Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[cubby]

Even Trump's collusion hasn't been disproven. There's a reason he picked someone who cleaned up the Iran-Contra scandal for AG. Barr is Trump's new fixer and until congress gets the full unredacted report I wouldn't believe anything that Barr says. I wonder why the White House has done a 180 on wanting to see the Mueller report...

Good point. And yeah, I think labeling Barr as his new fixer is spot on. Trump had Cohen when he was a private citizen, but now he can use the entire Department of Justice as his fixer.

Lol re the 180 as well. McConnell is definitely getting tired of Trump. When McConnell realizes that Trump is going to cost him the Majority Leader seat, that will be the end of the support.

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probly cause he's running out of senators that are willing to block the vote while he was saying release it

people are getting tired playing a fool and falling on their sword for him...well people with things to lose anyways

Agreed. The GOP got what they wanted and are now seriously looking at losing not only the White House, but the Senate as well. With those gone in 2020 the Dems will run the circuit (that's not the right word is it?) on their legislative agenda, and the GOP will be fucked.

[Theodarzna]

Why because I stated a fact you don't like?

If he's innocent, great, show me. Until then I'm not taking your compromised word on it.

I await you stating a fact in the first place.

[Ripster42]

I await you stating a fact in the first place.

Says the person who has spouted nonsense this entire thread, when faced with the facts, came up with what is essentially a NO U! response. Grats theo, really keeping things right on track with your standard behavior.

[Rysthruun]

Career prosecutors follow the law.

If you think the investigation is finished, why are there still investigations going in at least 4 districts? EDNY, SDNY, EDVA, and main justice (let alone mueller's investigation... still ongoing)?

Yeah, sure, if there's no evidence, it will make trump look better, which is why he and his ag are so intent on releasing it.

You obviously do care, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. You're just full of shit.

Except when it comes to leaking details about their investigations which led to 2+ years of this

https://youtu.be/qjUvfZj-Fm0

The Russia investigation is done. Mueller was empaneled to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election. The summary directly quoted Muller in the report and I don't see Muller saying otherwise. The other investigations are likely financial in nature but have nothing to do with the 2016 election, Russian interference or Russian collusion. The grand jury is still active because their are still active cases like roger stone etc.

It's also possible that they are redacting the report so their isn't collateral damage to the intel community and it's sources and methods, grand jury, etc. You need to come back to reality and take off the tin foil hat. Release the binds and remove the gag on your voice of reason. Not everything is a Russian conspiracy or duplicitous scheme. If you are going to go off that ledge you have to have a good reason to jump. Having a meltdown because the report isn't being released by some arbitrary deadline versus the deadline set by the AG is not that reason. You need to un-tilt yourself.

Telling you I don't care isn't some sort subtle way of me saying I do. Do you have this problem when girls tell you no?

[Ripster42]

Except when it comes to leaking details about their investigations which led to 2+ years of this

https://youtu.be/qjUvfZj-Fm0

The Russia investigation is done. Mueller was empaneled to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election. The summary directly quoted Muller in the report and I don't see Muller saying otherwise. The other investigations are likely financial in nature but have nothing to do with the 2016 election, Russian interference or Russian collusion. The grand jury is still active because their are still active cases like roger stone etc.

It's also possible that they are redacting the report so their isn't collateral damage to the intel community and it's sources and methods, grand jury, etc. You need to come back to reality and take off the tin foil hat. Release the binds and remove the gag on your voice of reason. Not everything is a Russian conspiracy or duplicitous scheme. If you are going to go off that ledge you have to have a good reason to jump. Having a meltdown because the report isn't being released by some arbitrary deadline versus the deadline set by the AG is not that reason. You need to un-tilt yourself.

Telling you I don't care isn't some sort subtle way of me saying I do. Do you have this problem when girls tell you no?

I already linked you to the fact that the grand jury is still ongoing. If the grand jury is still ongoing, how is the investigation done?

The "leaks" either came from inside trump's office or through "speaking indictments." One is just trump's shitshow, the other aren't leaks. They're just legal filings. Get a clue.

Again, the judge can make the decision to release grand jury testimony regardless of whether or not it exposes sources or methods if they believe it is in the public interest. The respective congressional committees, no matter what, are also entitled to see the unredacted report, whether or not it exposes sources or methods. What is a russian conspiracy, is meeting to discuss the terms of an agreement with the quid pro quo being us foreign relations for help with the election, and then those two terms of the deal coming into being. We know the russians helped trump with the election. We know trump, just this year, has started to relax sanctions. Repeating GOP talking points almost verbatim really goes well with your #walkaway. Grow up.

