WoW is pulling a HotS

[Constraint]

Naxx was a joke... they basically copy/pasted the lvl 60 version without tweaking numbers at all. Ffs it was cleared by a group of lvl 77 druids.

It wasn't so much the numbers, they literally removed all the hard mechanics from every fight. Kinda sad really.

[Aggrophobic]

Someone clearly didnt do Hardmode Uld or Heroic Trial......

I did. Tomb of Sargeras on mythic was so much harder it's not even comparable.

[MysteryBoo]

Not even close. WotlK had 10 man normal raids, that were almost way easier than normal raids today. Purchasable raid gear for easy catch-up. Easy to obtain high end PvP gear.

Would you really say ICC normal was easier than Normal now?Meh,you might be right.

[Tyrilion]

WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.

I loved wrath and no it really wasnt, you could face roll through pretty much everything.

[Daikoku]

Someone clearly didnt do Hardmode Uld or Heroic Trial......

You clearly don't remember.

Ulduar Hardmode nor Heroic ToC are comparable to any Legion/BFA Myth Boss


Wotlk Raids were harder than Legion/BFA? Nope.

Wotlk Ulduar Hard Mode were more interesting than Mythic BFA/Legion Bosses? Sure.

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I loved wrath and no it really wasnt, you could face roll through pretty much everything.

Sart+3 could be literally CHEESED and still we dont have in BFA nor Legion a boss with a "+3" mode or similar that can be cheesed with DPS rather than using BUG that are already fixed, rasta.

[Mermeoth]

To be honest I have most fun playing HotS out of all current MOBAs. And I have played tons of them since days of W3.

I don't think items are important. At the end every class/role has it's core items you buy every game and then you have some situational items you pick from. It's about same as talent system. Thought talents are character specific while items can be used generaly by anyone. Which means with items you are given just unnecessary customization while they limit creators due the fact they have to balance every character about them. Look at Abathur, Murky and Cho'Gall. What other MOBA got such unique characters?

Also I was never fun of playing minigames in games. Last hitting is utterly boring for me. I will rather do different objectives and fight enemy heroes instead of watching HP bars and minimap for 20 minutes.

[Newname1234567890]

I mean I'm not a raider or good at the game at all but during wrath I knew some raiders who invited me to do Naxx and OS. I said that I only had greens to which they said it didn't matter. As far as I can remember it was not remotely a problem.

So based on that very circumstantial evidence, Wrath was more casual then current

[MysteryBoo]

I mean I'm not a raider or good at the game at all but during wrath I knew some raiders who invited me to do Naxx and OS. I said that I only had greens to which they said it didn't matter. As far as I can remember it was not remotely a problem.

So based on that very circumstantial evidence, Wrath was more casual then current

I think so too.The time commitment now is ridiculous since you have to log every day to farm world quest/azerite.On Wotlk you could just raid log if so you desired.

[Sencha]

Agree with OP. Blizzard has been known to take an existing genre and casualize it to reach a large audience. While it used to work in the past they now went too far in that way. Diablo3 was the first victim to me. Then it was HotS. The same thing happens to WoW where each expansion is more streamlined than the previous one.

Hope they will soon™ realize that they need to reverse this trend. Not interested in pc games that need as many brain cells as mobile games to play.

[Artelia]

Do you know why people don't like this expansion?
Because casuals got content that is completed in two days max. Raiders (minority) get two raids in one patch and fun for months. (and still they bitching around how much casual this game is).

Something similiar happened in WoD.
Legion gave content to casual community.


Tell me. What expansion people likes more? Wod for spoiled raiders or Legion for everyone?

[Sencha]

Wod for spoiled raiders

What? They created garrison in WoD to please the casual crowd. That's why it failed.

[Tyrilion]

You clearly don't remember.

Ulduar Hardmode nor Heroic ToC are comparable to any Legion/BFA Myth Boss


Wotlk Raids were harder than Legion/BFA? Nope.

Wotlk Ulduar Hard Mode were more interesting than Mythic BFA/Legion Bosses? Sure.

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Sart+3 could be literally CHEESED and still we dont have in BFA nor Legion a boss with a "+3" mode or similar that can be cheesed with DPS rather than using BUG that are already fixed, rasta.

Exactly, Even Ulduar HM were still easier than what we have today, granted hella more fun to figure out

[Puupi]

Do you know why people don't like this expansion?
Because casuals got content that is completed in two days max. Raiders (minority) get two raids in one patch and fun for months. (and still they bitching around how much casual this game is).

