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  1. #1561
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Double checked, the Temporal Cold War covers the 21st through 31st Centuries.

    ST: Discovery is set in the 2250s, and they said she's being kicked 950 years into the future, which would be ~3200, at the cusp of the 33rd Century.

    Her end-point is outside their scope, and her action may be a critical part of the timeline they deem as "normal". The future she was kicked into may be an aberrant one that she prevents. Given that it's a future where all sentient life is exterminated, I can see why they might let her prevent it.
    The temporal cold war is just a conflict that took place somewhen. It has nothing to do with the existence of the agency that is protecting the original timeline, nowhere it says that it would stop existing after the cold war. Especially after the war having control over the timeline would make sense to prevent another war. Apart from the fact that "before" and "after" hardly have any meaning if you have access to time travel.

    And if they agree that the future would be so bad without a change of the timeline, why not do it themselves in a controlled environment than relying on some random eperiment that already cost many lives (and therfor already has drastically changed the timeline)? It's just another thing they did not think through, or cared about. Not necessarily now, but when they introduced such an institution in voy and ent. But they made it canon.

  2. #1562
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Except that we know the Borg's history goes back thousands of years. That canon's established in both TNG and Voyager.

    The only way Control becomes the Borg is if the final resolution here involves kicking them way, way back in time and space. Since we've got time travel in the mix, that's possible, but I'll suggest it's at least equally likely that Control has been infected by the already-extant Borg somehow, and has become a tool of theirs, making use of some of their technological ideas. That would make Control the Federation's first real encounter with the Borg, though they may not realize what the greater threat is for a couple centuries (the TNG era).
    I get that, and it has been established that this is in Prime Canon. But come on..... Leeland takes phaser blasts and regenerates effortlessly, superhuman strength, can use computers without interacting with them, able to communicate with the ship to transport....... Control wanting to Evolve

    Control: I am in a holographic form indistinguishable from any biological entity I choose to represent.
    Borg: We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
    Control: There are 7000 ships in Starfleet, all reliant on the chain of command. That chain unquestioned, unbroken, unseen every instruction passed down through channels. In time even those who do not follow my agenda willingy.... will.
    Borg: Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.”
    Control: I require a body to allow me to freely operate.
    Borg: Inject nanites.
    Control: Injects Leeland with Nanites.


    You cannot get any further from the truth than that......

  3. #1563
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    I facepalmed at the end, why would they not nuke fucking "Leland's" ship, cutting off his only way out and destroying the stolen sphere data plus the Control's system corruption?
    Because it's a Section 31 ship. And Section 31 is Federation. By the time they realized he'd beamed out, the ship was already gone.


  4. #1564
    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    I facepalmed at the end, why would they not nuke fucking "Leland's" ship, cutting off his only way out and destroying the stolen sphere data plus the Control's system corruption?
    I believe it was established that the Sec 31 ship is far more advanced than Discovery and they may not have had the firepower to destroy it. It also may have had shields up considering the threat it faced. So nuking it may not have been a possibility.

    Then there is the fact that they did not know about the redesign of Leeland and that he was able to do what he did. But in the end, I agree, destroy the ship destroy what information it gathered and remove the threat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    E
    The only way Control becomes the Borg is if the final resolution here involves kicking them way, way back in time and space. Since we've got time travel in the mix, that's possible, but I'll suggest it's at least equally likely that Control has been infected by the already-extant Borg somehow, and has become a tool of theirs, making use of some of their technological ideas. That would make Control the Federation's first real encounter with the Borg, though they may not realize what the greater threat is for a couple centuries (the TNG era).
    With the next episode, we are going to see Disc up against several Sec 31 ships. My guess is that Control is going to find out at some point it is a losing battle and buger out. Whether is is time travel or just run into warp, there is no doubt that this is the birth of the Borg. It may have some of the time travel secrets within the 54% it downloaded so time travel as you say can fit in very well.

  5. #1565
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because it's a Section 31 ship. And Section 31 is Federation. By the time they realized he'd beamed out, the ship was already gone.
    They should've targeted his warp drive the second they saw the fight break out on the ground, they know damn well what's at stake and what they're dealing with. It's a pretty huge tactical blunder.

