[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Fuiking]

I always thought most wanted to take back control from certain laws/rules laid out by the EU, but not leave its ''oh we can trade easy with other countries'' deal.

[dribbles]

I'm trembling in my seat as we speak!
Good laugh mate

I can understand the trembles, it will be EU wide

Boris goes for the kill: Johnson says May's Brexit deal is 'dead' and she should still step aside even if it is defeated... a day after he offered to back the plan after months of trashing it

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...upport-it.html

PM in waiting is on the move, some will rejoice, others will tremble.

Ah come on Dribbs you know the answer to this. The first referendum was flawed because people who voted "Leave" could have meant anything from a Brexit-in-name-only to a hard crash-and-burn, if it can be taken as a mandate for anything it would be the impossible unicorns and rainbows promised by the law-breaking Leave campaign and that isn't going to happen. What we need is a referendum that puts the realistic options on the table - Hard Brexit, May's deal, other possible EU deals (that would break May's redlines) or giving up and Remaining. The thing is Brexiteers like yourself don't want the public to have a proper referendum based on reality because you know the will of the people would be against what you desire.

Cameron, Osborne and many others clearly spelt out what voting to leave would mean, leaving the customs union, the single market etc etc... It was two clear simple options, to remain or to leave. Treacherous remainers muddied the waters by creating false options post referendum of soft,hard brexit and creating the mess we face today. Those options were not what people voted for and did not exist at the time of the referendum.

And a second referendum? Once the first is honoured i'll support that. See how reasonable and moderate brexiteers like me can be?

[Dizzeeyooo]

I can understand the trembles, it will be EU wide

Boris goes for the kill: Johnson says May's Brexit deal is 'dead' and she should still step aside even if it is defeated... a day after he offered to back the plan after months of trashing it

You still haven't explained why the EU should care more about this situation compared to a no deal under May?

[Dhrizzle]

Cameron, Osborne and many others clearly spelt out what voting to leave would mean, leaving the customs union, the single market etc etc... It was two clear simple options, to remain or to leave. Treacherous remainers muddied the waters by creating false options post referendum of soft,hard brexit and creating the mess we face today. Those options were not what people voted for and did not exist at the time of the referendum.

Also the Leave campaign said they would have negotiations well under way before any legal processes to leave the EU are started, and that a free trade agreement with the EU would be the easiest thing in the world to negotiate. Oh, don't forget the £350m a week that would come direct from EU savings into the NHS...

And a second referendum? Once the first is honoured i'll support that. See how reasonable and moderate brexiteers like me can be?

Ah come on Dribbs you know the answer to this. The first referendum was flawed because people who voted "Leave" could have meant anything from Brexit-in-name-only to a hard crash-and-burn, if it can be taken as a mandate for anything it would be the impossible unicorns and rainbows promised by the law-breaking Leave campaign and that isn't going to happen.

[Slant]

Amazing look back at how everything went wrong for the UK. And, in some parts you can even see it reflected in this thread, too.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-...u-negotiation/

The European Union set the train in motion before the result of the Brexit referendum had even been announced.

It was at 6:22 a.m. on June 24, 2016 — 59 minutes before the official tally was unveiled — that the European Council sent its first “lines to take” to the national governments that make up the EU.

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Presumably you will appreciate Dominac Raabs latest intervention @Slant

Wtf? I don't even pretend to understand British politics anymore... aren't they getting nausea with all the turning around they have to do?

[dribbles]

You still haven't explained why the EU should care more about this situation compared to a no deal under May?

Perhaps they won't care any more. But it ought to be better for them to have a puppet quisling like Theresa May as PM rather than one who despises every word uttered out of Brussels. That obstinacy and intransigence is an EU failing, not UK.

Also the Leave campaign said they would have negotiations well under way before any legal processes to leave the EU are started, and that a free trade agreement with the EU would be the easiest thing in the world to negotiate. Oh, don't forget the £350m a week that would come direct from EU savings into the NHS...

And they would have has exploratory talks, except the stubborn and stupid EU refused any negotiations until the UK had served A50. This mess is on the EU.

Ah come on Dribbs you know the answer to this. The first referendum was flawed because people who voted "Leave" could have meant anything from Brexit-in-name-only to a hard crash-and-burn, if it can be taken as a mandate for anything it would be the impossible unicorns and rainbows promised by the law-breaking Leave campaign and that isn't going to happen.

Nope, the clarity of the referendum was crystal. I had no problem understanding it, nor did 17 million others.

[Dhrizzle]

And they would have has exploratory talks, except the stubborn and stupid EU refused any negotiations until the UK had served A50. This mess is on the EU.

Shouldn't someone in the Leave campaign had known something about that?

