Rep grinds for races are horrible

[DarkAmbient]

Yep, the grind is shit and pointless, only introduced as part of Blizzard's "make almost everything in the game take longer" game design philosophy that saw the introduction of Pathfinder, level scaling that buffs mobs resulting in longer time-to-kill, removal of XP potions, nerf to RAF XP bonus, RNG loot and titanforging system that makes it virtually impossible to get absolute best-in-slot without playing seriously unhealthy amounts of time, etc.

[Echoherb]

Should require revered to unlock the races as far as I'm concerned, exalted takes too long, especially for zandalari/kul'tiras.

[Eleccybubb]

Yep, the grind is shit and pointless, only introduced as part of Blizzard's "make almost everything in the game take longer" game design philosophy that saw the introduction of Pathfinder, level scaling that buffs mobs resulting in longer time-to-kill, removal of XP potions, nerf to RAF XP bonus, RNG loot and titanforging system that makes it virtually impossible to get absolute best-in-slot without playing seriously unhealthy amounts of time, etc.

Jesus I forgot they nerfed RAF XP. How desperate.....

[Darththeo]

And people who stopped playing during Legion? Just using the word "entitlement" doesn't make you right, smart, or unentitled. It's bad game design. It doesn't make sense from a lore perspective. And it isn't fun. Games are supposed to be fun, right? I don't think it makes one entitled to want their game to be fun...

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I don't think you know what standard fair means. First of all, this is the first time new races were locked in this game. So not standard for WoW. And this is the first time I have seen new races locked in any MMO (I haven't played them all so maybe it does happen?) ... so definitely not standard in the industry.

Also, during the story I am straight TOLD that the Zandalari stand with the horde. And then... I still can't play one because I need help a few hundred more turtles make it to the sea (or not make it to the sea).

The rep grind is incredibly easy. It doesn't take a long time. But these are not arguments for bad game-play that supports neither lore nor fun.

I don't think you understand the term "standard fair."

"Why do I need to rep grind for this mount AND purchase it? You people already love me!"
"Wait why do I need to do MORE to get this appearance alternative unlock from MY artifact ... just give me it!"

Races just didn't fall under that before, now they do. The races were an exception rather than a rule. Now they follow the rule, hence now fall in line with the standard.

[shise]

It is probably as easier as it has ever been, except in WotLK when it was just given away.

This is easy, you can calculate right ahead, form the start, how long exactly it will take you.

Once you hit lvl 110 you are revered, so you just need 21K rep. Doing the world quests every day plus extra bonus and the follower quests when they are up, all in all it takes about a month.

And you can rise multiple at the same time.


What is so bad about it? One month of effort to reach exalted in a year and a half/ 2 years long expansion.. is not even that bad, plus you only have to do it all once, unlike in the past.

[rhorle]

Should require revered to unlock the races as far as I'm concerned, exalted takes too long, especially for zandalari/kul'tiras.

Not really. My horde alt has 1 day of play time at level 120. And is almost revered with Zandalari. You just got to know where to spend your time. Do invasions. Do missions. Do world quests that give rep. You can ignore the rest. Stuff doesn't have to be instant to be good. If you have been playing since the launch you would have at least one unlocked. (Horde or Alliance main).

[Echoherb]

Not really. My horde alt has 1 day of play time at level 120. And is almost revered with Zandalari. You just got to know where to spend your time. Do invasions. Do missions. Do world quests that give rep. You can ignore the rest. Stuff doesn't have to be instant to be good. If you have been playing since the launch you would have at least one unlocked. (Horde or Alliance main).

If you're almost revered, then you still have a very long way to go to unlocking Zandalari. Getting rep with honorbound was a lot easier. I still think revered should be required, not exalted. It's plenty of time and effort involved in unlocking a race imo.

[rhorle]

If you're almost revered, then you still have a very long way to go to unlocking Zandalari.

And? It still doesn't take that long for exalted. My alt isn't even done with all of the quests that give rep. It takes time yes. But it isn't that long or that bad.

[Taeldorian]

Don't bother. ActiBli$$ shills will defend this which is basically taking a day 1 box core feature and timegating it to their dying breath. You'll probably have Felpleb who is one of the worst in this thread later giving you an essay on how you are wrong, they are right and WoW is the greatest game ever.

Disgusting attitude and this whole "ActiBlizz do no wrong" is the reason WoW is in the state it's in and haemorrhaging subs.

Honestly mate. They don't care about giving you a quality experience anymore. They haven't done for years. They just care how much money they can squeeze out of it for the ActiBlizz shareholders and Kotick so he can buy a yacht. I mean they proudly harp on about how they had record sales and then fire 800 people.