  6. #1566
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because it's a Section 31 ship. And Section 31 is Federation. By the time they realized he'd beamed out, the ship was already gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    They should've targeted his warp drive the second they saw the fight break out on the ground, they know damn well what's at stake and what they're dealing with. It's a pretty huge tactical blunder.
    Again, Section 31 was not the overt enemy. They had every reason to think that they were on the Federation's side, until Leland's corruption was revealed.

    What you're describing is a very Section 31 "security above all else" tactic, but not something Federation officers would otherwise engage in.


  7. #1567
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoWGoneBad View Post
    I believe it was established that the Sec 31 ship is far more advanced than Discovery and they may not have had the firepower to destroy it. It also may have had shields up considering the threat it faced. So nuking it may not have been a possibility.

    Then there is the fact that they did not know about the redesign of Leeland and that he was able to do what he did. But in the end, I agree, destroy the ship destroy what information it gathered and remove the threat.

    - - - Updated - - -



    With the next episode, we are going to see Disc up against several Sec 31 ships. My guess is that Control is going to find out at some point it is a losing battle and buger out. Whether is is time travel or just run into warp, there is no doubt that this is the birth of the Borg. It may have some of the time travel secrets within the 54% it downloaded so time travel as you say can fit in very well.
    I'll admit that it looks like the Borg, but I believe it is too soon to say without a doubt that we are witnessing the birth of the Borg. For one, the Borg did not want to destroy all life in the Universe, but to assimilate species.

    About next episode, the signal sends the Discovery to Boreth, where Tyler and L'Rell son was sheltered. I wonder what importance that child will have in the grand scope of things. And since we're in Klingon territory, maybe we will see those "new" nifty D-7 battlecruisers in action against the Section 31 fleet?
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  8. #1568
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    I'll admit that it looks like the Borg, but I believe it is too soon to say without a doubt that we are witnessing the birth of the Borg. For one, the Borg did not want to destroy all life in the Universe, but to assimilate species.
    My guess is that by the season end, we will get the save the galaxy-ending we want, but with Leeland and whoever Control gets until they are going to be the start of it.

    By saving the future they screw the present. Leeland and any he gets along the way bugger out.

  9. #1569
    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post
    In fact Control could be the inter dimensional leader of the Borg, directing its nanites from its prison cell and leading the Borg to assimilate the universe. The repeated attempts by the Borg to time travel would demonstrate Controls knowledge being used.
    I think Control and the Borg are entirely unrelated. Their motivations are different for a start.

    Both groups utilize nano-tech but that technology is not something that's distinct for either. Star Trek under-utilizes the concept so I get why people may think they're related.

    Its also distinctly possible Control will simply have no presence at the end of season. The Borg, on the other hand, are happily assimilating everything in the Delta quadrant during TOS time.

  10. #1570
    Warchief Themerlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I think Control and the Borg are entirely unrelated. Their motivations are different for a start.

    Both groups utilize nano-tech but that technology is not something that's distinct for either. Star Trek under-utilizes the concept so I get why people may think they're related.

    Its also distinctly possible Control will simply have no presence at the end of season. The Borg, on the other hand, are happily assimilating everything in the Delta quadrant during TOS time.
    The Borg utilizes subspace communications, could it be possible that the bit of Control that does survive, gets sent through a subspace channel and basically inserts itself in a species that already utilizes that technology?

    The Borg are born...

    That little subspace packet of information is what catalyses the creation of the Borg.

    I believe that once the time crystal gets used to imprison Control in a time bubble, basically isolating its space time from ours, Control somehow manages to send one subspace signal, one small piece of the whole.

    Subspace Signals can potentially travel across time, as well as being able to cross vast stellar distances. For Control it did not matter as long as it was in our Galaxy, for the luck of the draw , it lands in the Delta quadrant, to brood into the Borg, like a virus.

    No wonder that the Borg play around with the concept of time travel in the series.

