant Brit.

And life would not cease to exist if Hollywood didn't. There are film and television companies all over the world. Hell, the best thing you've had on American tv in recent years was a subpar remake of a British comedy.

You overstate your cultural importance by thinking it holds humanity's survival in the balance. There are plenty of non American cultural influences from Europe and Asia.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Saying "there was nothing to the Russia story" is not a fact. It's an opinion that ignores evidence to the contrary. The Trump Tower meetings, the contacts Jr., Manafort and Cohen made, etc. all point to some pretty shady business. There was not, however, ENOUGH evidence to lay "collusion" at the feet of Trump and his campaign. Fair enough, I accept that Mueller did a thorough job in investigating that point even though the major focus of the investigation was meant to be whether or not Trump obstructed justice--which, according to Barr--Mueller is unable to exonerate him of.

I suspect the reason he is "not exonerated" as opposed to "guilty of" has to do with the fact that there are clear instances of him obstructing justice (witness tampering on Twitter, telling Comey to end the Russia investigation) but these were not deemed "severe" enough to warrant pursuing.

Nope. Read Barr's letter again. He isn't charging Trump with obstruction, because he only looked into obstruction with regards to Trump obstructing Muller's investigation into the Russian cyberwarfare. Then Barr concludes that since Trump & Co weren't guilty of telling the Russian goverment how to help them win, they aren't guilty of anything.

What's left unaddressed is that Trump was cutting quid pro quo deals with Russian citizens, and that he did obstruct investigations into that (and other issues).

To make an analogy, it's like the mods here looking at a reported post, saying "Well, it's not discussing religion, which is a banned topic, so we don't care if it's nation-bashing or trolling."

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That shit you posted reads like mental gymnastics worthy of The Onion....

"I want to see the whole report" apparently equals "mental gymnastics" to Redhats.


Maybe Mueller has a really good explanation of how asking for Russian help and receiving Russian help, while secretly conducting business deals with Russia isn't 'conspiracy'. And maybe it has a really good explanation for how repeatedly interfering into the investigation into said Russian contacts isn't obstruction, even though the attorney general previously said it was.

[Breccia]

Now that the "Collusion" has been dismissed, the case for obstruction is basically non-existent.

*LOUD ANNOYING BUZZER*

Sorry, but that's not the case at all. Yes, you can obstruct justice even when innocent of the original crime. We had a President, who was impeached, for doing exactly that. His name was Clinton. There is President for exactly what you're trying to handwave.

[Slant]

Hah, no. At least some people in this thread are trying to back up their claims with objective facts. "My dad is better than your dad!" is just pointless blather, particularly in the context of this thread. Good luck.

I agree, but talking about the report can, by your definition, not be done right now unless you somehow have secret access to the report. All we got is hearsay and media speculations. And beyond that, it's again personal opinions. What does it mean, though? Did he or didn't he, though? Will he get indicted, though? etc. pp. ad nauseum.

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Name me some tv series or movies you Brits made that trumps any of those series i mentioned.

Stay silent you irrelevant british donkeys. Your stagnated 2.8 trillion GDP (and falling thanks to brexit) with thug ridden cities and a poor 40 billion military budget because you're poor as an african.

See, this is why nobody likes to play with you.

[Orange Joe]

"A new study documents the speed at which American English has stretched around the globe – and its influence is even felt within the UK"

You're using American words, you just don't realize it son.

Who is your main account?

All that talk of being a big bad American why you hiding behind a burn account like a coward?

[Northern Goblin]

l
See, this is why nobody likes to play with you.

I wonder if they realise how dependent GoT is on "irrelevant Brits" as actors. Barely a cast without them in it.

Also Dr Who? You should have mentioned Sherlock, Peaky Blinders or Downton Abbey. Apparently IMDB is the definition of cultural importance!

[Bodakane]

I wonder if they realise how dependent GoT is on "irrelevant Brits" as actors. Barely a cast without them in it.

Also Dr Who? You should have mentioned Sherlock, Peaky Blinders or Downton Abbey. Apparently IMDB is the definition of cultural importance!

WADR, why are you indulging an obvious alt account that is insulting people who is also trying to derail the topic of the thread? That is like 3 different forms of ToS violation that you're looking past.