Honestly if you want an MMO with a dev team that respects you as a player, makes a game for you, a great community and whatnot come to FF14 or ESO. It's where most of the players quitting are going.

Yeah no not really. FF14 has a ton of issues itself. It has its own content droughts, it has an insanely long story which you can also buy a skip for (lol?), it has fairly slow combat, a really clunky glamour system imo, a fucking horrible storage system, etc. I could go on forever. I’m not sure about the devs caring or not but stop advertising FF14, it’s shit. Let me guess though, you’ll come at me and scream “that’s not true its just your opinion!!!”. Can’t wait for the hypocrisy.

You’ve talked about twitch numbers in relation to WoW but not FF14. FF14 has much less interest and I wonder why. The most popular streamer holds like 500-1k views (he’s fun to watch though imo) whereas less popular pvp streamers in WoW hold that much. I’ve played both. I’ve already talked plenty about WoW in other threads but FF14 isn’t any better. It has garbage design in other ways.

OT: I’d say wow has a ton of issues but rep grinding for an allied race isn’t one of them. I do think rep grinding itself needs to have way more options like running dungeons with a tabard, WQs, BGs with a tabard, etc. Grinding in WoW feels restrictive because it’s usually limited to 1 activity. AP for example is limited to islands and world quests, in legion it was raids/m+/WQ. Not to mention that islands are basically instanced world quests which is even worse.

There needs to be more ways to grind imo. For AP let players grind it from Dungeons, WQs, islands, BGs, etc. For reputation it can be the same thing. That way if you get bored of islands you can at least do m+ or BGs to cool down. Now if you get bored of world quests you can go do islands which are basically world quests.

[Eleccybubb]

Yeah no not really. FF14 has a ton of issues itself. It has its own content droughts, it has an insanely long story which you can also buy a skip for (lol?), it has fairly slow combat, a really clunky glamour system imo, a fucking horrible storage system, etc. I could go on forever. I’m not sure about the devs caring or not but stop advertising FF14, it’s shit. Let me guess though, you’ll come at me and scream “that’s not true its just your opinion!!!”. Can’t wait for the hypocrisy.

Nope.

I actually agree on the glamour system. It's garbage and the dresser barely improves the situation as you need to be in a city to use it. If you could at least use it on the go and it had more storage space then it would solve one of the huge issues with glamour. But I have way more than 200 items so it doesn't help me much.

£18 for a story skip. Unlike the £49 boost in WoW. They actually know how to value them. The total cost to skip the story and boost to 60 is still cheaper than WoW overall. A boost imo is not worth more than DMC 5 or Resident Evil 2. I don't personally agree with the boost in any game but I mean at least Sqaure aren't charging an arm and leg for it. However. Their Mogstation is severely more bloated for a cosmetic cash shop which I've even agreed with another poster on.

Slow combat I kind of agree with. I don't mind how it is but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I've had friends who were turned off by it and I get why people dislike it. Imo it gets a bit better with certain melees but that's about it. The GCD should be 1 second max.

Storage system again I agree. And they charge extra for more which again I think is pretty crappy. Although the saddlebag kind of helps which they added recently but barely.

So no I'm not going to scream "it's just your opinion reeeeee". I'm going to respect your opinion because you brought up some very good critique. No game is immune from criticism. And FF14 is one of them despite being imo the best MMO on the modern market. So please don't pull the "hypocrisy" card because I actually agree with at least 3/4 of the critique you presented.

Also I'm not advertising it. I'm just simply stating that there are products out there for people who are clearly frustrated with WoW. I'm sorry you see it that way but I'm not editing my style of posting to appease to some random person on the internet.

You’ve talked about twitch numbers in relation to WoW but not FF14. FF14 has much less interest and I wonder why. The most popular streamer holds like 500-1k views (he’s fun to watch though imo) whereas less popular pvp streamers in WoW hold that much. I’ve played both. I’ve already talked plenty about WoW in other threads but FF14 isn’t any better. It has garbage design in other ways.

Really? We are gonna start judging a games popularity off streamer numbers? You know perfectly well there are high pop/popular games with low viewer numbers. Also as for Twitch numbers for WoW all I've mentioned as of late is how a majority were multiple Method streams which does kind of gauge the numbers a bit when it's basically the same guild streaming the same world first race just from a different player perspective.

ESO doesn't have amazing Twitch numbers. But last I recall it was mentioned they have 2.5-3 mil active monthly players. A prime example of Twitch does not = popularity. Warframe would be another good example.

