[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

It is in no way the EU's fault. The EU has 4 founding pillars. They are never going to be taken away because to take away just one for anyone basically ends the EU. It's like telling the US to basically destroy their consitution for a breakaway state. They will not do it as it would basically destroy the US. The EU side of the situation was that this was a legal process and allow the UK to come up with something that would be acceptable to the EU (doesn't break the 4 pillars) and the UK (Also known as May's suicidal red lines).

Things like the backstop came from whitehall not brussels, strasbourg, berlin, paris, whatever. It was something May brought up. Everything within the agreement basically came from the UK side of things and the EU basically made sure it doesn't break the 4 pillars. That was it. Since from their pov this is a legal process not a negotiation.

The negotiation part comes next, regardless if there's a deal or not. Because everyone needs to know the state of where each country/region is before they begin true negotiations.

This is an adequate description and also correctly points out the misunderstandings of the EU that is prevalent in the UK. About all of it. About what the EU does, how it works, what the core of the EU is, what they plainly told the UK (yes, the UK didn't listen... and it shows).

Without checking it... go to the UK parliament's Youtube channel, watch the latest debate (or live even), watch them pretend they're still in a negotiation. Watch them talk about trade deals when the EU hasn't even said one thing about future trade relations. Watch them act as if they can still go to the EU and change the terms that have been chiselled in stone back in November.

I mean, let's assume for a freak second the HoC isn't full of clowns in a very bad comedy skit... let's assume they actually manage to agree to anything that isn't no-deal, no-Brexit or May's deal. Whatever it is they come up with, will get kicked back from Brussels. All the deals they have on the table, regardless of their political support, are so way not magic enough for the EU to reconsider anything.

[Mayhem]

It was a very simple point. Proportional representation allowed a large number of neo-nazis into the German parliament.

Good thing you're banned most of the time because you can't even follow a discussion containing only 4 posts.

[Acidz]

So yet another extension it seems??

[Elegiac]

Hasn't been granted yet. And she is not asking for a long extension. All I am reading is she thinks she can bully Corbyn into whipping Labour to sign her deal.

It's like she wasn't even listening when Bercow ruled on bringing the same piece of legislation up for vote repeatedly.

Corbyn and May both need to be exiled to Belfast and replaced.

[Vermented]

So yet another extension it seems??

The UK will get 1 final extension until 22 may, the day before the EU elections.

[Elegiac]

That's really mean to Belfast.

NI inflicted us with the DUP so I'm none too happy with it at present.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Hasn't been granted yet. And she is not asking for a long extension. All I am reading is she thinks she can bully Corbyn into whipping Labour to sign her deal.

She is just re-phrasing the trap that was there before - requesting an extension beyond April 12th and refusing to consider the UK participating in EU elections means that from April 13th onwards our choices are May's deal or no deal, and nothing else.

Bringing the useful idiot Corbyn into the picture is just a means to legitimise locking the UK into those two choices, if Labour refuse to go along with it then she also has the option to blame them for the effects of no deal.

Ideally the EU makes UK participation in the election (or at least preparation for participation) a condition of any second extension.

[Dizzeeyooo]

it's a trick to try and share more responsibility for this failure with Labour so when No Deal and the inevitable GE come they can point fingers at Corbyn.

You anticipated my edit

[Kronik85]

Imo it's a trick to try and share more responsibility for this failure with Labour so when No Deal and the inevitable GE come they can point fingers at Corbyn.

Probably. Both May and Corbyn by this stage should be persuing a CU but since May will just want to push her deal and Corbyn wouldn't mind a crash out then I have no doubt this will be unproductive politicing. When it comes to negotiating with anyone inside the HoC then May is about as bad faith as you can get.

[Elegiac]

Also there is the very critical failure of May NOT making this as a joint statement with Corbyn. She has shown zero interest so far with working with anyone, has completely sidelined the opposition and is now expecting to come to an agreement with Corbyn and presents that he will come to the table willing to work with her as fact to the EU? The utter arrogance.

I mean, let's be real here; May still doesn't seem to have gotten the news that she isn't leading a majority government anymore.