Something similiar happened in WoD.
Legion gave content to casual community.


Tell me. What expansion people likes more? Wod for spoiled raiders or Legion for everyone?

The game doesn't have content for casuals nor hardcores. That's the problem. There is not enough meaningful or interesting stuff to do for anyone.

[nekobaka]

I mean I'm not a raider or good at the game at all but during wrath I knew some raiders who invited me to do Naxx and OS. I said that I only had greens to which they said it didn't matter. As far as I can remember it was not remotely a problem.

So based on that very circumstantial evidence, Wrath was more casual then current

A good point of that was due to that tier being quite undertuned and friendly to PuGs by way of letting individuals screw up and still have room to recover. End boss heroic dungeons was already dropping 10 man Naxx equivalent loot. That said the average group on my realm still took months to clear 25 man Naxx despite 10 man being a breeze and Mal still a couple more months until gear made it PuGable. Much of WotLK "casual" friendless came in the way of easy to obtain gear on par of raids targeted towards organized raiders. Many went into ICC 10 man including guilds with gear from PuG 25 man ToC and later having access to ICC 25 ilvl badge gear. T7 and T9 though was quite friendly to PuGs while both T8 and T10 was quite punishing with the majority of PuGs not clearing content while current. Most guilds on my realm couldnt get past blood queen due to Sindragosa being highly punishing to single player screw ups. Ulduar also was quite punishing due to single person screw ups when current. Was sad running carries on my alt and telling people with no experience to sit out on the Yogg fight. Off memory the 3rd party estimates of ICC at expansions end was around 10%. No clue what current numbers are now. Last time MMO-Champ posted their armory scan of raid clears was early WoD with around 30% at the 3-4 month mark. Would be cool if Chaud ran numbers again.

The game doesn't have content for casuals nor hardcores. That's the problem. There is not enough meaningful or interesting stuff to do for anyone.

IMO it is largely focused on retention metrics. The whole shit storm with Blizzard hiding that they turned of bad luck protection on exotics based on content patch releases and then told the player base when caught that it will stay shows their focus. What amazes me is the kind of stuff other devs are getting shit on so heavily for doing is stuff that Blizzard is getting defended on especially in this forum.

[Zephi5315]

WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.

no it was not.
Wrath brought tons of features into the whole expansion DESIGNED for the casual playerbase.

[Daikoku]

The game doesn't have content for casuals nor hardcores. That's the problem. There is not enough meaningful or interesting stuff to do for anyone.

There is too much BLAND stuff, IE and AFKFRONTS are meaningless, RNG+TF doesnt give you any sense of progression nor achievment.

Also 4 difficulty for what? Giving us an headache?

Just leave LFR for the uber-casual pet battle fans
Remove Normal and leave HC as baseline difficulty
THEN add the Hard Mode/Mythic Mode a la Ulduar that gives particular gear, ofc better and stronger gear.

So from [LFR][NORMAL][HC][MYTHIC] to [LFR][HC]{HARD_MODE}


4 difficulties are completely useless beside the precise criminal intent of making us farming gear to trade it and stay subbed.

[h4rr0d]

Maybe if all you do in this game is warfronts and pet battles...

No, not even then.

Nax / OS were a joke on every difficulty, except maybe 3 drakes 10-man where you just needed half a brain to not get burned by the lava wave. Need I remind you that Nax was also re-hashed content? The Nexus raid was also a disappointing mess.

BFA's LFR is more hardcore than WOTLK's release raids. Change my mind.

The only thing I honestly kindof wish was in BfA is a structured WPvP zone ala Wintergrasp, instead of warmode; But even that was largely just a baby's first raid available to more numerous faction, that dropped tier sets for 0 effort.

Malygos in LFR would be fun.

[Daikoku]

Malygos in LFR would be fun.

9stack Tenacity before even clicking the orb to start the fight

[MiiiMiii]

Just to be clear: How "casual" an expansion is is NOT determined by:
* How hard BfA M+99 vs TBC Heroics is
* How hard BfA Mythic raids are compared to TBC Black Temple.
* How hard it is to get every single possible achievement and mount and transmog in the game.

If you think this, you have misunderstood.

Saying WotLK is more casual than BfA because Naxx was easy is completely misunderstanding what a casual game means.

[Soon-TM]

What? They created garrison in WoD to please the casual crowd. That's why it failed.

Maybe that was their intent, but if that was the case, they failed horribly. All the Garrison achieved was to make raidloggers' lives easier than ever, while actual casuals got exactly squat throughout all of the xpac.