[Fetus Rex]

Yes, it is fucky doo boring. I liked the times when we just purchased expansion to play race we wanted.

[Taeldorian]

Nope.

I actually agree on the glamour system. It's garbage and the dresser barely improves the situation as you need to be in a city to use it. If you could at least use it on the go and it had more storage space then it would solve one of the huge issues with glamour. But I have way more than 200 items so it doesn't help me much.

£18 for a story skip. Unlike the £49 boost in WoW. They actually know how to value them. The total cost to skip the story and boost to 60 is still cheaper than WoW overall. A boost imo is not worth more than DMC 5 or Resident Evil 2. I don't personally agree with the boost in any game but I mean at least Sqaure aren't charging an arm and leg for it. However. Their Mogstation is severely more bloated for a cosmetic cash shop which I've even agreed with another poster on.

Slow combat I kind of agree with. I don't mind how it is but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I've had friends who were turned off by it and I get why people dislike it. Imo it gets a bit better with certain melees but that's about it. The GCD should be 1 second max.

Storage system again I agree. And they charge extra for more which again I think is pretty crappy. Although the saddlebag kind of helps which they added recently but barely.

So no I'm not going to scream "it's just your opinion". I'm going to respect your opinion because you brought up some very good critique. No game is immune from criticism. And FF14 is one of them despite being imo the best MMO on the modern market.

Also I'm not advertising it. I'm just simply stating that there are products out there for people who are clearly frustrated with WoW. I'm sorry you see it that way but I'm not editing my style of posting to appease to some random person on the internet.

Slow down there. I never asked you to edit your style, no reason to do that. Everyone has an opinion to share whether I disagree with it or not, doesn’t really matter to me how they share it.

I would’ve loved to get into FF14 but as I said there’s just as many problems they just come in different forms. I also dislike the raiding in FF14 but I think that’s strictly subjective. It goes hand in hand with the boring combat though. I agree with a lot about what’s wrong with WoW currently (even a lot of the stuff you’ve posted) I just disagree with saying FF14 is better. It isn’t for me at least but I understand plenty like it.

Anyway yeah, as I said before grinding in WoW is pretty horrible but only because there’s no variety. For AP right now it’s just Islands or World quests and they’re both boring as fuck. They’re practically the same shit with islands just being instanced world quests. Rep grinding is literally just world quests (aside from leveling). Of course the grind would be disliked when it’s this limiting.

They should allow the rep grind to come from multiple forms of content such as: BGs, m+/dungeons, world quests, story quests. They should allow the AP grind to come from: BGs, M+, world quests, islands. This opens up a lot more variety as opposed to just having 1 way to grind.

[Eleccybubb]

Slow down there. I never asked you to edit your style, no reason to do that. Everyone has an opinion to share whether I disagree with it or not, doesn’t really matter to me how they share it.

I would’ve loved to get into FF14 but as I said there’s just as many problems they just come in different forms. I also dislike the raiding in FF14 but I think that’s strictly subjective. It goes hand in hand with the boring combat though.

Anyway yeah, as I said before grinding in WoW is pretty horrible but only because there’s no variety. For AP right now it’s just Islands or World quests and they’re both boring as fuck. They’re practically the same shit with islands just being instanced world quests. Rep grinding is literally just world quests (aside from leveling). Of course the grind would be disliked when it’s this limiting.

They should allow the rep grind to come from multiple forms of content such as: BGs, m+/dungeons, world quests, story quests. They should allow the AP grind to come from: BGs, M+, world quests, islands. This opens up a lot more variety as opposed to just having 1 way to grind.

The problem with AP is it's just another one of those things they stretch out to timegate. Otherwise the AK would be weekly permanently and not whenever they felt like it. Until there is a huge shift within Blizzard or Activision go I don't see them straying from this "time played" metric/philosophy.

And I agree on the rep grind. 75 per WQ is pitiful when Legion ones were awarding 75, 150 and 250 or w/e depending on the quality of said quest.

The problem with BFA isn't that it lacks content either. It's that the content it has is mediocre imo. Quantity over quality never works imo unless said quantity has quality to it.

And this kind of content will continue to be developed as they know sadly it works. On top of shovelling whatever they can onto the store. I've never seen MTX added faster during an expansion before.

[Taeldorian]

The problem with AP is it's just another one of those things they stretch out to timegate. Otherwise the AK would be weekly permanently and not whenever they felt like it. Until there is a huge shift within Blizzard or Activision go I don't see them straying from this "time played" metric/philosophy.