    Its not that the packet retained the actual memories of Control, but had one small well of information on "assimilating" biological matter, and retaining control of the collective through subspace channels. Its all it needed to take over the universe eventually.

    Edit: I'm an asshole.
    Last edited by Themerlin; 2019-03-30 at 11:34 PM.
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  11. #1571
    It's probably a good Sci-fi show, but I really can't stomach it as Star Trek. It just does not give me the same feeling :\

  12. #1572
    Lots to like in this show, but michael would not be missed if she died eating her breakfast. How can you get away with being so emotional in every crucial moment without getting your ass fired? Only with plot armor. Not sure if it's the actor who is incapable of acting, or it's the writing. Can't remember she being like this in TWD, but could be wrong.

  13. #1573
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Lots to like in this show, but michael would not be missed if she died eating her breakfast. How can you get away with being so emotional in every crucial moment without getting your ass fired? Only with plot armor. Not sure if it's the actor who is incapable of acting, or it's the writing. Can't remember she being like this in TWD, but could be wrong.
    Basically this. I'm enjoying the series a LOT more in season 2. SUPER SAD that Pike is going to be leaving as he really brings the show together. The supporting cast still aren't strong enough without that strong lead.

    There really needs to be a lot less of Michael though. Part of me is hoping that the reason we've never heard of her as Spocks sister is because at the end of this arc they time travel and change the whole timeline so her parents never died and she didn't join starfleet.
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  14. #1574
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Basically this. I'm enjoying the series a LOT more in season 2. SUPER SAD that Pike is going to be leaving as he really brings the show together. The supporting cast still aren't strong enough without that strong lead.

    There really needs to be a lot less of Michael though. Part of me is hoping that the reason we've never heard of her as Spocks sister is because at the end of this arc they time travel and change the whole timeline so her parents never died and she didn't join starfleet.
    I would hate that. Having an altered timeline episode is okay, we've have plenty of those. TNG ends with that kind of episode. But a whole season erased, or two in what you are proposing, would just be insulting the viewers. It would be worse than Bobby Ewing's return in Dallas...
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  15. #1575
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    But a whole season erased, or two in what you are proposing, would just be insulting the viewers.
    Some people at Lucasfilm think that is not a problem at all, and if it works for them... and the Mouse..

  16. #1576
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnotallama View Post
    Some people at Lucasfilm think that is not a problem at all, and if it works for them... and the Mouse..
    Ah yeah... The old conspiracy theory about the Evil Mouse Empire...

    Anyway, there's a huge difference between rebooting a franchise (and I really doubt that will happen for Star Wars) and earasing whole seasons of story by using altered timeline or "it-was-just-a-dream-all-along."
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  17. #1577
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    I would hate that. Having an altered timeline episode is okay, we've have plenty of those. TNG ends with that kind of episode. But a whole season erased, or two in what you are proposing, would just be insulting the viewers. It would be worse than Bobby Ewing's return in Dallas...
    I agree. It would suck phenomenally if a franchise just decided to alter the timeline somehow, erase a good chunk of canon, and introduce a whole new universe with a different continuity.

    Thankfully Star Trek would never do that. Never.

  18. #1578
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    So fucking awful lol

    Just awful as always....nothing like designing a suit that can travel anywhere and any time 30 years before TOS, doesn't this make the spore drive obsolete? Oh wait this is Discovery, it has no sense of logic at all.

  19. #1579
    wow was surprised when was Pike going down there instead of Burnham

    then i understood why, on the 31 ship she was able to have muscle strength against control to avoid being injected but then we see control having so much strength against Spock and even launching him middle air without any problem

    i laughed so much

    Marvel just get Burnham vs Thanos and all be over soon (and some tears from her here and there)

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    So fucking awful lol

    Just awful as always....nothing like designing a suit that can travel anywhere and any time 30 years before TOS, doesn't this make the spore drive obsolete? Oh wait this is Discovery, it has no sense of logic at all.
    29th Century technology makes the NX Warp Drive obsolete too. What's your point?

    I'm glad you continue to watch and enjoy the show. 4Chan won't swat you if you say something nice about it though. There's no need to keep up the tough incel act.

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