Nope, the clarity of the referendum was crystal. I had no problem understanding it, nor did 17 million others.

Stop trying to lie about this. You already admitted that a lot of people who voted Leave were duped into it by the lies of the Leave campaign and you were quite happy about the fact.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Perhaps they won't care any more. But it ought to be better for them to have a puppet quisling like Theresa May as PM rather than one who despises every word uttered out of Brussels. That obstinacy and intransigence is an EU failing, not UK

EU no deal preparations are complete and the withdrawal agreement is not being re-opened - what is a "non puppet quisling" PM going to achieve, outside of those two options (or being less racist and dropping opposition to freedom of movement)?

Why would Johnson (lol) be better for them?

[Mayhem]

And they would have has exploratory talks, except the stubborn and stupid EU refused any negotiations until the UK had served A50. This mess is on the EU.

You're welcome.

[Kronik85]

More on former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab's suggestion that the government should try again to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement with the EU.

Mr Raab, who quit the cabinet last year over what he called "fatal flaws" in the Brexit deal, says the UK should be prepared to leave the bloc without a deal if it refuses to agree to fresh talks.

"If they still don't move I think we should have sensible conversations ... around the suite of no-deal arrangements that can be made to mitigate any of the potential damage on either side: to European jobs and livelihoods and also to UK jobs and livelihoods."

"Sensible conversations" and "reopen the WA" mentioned in the same breath xD. You really couldn't make this shit up.

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Speculation on my part to follow.

So there seems to be some confusion, furore and intrigue over what's happening tomorrow since the Gov was saying MPs need to be in tomorrow to vote on something, only atm no ones been able to confirm what it is they will be voting on and this has obviously upset our MPs since they were hoping for a well deserved long weekend after spending another week doing nothing and to hit the sauce pretty hard tonight.

Well it's looking like this mystery vote was to be MVIII, "but Kronik!" you say, "didn't Bercow kill MVIII by saying he wouldn't put it before The House again without changes?". Yes this is true, so it looks like the Gov had come up with a fudge by separating the WA and the Political Declaration which would indeed be a significant change enough to allow Bercow to nod through MVIII.

Unfortunately for the Gov this has come unstuck because you can't separate the two by the wording of A50 itself. I think Baldrik was better at cunning plans than this sorry lot.

[kaid]

So... they rejected everything? Rofl, that's hilarious. My mate just told me about it on Teamspeak. This is unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. They're cornered, they put the gun to their head... and yet they cannot agree to anything... any direction, no matter which? Haha, so funny.

From what I was looking at this seemed expected in the first round of these votes. We shall see if monday if any of those that were closer get whipped harder to push one across the line. Ironically if all the labor abstentions voted to revoke article 50 they had enough votes to push it through. I think seeing that and the second ref getting close are what is making some of the ERG doofs like boris worried and may get them to vote for mays deal.

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Ah come on Dribbs you know the answer to this. The first referendum was flawed because people who voted "Leave" could have meant anything from a Brexit-in-name-only to a hard crash-and-burn, if it can be taken as a mandate for anything it would be the impossible unicorns and rainbows promised by the law-breaking Leave campaign and that isn't going to happen. What we need is a referendum that puts the realistic options on the table - Hard Brexit, May's deal, other possible EU deals (that would break May's redlines) or giving up and Remaining. The thing is Brexiteers like yourself don't want the public to have a proper referendum based on reality because you know the will of the people would be against what you desire.

I think the amount of unicorns people voted for initially is clear in looking at the DUP. They don't want a hard border and they don't want a soft sea border and they don't want to be in the EU so short of somebody physically moving everybody in northern ireland to britain there was no way to accomplish what they were asking for.

[Crispin]

David Davis couldn't show up with anything, his hands were tied by a remainer PM and her arch remainer guru Olly Robbins. Ditto for the ERG and Johnson. The remainers who led a process they didn't believe in, in collusion with the EU enemy, are wholly responsible for the mess this is in.



The EU have seen nothing yet. They have been negotiating with remainers who don't even want Brexit lite. Wait until they come up against people who want and believe in a true clean Brexit, backed by the will of the people.

This is probably lost on you, but the EU is far more experienced in negotiating deals than die hard brexiteers. The EU have been negotiating on behalf of 28 countries (including yours) for decades now. When the US arent able to make the EU bend over and take it, there's no way in hell little england will manage to do so.

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Perhaps they won't care any more. But it ought to be better for them to have a puppet quisling like Theresa May as PM rather than one who despises every word uttered out of Brussels. That obstinacy and intransigence is an EU failing, not UK.