Again, you telling people your supposed political persuasion means you do care whether or not they associate you in some way, or you wouldn't have said it.

[BlackwingHecate]

I know, hardly seems like any time compared to people who still haven't gotten over Benghazi and were banging on about it as late as last year.

It's like the bevy of indictments and testimony that establishes; yes, Donald Trump is more than likely a crook by virtue of sheer circumstantial evidence. A crook, or so oblivious of his inner circles' doings that he probably isn't fit to lead a chain gang much less a country.

I saw a guy on the bus the other day wearing a "Bengazi: Never forget" shirt on. It was really weird.

[Rysthruun]

I already linked you to the fact that the grand jury is still ongoing. If the grand jury is still ongoing, how is the investigation done?

The "leaks" either came from inside trump's office or through "speaking indictments." One is just trump's shitshow, the other aren't leaks. They're just legal filings. Get a clue.

Again, the judge can make the decision to release grand jury testimony regardless of whether or not it exposes sources or methods if they believe it is in the public interest. The respective congressional committees, no matter what, are also entitled to see the unredacted report, whether or not it exposes sources or methods. What is a russian conspiracy, is meeting to discuss the terms of an agreement with the quid pro quo being us foreign relations for help with the election, and then those two terms of the deal coming into being. We know the russians helped trump with the election. We know trump, just this year, has started to relax sanctions. Repeating GOP talking points almost verbatim really goes well with your #walkaway. Grow up.

Again, you telling people your supposed political persuasion means you do care whether or not they associate you in some way, or you wouldn't have said it.

Grand Jury is still active because their are still on going cases. Again, Roger Stone is an example. While the case is active, releasing the entire report could jeopardize any case in trial or pre-trial. The grand jury will remain until the affairs of Muellers investigation are in their disposition phase. Cases handed off to state prosecutors are separate from any federal investigation. States are capable of empaneling their own grand jury's.

It's certainly probable and likely quite a few leaks came from the white house. I have yet to see where that has been confirmed. I'm not talking about those, I'm talking about pre-empitive leaks to the media that shaped the coverage of the investigation the last 2 years and resulted in that video. I'm talking about leaks no one else would know about besides Muellers inner circle or their staff.

A judge certainly could. He/She would have to weigh doing long standing damage to the investigatory bodies, intel community, sources, methods, pave the way for an appeal and re-trial for any active case being tried by the grand jury, open up the grand jurors to harassment and media scrutiny, while simultaneously potentially releasing exculpatory evidence vs waiting 2-3 weeks for the report to be redacted and then at that time weighing the public interest against what hasn't been released. If these are GOP talking points, then they are logical and rational ones. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I agree with you the Trump tower meeting is suspicious to say the least. However, the statute for conspiracy is very clear, broad, and has an extremely low threshold.

Telling my tax accountant I'm not going to pay taxes is an example of how low this threshold is

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

Despite what we know about the meeting 19 lawyers who were assisted by a team of approximately 40 FBI agents, intelligence analysts, forensic accountants, and other professional staff didn't find evidence that surpassed that threshold by a reasonable doubt despite the Special Counsel issuing more than 2,800 subpoenas, executing nearly 500 search warrants, obtaining more than 230 orders for communication records, issuing almost 50 orders authorizing use of pen registers, making 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence, and interviewing approximately 500 witnesses in conjunction with any potential evidence acquired during the counter intelligence investigation prior to SC Muellers appointment.

Seek professional help for your assaholism

Also, No means no Ripster.Suddenly, it doesn't seem that ironic your handle is slang for rapist.

[Bodakane]

I await you stating a fact in the first place.

Mueller wasn't allowed to indict Trump. Fact.

[Shalcker]

Mueller wasn't allowed to indict Trump. Fact.

In the same way as Barr is not allowed to release full report... he could do it, but it would be against DoJ guidelines.

[Shalcker]

It's actually at his discretion to release the full report or not, so long as he complies with applicable legal restrictions.

And the same is true for Mueller indictment.

[Shalcker]

What are you talking about?

Just like Barr is allowed to release full unredacted report, so did Mueller was allowed to indict sitting president.

It isn't forbidden by any law - wherever president can be indicted was never decided by courts. It simply goes against current DoJ guidelines (as would releasing unredacted report).

[Shalcker]

Except releasing the full report doesn't go against DoJ guidelines.

It does though. Plenty of mentions why upthread - grand jury, interference with ongoing investigations and court cases, and so on.

[Shalcker]

You realize I never said public release... right? There's a subtle difference there that is massive.

Most other releases go through same redactions.