And I agree on the rep grind. 75 per WQ is pitiful when Legion ones were awarding 75, 150 and 250 or w/e depending on the quality of said quest.

The problem with BFA isn't that it lacks content either. It's that the content it has is mediocre imo. Quantity over quality never works imo unless said quantity has quality to it.

I very much agree with that. I’m not a huge fan of AP in general but I can live with it if the grind is manageable. My main problem with the game right now is the entire outdoor world being a slot machine and the game itself feeling like an MMOARPG. Season 2 completely invalidated season 1 because they have to keep doing these crazy ilvl jumps to prevent raid groups from outgearing the next raid due to the RNG gearing systems. I hate that shit more than anything honestly. Legion managed AP much better and the patches actually felt like part of a whole expansion as opposed to a completely separate thing we have now. Legendaries/AP allowed people to farm older raids all expansion along with all levels of mythic+. We don’t have that at all anymore, it’s just islands/WQs or bust which is shit.

Regardless of that, yeah most of the new content added isn’t good. Islands are just so damn awful especially when you’ve done a ton of world quests. It’s basically repeating the same process. Class design is also at a low imo for a lot of classes because they removed so much shit from legion and didn’t really work on classes much. I spent a good portion of beta discussing my spec/class. This doesn’t help either when it comes to rep grinds because 1. If your class is boring you just won’t have fun doing it and 2. If the grindable content is awful then people would rather just quit.

In legion we had more options. We had m+ and you could farm any level from 5-15 and it’d be worth it, we had WQs and we had raids for AP grinding. Legendaries also helped keep content relevant and as much as I hated them I’d like to see something with that impact again (that isn’t completely RNG). For rep they could easily just add rep grinding to dungeons/BGs and people would probably be more content.

[Echoherb]

And? It still doesn't take that long for exalted. My alt isn't even done with all of the quests that give rep. It takes time yes. But it isn't that long or that bad.

Longer than it needs to be to unlock a race. Revered would make a lot more sense and would make it far less grindy. In fact I'd be money on them changing it to revered eventually.

[rhorle]

And this kind of content will continue to be developed as they know sadly it works. On top of shovelling whatever they can onto the store. I've never seen MTX added faster during an expansion before.

You keep posting this in various places. It just isn't true. They are not adding tons of stuff to the store. they certainly are not doing it faster then before.

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Longer than it needs to be to unlock a race. Revered would make a lot more sense and would make it far less grindy. In fact I'd be money on them changing it to revered eventually.

So how long does a race need to take. What is the universal standard for race unlocks? It isn't going anywhere. While it certainly could be lowered it doesn't need to be.

[Baleful]

How is hard or even grindy? I already received 6 zandalari chests (60k+ rep) since chests went out, and i am only doing 4 WQs for daily emmisary. That's enough to get the reputation to exalted almost 2 times yet you are here crying because getting only 1 time to exalted which takes only few time and no effort is super grindy. People already forgot how much important things used to be gated behind reputations, like enchants, jewelry patterns and much more that where MANDATORY if you took the game any serious.

[darklogrus]

Longer than it needs to be to unlock a race. Revered would make a lot more sense and would make it far less grindy. In fact I'd be money on them changing it to revered eventually.

Honestly, completing a zones story arc should be more then enough to unlock the race. But needing to grind another 27k rep is kinda lame, especially when we only avg around 500rep a day..

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Having sub-races as rep grinds is completely fine with me. By the time they're even released I already have the requirements completed. Sounds like some people are just lazy.

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because wow is bleeding players and not attracting any new ones.

And that isn't because of sub-races.

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Don't bother. ActiBli$$ shills

Oh no, not those boggiemen you're so afraid of.

[Lollis]

If you'd have done the occasional quest out in the world instead of sitting afk in Boralus then you would already be exalted with everyone.

All of a sudden you need the reps and you are annoyed about how your lack of activity over the last 7 and a half months means you have to grind them to catch up? Poor you.

Exalted 7th Legion: 29/08/18 = 15 Days
Exalted Proudmoore: 19/09/18 = 36 Days
Exalted Champions: 21/09/18 = 38 Days
Exalted Order of Embers: 28/09/18 = 45 Days
Exalted Storms Wake: 02/10/18 = 49 Days
Exalted Tortollen Seekers: 07/10/18 = 54 Days

It took me less than 2 months to 'grind' all reps to exalted before Assaults were added which give you extra rep, you have had plenty of time to plod along at your own pace but you didn't and it is now biting you in the ass.

Use the Darkmoon faire buff when it is available, use contract for Tortollen.