And they would have has exploratory talks, except the stubborn and stupid EU refused any negotiations until the UK had served A50. This mess is on the EU.



Nope, the clarity of the referendum was crystal. I had no problem understanding it, nor did 17 million others.

Of course the EU does not have "lets make a deal and then we'll see if we'll have a referendum on EU membership" talk with members.

It's like trying to figure out what you'll get out of a divorce, and then decide whether you want the divorce or not.


Either way, it'll be fun to watch the "350m for the NHS!" liar go through the EU negotiation machine. You'll be just as dissapointed as you must be with your "tick tock" nonsense.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Boris Johnson at 7am yesterday


Boris Johnson at 7am today


As of lunchtime today, he is now saying the deal is dead again.

Was he right yesterday morning, or this morning, or this afternoon? @dribbles

[Flarelaine]

I think the amount of unicorns people voted for initially is clear in looking at the DUP. They don't want a hard border and they don't want a soft sea border and they don't want to be in the EU so short of somebody physically moving everybody in northern ireland to britain there was no way to accomplish what they were asking for.

I think the trick is that they would not mind a hard border with Ireland.

Also, unicorns are nice! Observe:

[Dhrizzle]

From what I was looking at this seemed expected in the first round of these votes. We shall see if monday if any of those that were closer get whipped harder to push one across the line. Ironically if all the labor abstentions voted to revoke article 50 they had enough votes to push it through. I think seeing that and the second ref getting close are what is making some of the ERG doofs like boris worried and may get them to vote for mays deal.

Whilst I do think revoking article 50 would be best for the country and it does fit with my personal preferences I don't want it done just by an Act of Parliament. A second referendum would be needed to show the Brexiteers that the will of the people has changed on this matter, and if a second referendum ends up with May's deal or a no deal Brexit then at least this time the people will have some idea what they were actually voting for.

[kaid]

Whilst I do think revoking article 50 would be best for the country and it does fit with my personal preferences I don't want it done just by an Act of Parliament. A second referendum would be needed to show the Brexiteers that the will of the people has changed on this matter, and if a second referendum ends up with May's deal or a no deal Brexit then at least this time the people will have some idea what they were actually voting for.

I would agree that once they come to some kind of conclusion that has the votes to pass they need to put it into a referendum if the people want it or not because I don't think anything that can get the votes resembles what people voted for in the initial referendum.

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The trick is they probably would not mind the Troubles; it's a boost to sectarianism and a chance to continue. I would not be surprised if some of the DUP lost people in the Troubles and care more for a new chance at revenge than peace.

But I think they would not be okay with a hard border likely triggering another swing towards unification that if people were given the option of hard border or unification may chose the latter if the UK is busy shooting itself in the feet.

[Flarelaine]

The trick is they probably would not mind the Troubles; it's a boost to sectarianism and a chance to continue. I would not be surprised if some of the DUP lost people in the Troubles and care more for a new chance at revenge than peace.

That much goes without saying.

[Odinfrost]

I have a question, because I don't live in the UK and the news don't really show any of the negotiations happening in the british parliment, but... Do we know what the Pro-brexit politicians want, or is it just "We don't like that deal, May. You are a failure, now make a deal we want!" without any input in what they want?

[dribbles]

Boris Johnson at 7am yesterday

As of lunchtime today, he is now saying the deal is dead again.

Was he right yesterday morning, or this morning, or this afternoon? @dribbles

It is clear that Boris will do and say whatever it takes in the best interests of his country. That includes facilitating the removal of terrible Theresa and his installation as a brexiteer in her place in order to serve the democratic will of the people.

Over 17 million people will thank him for acting so honourably and selflessly for that reason.

Lol, sod off with this bullshit. Are you seriuos right now? The UK had nearly 3 years to get their shit in order and did almost nothing during that time, even right now there are almost no preparations in place for a no deal transition.

Nobody is going to take anyone from the UK serious any longer if they try to blame this one on the EU. Take respondibility for your own shortcomings for a change.

But the process of the UK leaving over those 3 years was clearly led by remainers in collusion with the EU not brexiteers. If the PM had been a brexiteer surrounded by soul mates we would not be in this mess. This mess has been created by anti democratic remainers and the EU who have firmly been in charge of the progression of the UK exit. The EU and remainers must own this, brexiteers have had no part to play in it. Yet.

Don't worry they will have soon, and only they will sort it out.

[Dizzeeyooo]

It is clear that Boris will do and say whatever it takes in the best interests of his country. That includes facilitating the removal of terrible Theresa and his installation as a brexiteer in her place in order to serve the democratic will of the people.

Over 17 million people will thank him for acting so honourably and selflessly for that reason.

I get the strong impression from this that you actually really dislike Johnson?