[Citizen T]

Lol re the 180 as well. McConnell is definitely getting tired of Trump. When McConnell realizes that Trump is going to cost him the Majority Leader seat, that will be the end of the support.

It's pretty much too late at this point. If Trump loses in the Presidential election, the Senate is gone as well. I cannot imagine any scenario where this wouldn't be true. McConnell pretty much has to support him at this point unless he does something so spectacularly stupid that not only would the House impeach him, but all of the Republicans would turn on him as well in the Senate.

[Frusciante]

Even Trump's collusion hasn't been disproven. There's a reason he picked someone who cleaned up the Iran-Contra scandal for AG. Barr is Trump's new fixer and until congress gets the full unredacted report I wouldn't believe anything that Barr says. I wonder why the White House has done a 180 on wanting to see the Mueller report...

Another conspiracy theory? Check. The new FIXER!! OMG!

They said no collusion in the 4 page memo. But you want to see the report right? Well Mueller is helping with the redactions. You'll see it soon enough. If what William Barr said was wrong don't you think Mueller would come out and set the record straight? I mean this is the god king that you guys worshiped for two years and now you're turning on him. The spin is out of control.

Trust me - You'll find nothing in the report that says collusion or obstruction. What we will find is a bunch of other stories that the media will run with and help you on your quest to hate Trump more. It's kind of like Trump said in his tweet:

"There is no amount of testimony or document production that can satisfy Jerry Nadler or Shifty Adam Schiff."

He should change that tweet to:

"There is no amount of testimony or document production that can satisfy Jerry Nadler, Shifty Adam Schiff, or the Politics section of MMO-Champion.com's General Off Topic forum."

[Breccia]

McConnell is definitely getting tired of Trump.

Urge...to...be...asshole...too...strong....GAH!

McConnell is definitely getting tired of WINNING.

Aaaaaaaaah so much better.

Yes, as I've suggested on dozens of occasions, McConnell is out of options. He knows that he can't win re-election without the rabid fanbase, regardless of what actually happens. If he turns on Trump, he's out of a job, end of story. Problem is, if he sticks with Trump, and bad things continue to happen -- say, the NRA loses the ability to donate to the GOP, the trade war goes south (HARDY HAR HAR) millions lose health care because of Trump's actions, and the economy sags and buckles under the strain of inflation + no real job/wage growth, all of which are predictable at this point -- he's out of a job then, too. His only option is to stick with Trump like glue and hope a miracle happens -- such as a war with Iran.

But that doesn't mean he likes it.

I donate to food banks, help friends' kids with math homework and contribute sick days to other faculty members because I think it's the right thing to do. I pay my water bill because, if I don't, I don't have water. I'd love to save that $120/3 months to, say, buy a copy of Borderlands 3 and an extra controller. But ain't nobody playing co-op with me when I haven't showered for three months.

And McConnell is noticing that Trump smells a little ripe. Trump hasn't been paying his water bill. McConnell can keep playing on Trump's PS4, but it's getting smellier and smellier in there. He gets to keep playing as the stench intensifies to the point where he's gagging and the stench sticks to his shell...or, he can go home.

[Dome Fossil]

Another conspiracy theory? Check.

Another 15 post burner account from someone that should be banned but is breaking the rules and posting here anyway? Check.

[Frusciante]

Another 15 post burner account from someone that should be banned but is breaking the rules and posting here anyway? Check.

Another burner account accusation that's totally made up and false like the Mueller investigation in? Check.

[Adam Jensen]

Another burner account accusation that's totally made up and false like the Mueller investigation in? Check.

"Totally made up and false."

Multiple indictments and guilty pleas. Russians and Russian meetings among multiple figures of Trump's campaign and the GOP. A mountain of evidence and Barr's own report says Trump is not exonerated. Assuming the Barr report is the truth, then Mueller couldn't get enough to criminally indict Trump himself, but that doesn't mean the whole thing was "totally made up and false." There's plenty of shit in his campaign, and not only that, there's 17 other investigations on going.

[Breccia]

Schiff, while talking about the Mueller subpoena -- oh, right, the HJC voted to subpoena the report if Barr doesn't hand it over of his own free will -- also said Mueller's testimony is mandatory.

I think it’s inevitable that Bob Mueller is going to have to testify before Congress. We’ll have an interest in his testimony or others on the issue of the counterintelligence findings. And the Judiciary Committee, maybe the Oversight Committee as well, might have an interest in other aspects of investigation.

Schiff was quite clear: Mueller found evidence of Russia attacking the election. There were indictments and everything. Mueller's report is a counterintelligence report. Congress needs to see it. End of story.