[Elegiac]

Even if she was, this is clearly an act of bad faith on her part which signals to the EU that her "negotiations" with Corbyn are a sham for her local political gain.

I think there's been a delusion on the part of the past few Prime Ministers that they are in a position similar to that of the President of the US.

The problem is the US system is explicitly designed to account for a semi-antagonistic relationship between its branches, whereas the UK isn't. Being an effective PM in a parliamentary country is a function of consensus building, so when the PM loses control of Parliament it never ends well.

[ati87]

Ah May....since the very start the only course she took was going further to the right and now she wants labour support.

Since ofc the EU won't renegotiate the deal the idea probably is to get some Labour votes to pass her own deal.....but with Labour support.

[Elegiac]

Ah May....since the very start the only course she took was going further to the right and now she wants labour support.

Since ofc the EU won't renegotiate the deal the idea probably is to get some Labour votes to pass her own deal.....but with Labour support.

If she wants to fob off the blame on someone else why doesn't she just call another referendum, lol.

[Elegiac]

I think it has more to do with internal party struggles than with the system itself. Cameron's idiocy was entirely a pissing match so he could keep the Tory leadership.

And now both May and Corbyn are doing the same thing.

The British government is in *dire* need of reform.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it has more to do with internal party struggles than with the system itself. Cameron's idiocy was entirely a pissing match so he could keep the Tory leadership.

All over the developed world, traditional center left and right parties are facing pressure from the far sides because of how much they botched things after the Recession. It was very few countries that handled the entire debacle well (I'd say the US and Germany, with a few smaller economies that managed to bounce back, not counting places like Ireland that bounced back by exploiting others through tax practices). So the parties are trying to redefine themselves and this causes crisis of leadership everywhere.
It doesn't help that we the people have no consensus on what we want either.

I can see it, thought it honestly doesn't explain Australia; it made it fine out of the financial crisis and the government is still staffed by idiots.

[LeGin Tufnel]

So, she's saying she wants the withdrawal agreement part of her deal kept intact but wants to "agree a plan" with Corbyn on the "future relationship"?

This won't achieve anything. Both parties are still divided internally. They can whip away all they like, how's it going to make any difference? Unless what they agree re. the future relationship has a majority across both parties and is legally binding, it means diddly squat. A blind Brexit would very much suit both leaders but I don't see how they could get this through without fracturing their parties. Also, there will always be a hardcore of Leavers who will vote against the withdrawal agreement come what may because they want a hard Brexit.

The fact remains that parliament needs to agree on something re. future relationship; be it Customs Union, Common Market 2.0, whatever and make it legally binding. Or agree to a second ref.

And they need to do this before April 12, or there will be absolutely no reason for the EU to grant a further extension.

Or we crash out.

I hope that if May fulfils her veiled GE threat, the EU don't allow this as a reason to extend. It'll solve absolutely nothing.

This stinks of May trying to push the cliff edge further down the line.

[ati87]

If she wants to fob off the blame on someone else why doesn't she just call another referendum, lol.

Referendum is a shit choice it's what created this April 1e joke to begin with.
A new snap election would also create huge mess

The bravest action May can take is to just cancel article 50 and tell her MP's that want a hard brexit to sod off. She would be probably be removed as party leader but at this point trying to pass the same deal for the 4th or 5th time is getting a bid sad.

[Elegiac]

Referendum is a shit choice it's was created this April 1e joke to begin with.

A confirmatory referendum has been floated around since 2016, so no. And it would finally put the "we need to do what the people voted for so NO DEAL" myth to bed.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Referendum is a shit choice it's was created this April 1e joke to begin with.
A new snap election would also create huge mess

The bravest action May can take is to just cancel article 50 and tell her MP's that want a hard brexit to sod off. She would be probably be removed as party leader but at this point trying to pass the same deal for the 4th or 5th time is getting a bid sad.

She's not going to revoke A50.

GE is far more likely, and it will solve nothing.

[Elegiac]

I just saw a hunter who named his poor Hati "Brexit" . . .
It was in an assault so I just killed Brexit!

Doing the lord's work, my friend. :bless:

[ati87]

She's not going to revoke A50.

GE is far more likely, and it will solve nothing.

Like I said the brave thing